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Scouting

rancke

Absent Friend
Originally posted by BenBell:
From what I have been able to gather reading through old supplements, the Imperial Navy doesn't have it's own dedicated scout ships.
Any ship with a military grade sensor suite can function as a scout ship. The IN probably don't have any dedicted scout ships, but it does have fleet couriers, patrol ships and destroyers.

A jump-2 dedicated Scout ship is probably of too limited versatility to appeal to the IN.

Hans
 
From what I have been able to gather reading through old supplements, the Imperial Navy doesn't have it's own dedicated scout ships. When it needs scouting it just drafts the use of the IISS's ships.

Is this true or am I missing something from somewhere?
 
Yeah, they would probably send a small warship - a gazelle is ideal for a quick look see. The J4 drives and fuel allow J2 stand off scouting missions, further if you are a gazelle and drop the tanks. The guns would allow you a chance to destroy pursuit if you jumped into an active system.

As for sensors, if you jump into a system, a few light hours out, you can see whats in system as their radiated energy (scans, radio traffic) has already travelled out to your position. But they will not see you for at least 2 hours as your radiated energy makes its way in-system. That assumes you are not stealthed and they happen to be looking your way.

This allows you to have a 2 hour look arround + more time whilst they send a ship in your direction, and then you can jump just before it comes into weapons range.

For a clearer description of this see the library data in the TNE regency sourcebook.

Cheers
Richard
 
I don't think that's thew whole story. When the fleet goes to war, it needs additional scouts (and more importantly couriers) so it takes over some IISS assets. But it seems likely that the fleets have their own scouting capability as well.
 
The canon sources I've seen have said the fleet doesn't have it's own scouting assets. I'd imagine the navy as a general rule doesn't need them. By the time a scout gets back the data is at least a week old, two weeks by the time the fleet gets there, making it not that much use. Plus within a system if the fleet jumps in they have much more powerful sensors than the scouts and don't need to worry about only using passive as no one is going to miss the fact there is a fleet in the system anyway.
 
Originally posted by BenBell:
The canon sources I've seen have said the fleet doesn't have it's own scouting assets..
What sources? Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium (useless for actual ships, but slightly useful for organization) shows scouts in every major type of Navy squadron. I'll grant that other sources don't mention them explicitly, but neither do that say Navy scouts don't exist either.

I'd imagine the navy as a general rule doesn't need them. By the time a scout gets back the data is at least a week old, two weeks by the time the fleet gets there, making it not that much use. Plus within a system if the fleet jumps in they have much more powerful sensors than the scouts and don't need to worry about only using passive as no one is going to miss the fact there is a fleet in the system anyway.
I can see plenty of reasons to have scouts. Their information may be a couple of weeks old, but the enemy can't get reinforcements any faster than the attackers can react to their information. Also, you can station scouts as pickets to tell you when a particular event happens (when the enemy fleet jumps out of a certain system, for example). The lag makes it tricky to use this data, but a commander with experience in such things can find ways to do so. It's like the old age of sail fleets, which could chase eeach other across oceans for weeks before actually coming to battle.
 
Before WWI cruisers were divided into "Scout Cruisers", "Protected Cruisers", and "Armored Cruisers." About the start of WWI they were reclassifed as light and heavy cruisers without changing their job, which was largely reconnaissance, or scouting.

[Battlecruisers were big, fast cruisers designed to chase away the other guy's scouting cruisers. When Navies tried to use them as small battleships they got smeared.]

Scouting is what light combatants (like destroyers and light cruisers) do. A professional Scout may be useful but not necessary. Scouts might be more useful providing independent, strategic intelligence to the Duke or Emperor.
 
Hello fellow Travellers;

What about the Type T Patrol Cruiser?

It is fast & well armed enough to do the job & it can be produced in large numbers & as it is a TL12 design, it should be able to do the job just fine...

Plus, in T20 with its ability to carry 25.8 tons it could carry 2 10 ton fighters to protect itself & fitting it with a fuel purifier it could hide in a Gas Giant & gain valuable intelligence about a system, without having to risk your own main battle fleet. Plus, you could use Type Ss to relay the information to the main fleet.

Btw, since most (at least 50% of Gas Giants are not near the main world) reacting to a Jump in or out would not be possible, this may be another use for the Type T. Also, you can jump to any point in a system correct? Then why not to the Gas Giant & just use it to cover yourself & spend the time to recon the area? Plus, I am sure if you were a Fleet Commander in the 3I, Intel that is a week old would be something you would love to have...
 
During WW2, the Nazis (hiss!!) had a few "pocket" battleships, which were mainly used for raiding; does Traveller have an equivalent and would it be useful for scouting?
 
Originally posted by Jame:
During WW2, the Nazis (hiss!!) had a few "pocket" battleships, which were mainly used for raiding; does Traveller have an equivalent and would it be useful for scouting?
Like the Admiral Graf Spee. These were really heavy cruisers (16,000 tons, slightly smaller than an American Baltimore class). IIRC it was supposed to outgun other cruisers and outrun batleships. The theory didn't really work (see the battle of the river Platte).

It is good to have your cruisers as large as you can afford, but as long as they are big enough to make mincemeat of pirates, armed merchantmen and SDBs you want as many as you can afford. I usually sized them to carry a middle-sized spine mount and lots of beam lasers for missile and fighter defense.
 
Originally posted by Jame:
During WW2, the Nazis (hiss!!) had a few "pocket" battleships, which were mainly used for raiding; does Traveller have an equivalent and would it be useful for scouting?
The Azhanti High Lightning "Fleet Intruder" seems to have been designed for roughly this raider role. It would be overkill for scouting, though.

An ideal deep scout would have at least 6 jumps worth of fuel, and possibly more. You could launch it with L-hyd tanks for a boost in range, as well.
 
Alright, the _Graf Spee_ equivalent would be more of a raider, like the Azhanti High Lightning. That makes sense. Where could I find stats and info on the Azhanti, anyway?

6 Jumps at what speed? If it's J4, that's a lot of fuel to carry, especially for a larger ship which has other things to carry.
 
Originally posted by Jame:
6 Jumps at what speed? If it's J4, that's a lot of fuel to carry, especially for a larger ship which has other things to carry.
I meant 6 parsecs worth of fuel. Carrying fuel for six J-4s is mathematically impossible (6x40%=240% of the ship's volume.) You could try some massive staging arrnagements, but the J-drives woudl get too big pretty quickly.

I did some doodling last night and managed J-5 with 7 parsecs worth of fuel. I don't think 8 parsecs it practical, though, now that I've run the numbers. At TL-14, the component breakdown is:

Bridge 2%
Man-1G 2%
Jump-4 5%
Fuel 80% (8 parsecs total)
Power 5%
Fuel 5%
Total 99%

That leaves 1% for crew, computer, and anything else you might need. That's too tight to be feasible. At TL15, it might be doable, just barely (you have 6% to play with then).
 
Ah. Well, I'm not much of a gearhead, so I can't tell you how much fuel capacity you would need for 24 parsecs.
 
Regarding scouting vessels I have recently posted a design on my site for an exploratory vessel (ALS Gannon FFX-12). This was done as a conversion from a warship. I also did some rough deckplans (I have not labelled the plans). For those interested you can view the Gannon at
www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran/Banners/equipment/Craft/Alston/gannon.html

 
Originally posted by Jame:
Ah. Well, I'm not much of a gearhead, so I can't tell you how much fuel capacity you would need for 24 parsecs.
10% of hull volume per parsec, so 24 parsecs is 240% of hull volume, i.e. it's impossible. It is just possible (as has been pointed out) to build a 2 jump-4 vessel, as long as you don't want it to do anything else.

Scouting, raiding etc. is what the IN CruRons are for. In the 3I environment war is very much going to be a matter of Guerre de Course (sp?) rather than Jutland style slugfests, with the whole Concentration vs Dispersion issue. Your CruRons are your main covering force/ scouting arm etc. while the BatRons are really you're striking force.

A reasonable model of 3I warfare is a lot of Cruiser actions with the Battle Squadrons hanging back behind the lines and mounting strikes to try and gain local superiority and attack bases/ invest systems etc. while at the same time shadowing each other so they can intervene.

Bryn
 
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