Scouts as spies
- Thread starter Jame
- Start date
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
If you are using the CT book 'Scouts' This may work. It's an excellant source book for scout bureaucracy and culture.
Otherwise, if useing MT or T4 I'd reccomend rogues or other or Law enforcement and say they are EMPLOYED by the scouts.
likewise with t20, I'd have them do past history in scouts (and thus one level of scout) but Also encourage them to take levels in various other character classes during employment with the IISS
Examples:
Academic or Professional with High computer skills and various hacking feats:
IISS - Data recovery expert.
Professional/Academic with all the engineering and repair feats and high levels of Craft as well as a raft of Technical skills.
Q (as in BOND not TREK
)
Zanrain's Prestige Gambler on top of some Military skills and you've almost got Bond himself.
Which begs the question. How cinematic/gritty are your spies going to be?
Is it Ian Fleming or John LeCarre or Robert Ludlum?
Are we talking Mission Impossible ( the tv series not the movies) or Ronin or the Million Dollar Brain?
This will change the nature of the adventures you run and the skills your players will need.
Are they Agents? covert operatives? or Case officers?
Ie Are they local talent recruited and discarded at need. (These sorts just need the qualications for the job they are holding down as they spy)
or Are they Mission Impossible Navy Seals expert intrusion demolition types?
or are they the guys that plan all this stuff for others to do?
knowing the answers to those questions will help you decide what you need.
Hope this helps.
Otherwise, if useing MT or T4 I'd reccomend rogues or other or Law enforcement and say they are EMPLOYED by the scouts.
likewise with t20, I'd have them do past history in scouts (and thus one level of scout) but Also encourage them to take levels in various other character classes during employment with the IISS
Examples:
Academic or Professional with High computer skills and various hacking feats:
IISS - Data recovery expert.
Professional/Academic with all the engineering and repair feats and high levels of Craft as well as a raft of Technical skills.
Q (as in BOND not TREK
Zanrain's Prestige Gambler on top of some Military skills and you've almost got Bond himself.
Which begs the question. How cinematic/gritty are your spies going to be?
Is it Ian Fleming or John LeCarre or Robert Ludlum?
Are we talking Mission Impossible ( the tv series not the movies) or Ronin or the Million Dollar Brain?
This will change the nature of the adventures you run and the skills your players will need.
Are they Agents? covert operatives? or Case officers?
Ie Are they local talent recruited and discarded at need. (These sorts just need the qualications for the job they are holding down as they spy)
or Are they Mission Impossible Navy Seals expert intrusion demolition types?
or are they the guys that plan all this stuff for others to do?
knowing the answers to those questions will help you decide what you need.
Hope this helps.
I intend them to be more realistic (kinda Bond-like, but not blowing cover), and I'd start them off when just beginning it, with real low-level stuff (this is not only my first time running spies but my first time Refereeing, so I need some pointers with that, too). Initially, I'm not planning to give them a ship - that's sort of a goal for them (they're members of CotI, so I don't think I should say too much), and a far-off one at that.
Jame,
MTU is very much influenced by Star Wars and my players are revolutionaries trying to incite rebellion. As such, they spend most of their time spying on the Imperials, developing contacts to advance the movement, or acting directly against Imperial military and industrial interests.
In this case, the ex-scout and the ex-merchant are both excellent spies within their realms of experience. The merchant understands the activities of megacorps and the underworld; the scout understands the more military significant intelligence. As a team, they have most of the bases covered.
MTU is very much influenced by Star Wars and my players are revolutionaries trying to incite rebellion. As such, they spend most of their time spying on the Imperials, developing contacts to advance the movement, or acting directly against Imperial military and industrial interests.
In this case, the ex-scout and the ex-merchant are both excellent spies within their realms of experience. The merchant understands the activities of megacorps and the underworld; the scout understands the more military significant intelligence. As a team, they have most of the bases covered.
Father Fletch
SOC-12
You may or may not have access to the excellent GURPS Traveller title; First In http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/firstin/ but it has an extensive write up of all the various missions the scouts run. Among those is surveillance of cultures within and without the Imperium. They make threat assessments, economic forecasts, cultural surveys, resource surveys, and other types of intelligence gathering activities.
In most intel ops in RL it is these types of activities that make up the most part of “spy” work. There are occasional dirty tricks units which do a bit more, and from what you are saying, your team is likely to be doing some of that.
Frankly I do not think you are going out on a limb to form a “spy” mission team from the Scout Service. They have a paramilitary unit called S-3 that performs extractions, targeted WMD capture and destruction, kidnapping….err…I mean “Forcible Vacation Tours” of hostile leaders, etc. etc. etc.
The scouts pride themselves on discretion and select use of force, unlike the Navy which, in the IISS’ estimation, would prefer to solve all problems by nuking them till the glow. Again this supports using scouts for “spy” missions.
Some of the questions you should ask yourself when designing your adventure are:
1. How deep is this team? Are they an asset that has been in place for years and has just been activated to perform a mission due to some emergency? Or are they being infiltrated to perform one job, one deniable job, and then expected to exfiltrate out?
2. What assets are in place where you are sending this team? Are there deep assets in place which may have their cover blown if they help the team too much? Is the team prepared or able to extract a compromised asset? What if the asset has family with her and refuses to leave without them?
3. Is the team limited as to what sanctions they may execute? Intel gathering only? Kill in self-defense only? Destroy data, tools, buildings, resources, individuals, and cities? What would get them in trouble?
4. What is the mission? Does a local Scout administrator generate it? The Navy? A local noble? A sector level noble? The emperor? Who will benefit by its completion and who will loose? This would apply to those on both the “enemy” side as well as the “good guy” side. There are often plots within plots within plots when performing spook work.
As a general rule of thumb you don’t need to answer all the questions I just posed, but you may want to think about them, because your players are likely to ask some wild ass questions as they set out on whatever job you give them.
For GM advice I would give you these sage words, which I cannot remember from whence they came, “Don’t Worry, You Are Doing Better Than You Think!”
What that means is you only need to paint the roughest strokes of an outline, most of your players will fill in the details. Since roleplaying is an effort in cooperative storytelling, and since Joseph Campbell showed, there are common elements to many stories and we all share a common well of experience, your players will be thinking along the same lines as you. The details may be slightly different, but the overall effect is the same. If you are thinking, “Bond,” don’t worry, your players have seen the same films. If you are thinking “Star Wars,” the same thing applies.
For more detailed guides on how to fake it till you make it I would suggest checking out
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In most intel ops in RL it is these types of activities that make up the most part of “spy” work. There are occasional dirty tricks units which do a bit more, and from what you are saying, your team is likely to be doing some of that.
Frankly I do not think you are going out on a limb to form a “spy” mission team from the Scout Service. They have a paramilitary unit called S-3 that performs extractions, targeted WMD capture and destruction, kidnapping….err…I mean “Forcible Vacation Tours” of hostile leaders, etc. etc. etc.
The scouts pride themselves on discretion and select use of force, unlike the Navy which, in the IISS’ estimation, would prefer to solve all problems by nuking them till the glow. Again this supports using scouts for “spy” missions.
Some of the questions you should ask yourself when designing your adventure are:
1. How deep is this team? Are they an asset that has been in place for years and has just been activated to perform a mission due to some emergency? Or are they being infiltrated to perform one job, one deniable job, and then expected to exfiltrate out?
2. What assets are in place where you are sending this team? Are there deep assets in place which may have their cover blown if they help the team too much? Is the team prepared or able to extract a compromised asset? What if the asset has family with her and refuses to leave without them?
3. Is the team limited as to what sanctions they may execute? Intel gathering only? Kill in self-defense only? Destroy data, tools, buildings, resources, individuals, and cities? What would get them in trouble?
4. What is the mission? Does a local Scout administrator generate it? The Navy? A local noble? A sector level noble? The emperor? Who will benefit by its completion and who will loose? This would apply to those on both the “enemy” side as well as the “good guy” side. There are often plots within plots within plots when performing spook work.
As a general rule of thumb you don’t need to answer all the questions I just posed, but you may want to think about them, because your players are likely to ask some wild ass questions as they set out on whatever job you give them.
For GM advice I would give you these sage words, which I cannot remember from whence they came, “Don’t Worry, You Are Doing Better Than You Think!”
What that means is you only need to paint the roughest strokes of an outline, most of your players will fill in the details. Since roleplaying is an effort in cooperative storytelling, and since Joseph Campbell showed, there are common elements to many stories and we all share a common well of experience, your players will be thinking along the same lines as you. The details may be slightly different, but the overall effect is the same. If you are thinking, “Bond,” don’t worry, your players have seen the same films. If you are thinking “Star Wars,” the same thing applies.
For more detailed guides on how to fake it till you make it I would suggest checking out
"Roleplaying Tips Weekly" is provided to you free of charge
by RoleplayingTips.com. It is sent only to those who have
specifically requested to receive it. My subscriber list has
never been and never will be available to any third party.
EVER! Your privacy is very important to me, therefore it
receives the respect it deserves.
SUBSCRIBE TO "ROLEPLAYING TIPS WEEKLY"
RolePlayingTipsWeekly-On@lists.webvalence.com
Jame,
I'm currently running a T20 campaign with a bunch of Farguard Intelligence guys - basically the Farguard is the IISS equivalent for the Julian Protectorate (a large state coreward-trailing of the 3I).
A lot depends upon what sorts of spies they will be. The BBC drama "Spooks" and the American series "24" are both very good for counter-terrorist organisations - IMHO Spooks is better at conveying the realities, 24 is a little too artificially rushed. "Bond"/"00" stuff is more the sort of super-troubleshooter role. For real deep cover stuff you probably need to turn to books - for fun look no further than slippery Jim di Griz, the Stainless Steel Rat!
Important tips are:
1. Give the PCs rules to follow.
2. Give PCs tools of the trade (not just tech, but contacts, covers etc.) before they need them, then let them work out how to use them.
3. Include cross, double-cross and triple-cross - the truth is never clear in the world of spies. Back-stabbing is frequently encountered - but then so are true innocents.
4. Give them important, tangible goals.
5. Give each member of the team a unique asset, skill or background so they can all be useful.
I'm currently running a T20 campaign with a bunch of Farguard Intelligence guys - basically the Farguard is the IISS equivalent for the Julian Protectorate (a large state coreward-trailing of the 3I).
A lot depends upon what sorts of spies they will be. The BBC drama "Spooks" and the American series "24" are both very good for counter-terrorist organisations - IMHO Spooks is better at conveying the realities, 24 is a little too artificially rushed. "Bond"/"00" stuff is more the sort of super-troubleshooter role. For real deep cover stuff you probably need to turn to books - for fun look no further than slippery Jim di Griz, the Stainless Steel Rat!
Important tips are:
1. Give the PCs rules to follow.
2. Give PCs tools of the trade (not just tech, but contacts, covers etc.) before they need them, then let them work out how to use them.
3. Include cross, double-cross and triple-cross - the truth is never clear in the world of spies. Back-stabbing is frequently encountered - but then so are true innocents.
4. Give them important, tangible goals.
5. Give each member of the team a unique asset, skill or background so they can all be useful.
A couple of notes: I'm using CT rules, so T20 is more useful as, say, stats-free reference material. I do have most of the GURPS stuff, so I'll eventually take a look. Also, this is set in a homebrewed setting, so I'd have to work out the conversions (which I have already, I just need to tie them together).
Wait a second... The three characters I have generated consist of one scout, one either merchant or "other" and one military; so what I'm planning is an infiltrate/objective/exfiltrate series of missions; that or make a campaign out of achieveing the plan. Now, I'd need to create that objective (there have been some objectives suggested, thank you, but I'd like to think about this on my own), and figure out how to spin it out into an adventure or a campaign.
The agency they'll be working for is either the primary civilian (which is a section of the scouts, I'm thinking) or one of the military agencies (which just about are the same thing).
Thanks for the advice!
Wait a second... The three characters I have generated consist of one scout, one either merchant or "other" and one military; so what I'm planning is an infiltrate/objective/exfiltrate series of missions; that or make a campaign out of achieveing the plan. Now, I'd need to create that objective (there have been some objectives suggested, thank you, but I'd like to think about this on my own), and figure out how to spin it out into an adventure or a campaign.
The agency they'll be working for is either the primary civilian (which is a section of the scouts, I'm thinking) or one of the military agencies (which just about are the same thing).
Thanks for the advice!
Here's a modification: scouts as general investigators, more like detectives than spies. They're still employed by one of the intelligence agencies, but their duties aren't as "deep cover" as, say, a Bond analog would have. Of course, they may have surprisingly similar duties at times...
Jame,
I think it mostly depends on the player. After all, scouts in literature and history have run the gambit from scientist to surveyor to pathfinder to tactical intel gatherer. Most scouts would naturally gravitate toward one of the above "specialties", depending on circumstance and personality (i.e. player).
Again, even merchants can make good spies given the proper motivation. A smart merchant character can gleen enormous amounts of significant intelligence information from the daily business news! Then there are the industry and professional journals, these hold tremendous amounts of info on technology and the flow of government funds. Following up on these leads could be adventures just as exciting and complex as any tactical mission. Granted, this type is a deviation from the standard Merch character but so is a Scout spy!
I think it mostly depends on the player. After all, scouts in literature and history have run the gambit from scientist to surveyor to pathfinder to tactical intel gatherer. Most scouts would naturally gravitate toward one of the above "specialties", depending on circumstance and personality (i.e. player).
Again, even merchants can make good spies given the proper motivation. A smart merchant character can gleen enormous amounts of significant intelligence information from the daily business news! Then there are the industry and professional journals, these hold tremendous amounts of info on technology and the flow of government funds. Following up on these leads could be adventures just as exciting and complex as any tactical mission. Granted, this type is a deviation from the standard Merch character but so is a Scout spy!
A local scout administrator, reviewing the title of this thread, clinches his fists and pounds on the poduim...
THE SCOUT SERVICE DOES NOT HAVE SPIES! THE IMPERIUM DOES NOT HAVE SPIES! WE DO NOT TOLERATE SUCH THINGS!
then, in a much quiter tone...
the Imperium uses seasoned intelligence agents and operatives to gather and analyze necessary intelligence. The Zhodani, the Solomani, they use spies; the Imperium does not.
THE SCOUT SERVICE DOES NOT HAVE SPIES! THE IMPERIUM DOES NOT HAVE SPIES! WE DO NOT TOLERATE SUCH THINGS!
then, in a much quiter tone...
the Imperium uses seasoned intelligence agents and operatives to gather and analyze necessary intelligence. The Zhodani, the Solomani, they use spies; the Imperium does not.
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
The scouts ARE spies...its the nature of the job...they are tested and trained in All types of survailence...just look at the inel equip on their ships...
spies, spies, spies, i say!!!!!!
spies, spies, spies, i say!!!!!!
Spying? Naw, since the IISS doesn't have spies 'cause isn't an intelligent agen - wait, hey, I was gonna say intelligence agency 'til ya tried to shut me up!
Edit, immidiately after, and I'm still WAIting for some advice on general investigative work. This may be darn close to actual spying, but probably doesn't cross a certain line.
Edit, immidiately after, and I'm still WAIting for some advice on general investigative work. This may be darn close to actual spying, but probably doesn't cross a certain line.
I think it would also depend on what your definition of spy is. If your notion of spy is inspired Ian Flemming then you ought to use the SSS as your main source of inspiration, if your spies are Jon LeCarrie then the Scout service is a convient cover for the actions of the Circus, and if you are inspired by Tom Clancy, naturally you meet somewhere in the middle and the gearhead players will have a field day with FF&S.
For me, spies do exist in various agencies, the function of the intelligence gathering in the 3i is largely in the hands of INI, as they have access to Starport data and can coast in and out systems without any problem. External intelligence is covered by IBIS.
For me, spies do exist in various agencies, the function of the intelligence gathering in the 3i is largely in the hands of INI, as they have access to Starport data and can coast in and out systems without any problem. External intelligence is covered by IBIS.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Investigation, per se, has pottential to be very boring RP. Even shows like law and order which may show the detectives looking short on sleep and staring at stacks of documents, Or show them taking a phone call from someone who has been working hard and long offscreen, gloss over the real mindnumbing boredom of real world investigation/surveilance work. And the fanatical precision required of forensic science where the scientist knows some Laywer is going to try to take his work apart.
Running investigation type adventures, for me, requires knowing intimately what HAS happened and who knows what about that past and what those persons are willing to tell, reveal under various conditions.
I would then start feeding the players clues and see where it leads. It's something (to my mind) free form and roleplaying intensive. You have to play the unwilling witness or the witness who has critical information that they are unaware of.
The players have to think in those sorts of terms. Maybe get them to watch an episode of law and order to get them in the mood.
Are the places they are investigating Imperial territory and do they have formal authority? or are they more covert. That changes the style too.
They have to watch out for the official authorities. they may not need warrants, but they are caught doing something illegal the Scout Service will deny any knowledge of their existance...
One of the best printed adventures for this sort of 'leg work' and how it might work is 'Exit Visa' it's been printed in several travller products and also appears in the Traveller Adventure under "Zillan Wine". That gives you an idea of how to organise an evironment where the players have to walk and talk with several different people to get the peices they need to find the peices they need to get the right peices to solve the puzzle.
Exit Visa - is about trying to get off planet through a maddening bureaucracy.
Running investigation type adventures, for me, requires knowing intimately what HAS happened and who knows what about that past and what those persons are willing to tell, reveal under various conditions.
I would then start feeding the players clues and see where it leads. It's something (to my mind) free form and roleplaying intensive. You have to play the unwilling witness or the witness who has critical information that they are unaware of.
The players have to think in those sorts of terms. Maybe get them to watch an episode of law and order to get them in the mood.
Are the places they are investigating Imperial territory and do they have formal authority? or are they more covert. That changes the style too.
They have to watch out for the official authorities. they may not need warrants, but they are caught doing something illegal the Scout Service will deny any knowledge of their existance...
One of the best printed adventures for this sort of 'leg work' and how it might work is 'Exit Visa' it's been printed in several travller products and also appears in the Traveller Adventure under "Zillan Wine". That gives you an idea of how to organise an evironment where the players have to walk and talk with several different people to get the peices they need to find the peices they need to get the right peices to solve the puzzle.
Exit Visa - is about trying to get off planet through a maddening bureaucracy.
Shadow Bear
SOC-12
Wasn't there some refernce to ISIS as the Scout intel agency?
Here's a mystery when we're talking about Intel.
Why is it, once you've been Intel trained, you end up doing Infantry missions (or the equivalent in the Navy)? There really should be some tables for an intelligence trade and like Commandos, you should be able to transfer into it when you're trained. Scouts at least have Special Missions and such that can be rationalized as Intel work for the Security Branch (though I don't recall if that had a separate set of tables). Of course, I'm talking CT/MT here, as GT went a whole other direction.
Why is it, once you've been Intel trained, you end up doing Infantry missions (or the equivalent in the Navy)? There really should be some tables for an intelligence trade and like Commandos, you should be able to transfer into it when you're trained. Scouts at least have Special Missions and such that can be rationalized as Intel work for the Security Branch (though I don't recall if that had a separate set of tables). Of course, I'm talking CT/MT here, as GT went a whole other direction.
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