Scout Culture
- Thread starter kilemall
- Start date
A couple things jump out at me.
The rigid bureaucratic side and the loosely organized field side. Seems like the scouts, with its 1000 year history, would have its own hallowed traditional organizational culture, rigid in its own way, and possibly less than kind to those who don't fit in. Even the individualistic field would have its own norms and standards, which non stupid people would take care not to transgress.
So what are the?
Imo, the bureaucratic side would be similar to the US coast guard, a uniformed government service, armed but not militarized, but with a similar professionalism and discipline. Of course I know the uscg is a law enforcement public safety agency, but this analogy isn't perfect. Anyway.
The culture would value professionalism, competence and discipline, and service to the imperium, but it wouldn't have the abusive qualities many military cultures have. The iiss wouldn't need to do crowd control on battalions of surly conscripts whod rather be anywhere else, and so wouldn't need abusive social control techniques embedded in its culture.
Imo and imtu, scout culture prizes self control, consideration of others, unobtrusiveness, forgiveness and polite courtesy. Rather than bluntly telling someone everything they think about them as soon as they meet them, which could cause problems right off the bat (why should I put myself out for someone who thinks I'm garbage?), scouts joining a new team get a discussion of how the team does things, what to expect professionally and socially, and then the team listens to the new scout state what's important to him, and then people sincerely try to respect it as best they can within the confines of professionalism and mission requirements.
Imtu the iiss would have a required training for meditation and other self control techniques. Teams form around competent professionals trained by the education branch (sent to uni by the iiss for anthropology etc.) with the manning roster customized by required skillset. Scouts would be highly cognizant that they'll be a leader on one mission, but a follower on the the next, and treat people accordingly. Snark, pranks, social games, hazing, all that would be despised. Scouts would focus on bringing a team member up to their level through mentorship and ojt, instead of derision and stomping them down so they leave the team. Scouts imtu are by and large smarter than the average, and mission leaders are very intelligent highly competent people who don't have much time for workplace politics.
The rigid bureaucratic side and the loosely organized field side. Seems like the scouts, with its 1000 year history, would have its own hallowed traditional organizational culture, rigid in its own way, and possibly less than kind to those who don't fit in. Even the individualistic field would have its own norms and standards, which non stupid people would take care not to transgress.
So what are the?
Imo, the bureaucratic side would be similar to the US coast guard, a uniformed government service, armed but not militarized, but with a similar professionalism and discipline. Of course I know the uscg is a law enforcement public safety agency, but this analogy isn't perfect. Anyway.
The culture would value professionalism, competence and discipline, and service to the imperium, but it wouldn't have the abusive qualities many military cultures have. The iiss wouldn't need to do crowd control on battalions of surly conscripts whod rather be anywhere else, and so wouldn't need abusive social control techniques embedded in its culture.
Imo and imtu, scout culture prizes self control, consideration of others, unobtrusiveness, forgiveness and polite courtesy. Rather than bluntly telling someone everything they think about them as soon as they meet them, which could cause problems right off the bat (why should I put myself out for someone who thinks I'm garbage?), scouts joining a new team get a discussion of how the team does things, what to expect professionally and socially, and then the team listens to the new scout state what's important to him, and then people sincerely try to respect it as best they can within the confines of professionalism and mission requirements.
Imtu the iiss would have a required training for meditation and other self control techniques. Teams form around competent professionals trained by the education branch (sent to uni by the iiss for anthropology etc.) with the manning roster customized by required skillset. Scouts would be highly cognizant that they'll be a leader on one mission, but a follower on the the next, and treat people accordingly. Snark, pranks, social games, hazing, all that would be despised. Scouts would focus on bringing a team member up to their level through mentorship and ojt, instead of derision and stomping them down so they leave the team. Scouts imtu are by and large smarter than the average, and mission leaders are very intelligent highly competent people who don't have much time for workplace politics.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Which, outside Imperial borders would likely make them less than welcome in many systems and most small empires, since everyone else would know that.
"Sir, an Imperial Scout ship just arrived in our system. They want to do a survey..."
"No, they're here to learn our defenses and are the precursor to an Imperial invasion! Tell them not only 'no,' but HELL NO! They turn on one active sensor and scan anything, blow them out of space..."
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
They might also get treated like the USS Pueblo in 1968 and get seized by the planet. Another option would be to get the USS Liberty treatment and get "accidentally" shot up. Either way would get the point across that the Scouts were not welcome. Optionally, as message torpedoes are not canon, the locals could simply blow them apart and leave the Imperium to figure it out. Misjumps do occur, after all.
While not agreeing with all of this, I mostly agree. And while reading the thing that jumped out to me was this sounds like how Agile software development teams are supposed to form (the theory is nice, so far in my experience, the reality not so much). Basically: people will be self-organizing around each project, and the one best suited to lead that particular project, or exploration in IIS case, would lead. That Scout may be better suited as support on the next one.
In my reading of the Scouts, that's how I envisioned them: while appearing disorganized on the outside and full of misfits, there is actually an ordered and very capable crew doing what needs to be done. It may not be the most direct path to getting things done, but in the end it may actually perform better than a military-style rigid structure as each crew member will be doing the best thing they are suited for.
Organizing this sort of group is often quite problematical. Which is why in MTU the Scout leaders tend to just give the desired outcome and let the team figure out how to do it. Works more often than not, and in the past, a more rigid structure gave actually worse results.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Well certainly the intelligence arm vis-a-vis the postal service, and a fair amount of Streetwise and poking around especially with all those DD Type S.
Which I also see as kind of an ersatz patrol that is impossible to predict since those ships go around in random patterns that won't fit operations models. This alone probably justifies the Detached Duty 'benefit', as the service has a LOT of obfuscating red herring ships that won't give away what the service is actually wanting to accomplish.
As far as poking around, I always envisioned the sort of reaction Enoki brings up, certainly not welcome as 'just another Type S yahoo'. The DD Scout reporting to homebase/data dump thing is another problem, as a lot of criminals and other unsavory types are likely to steer clear of 'scout snitches', voluntary or involuntary (even a Type S may have room for a logger/recorder or two).
I would expect Scout intelligence to operate more like plucking out a regular Joe Scout and sucking him into something that his background suits him for- sort of the same thing as the way scout teams are formed in general. Just a few scout leaders that know where all the threads go, and most scouts would never interact with the intel side for their entire career.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I can buy the standards of professionalism whole hog as I'm envisioning the frankness portion to be conducted in a cultural style 'this works' way, rancor and emotionalism is out the airlock as something that gets people killed.
But using the skill sets as a cue, both CT LBB1 and LBB6, I just don't see the people skills. Streetwise is consistently there, but not Leader or Liaison except at bureaucrat leader ranks. The average line scout is more likely to have Carousing and Streetwise with a side of Admin then any other skill.
I can see your take working fine, so no harm no foul, but diplomatic/people person scouts just doesn't seem to be in the skill sets.
Yes, my version seems a bit too utopian to be realistic. Perhaps it could be an ideal that many scouts aspire to rather than a norm.
I was thinking about how small teams isolated for months at a time and confined in small ships could adapt socially to keep from breaking down or driving each other crazy.
I was thinking about how small teams isolated for months at a time and confined in small ships could adapt socially to keep from breaking down or driving each other crazy.
khadaji2002
SOC-12
Tiikeri, one possible way of the Scouts keeping from breaking down or driving each other crazy would be some form of discipline similar to what the Chinese do in highly urbanized areas. While I was in Nanjing I noticed that the same people who cheerfully greeted me in the morning resolutely ignored me in the evening. Someone who lived there finally clued me in. During the day was "social time" and people greet each other and talk. Evening was "family time" and the only people you acknowledge are those in your immediate family.
I can see that translating fairly well into the Scouts. On-duty in a cramped ship for weeks? When you are on duty you are expected to be professional, do your job, and get along with everyone you deal with. Off-duty, you're free to flat-out ignore someone, and to go to the leader of the expedition if someone is barging into your privacy when you're off.
I can also see every Scout having some sort of creative hobby. Creating 3D designs for printing back at base. Whittling something where the shavings can go into the life support system for recycling. Making jewelry. Etc.
I can see that translating fairly well into the Scouts. On-duty in a cramped ship for weeks? When you are on duty you are expected to be professional, do your job, and get along with everyone you deal with. Off-duty, you're free to flat-out ignore someone, and to go to the leader of the expedition if someone is barging into your privacy when you're off.
I can also see every Scout having some sort of creative hobby. Creating 3D designs for printing back at base. Whittling something where the shavings can go into the life support system for recycling. Making jewelry. Etc.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I wouldn't go around telling everyone the ending of books and films while on a Scout mission.
I don't think this was well thought out in the beginning, except by Book Six, I think, that dichotomy between a loose field organization, and a very tight bureaucracy.
It seems the stereotype is very much based on the popular self sufficient and capable man pulp archetype, hence getting assigned to a hundred tonne solo manned boat.
The rest seems trying to retcon a functioning and recognizable organization on what seems somewhat a throwaway profession.
Scout cruisers can be old refurbished naval ships, but the crews should be a little undermanned in comparison, giving each crew that personal space, should they choose implement that.
I don't think this was well thought out in the beginning, except by Book Six, I think, that dichotomy between a loose field organization, and a very tight bureaucracy.
It seems the stereotype is very much based on the popular self sufficient and capable man pulp archetype, hence getting assigned to a hundred tonne solo manned boat.
The rest seems trying to retcon a functioning and recognizable organization on what seems somewhat a throwaway profession.
Scout cruisers can be old refurbished naval ships, but the crews should be a little undermanned in comparison, giving each crew that personal space, should they choose implement that.
So you're talking about an organisation of professionals all of whom are at least at supervisor if not manager level of expectation of competency, regardless of their designated rank in the organisation?
That sort of thing could work well - there's no need for a formal military-style hierarchy out in the field as everyone has a role on a ship or expedition and they're focused on carrying out that role. That wouldn't mean that there wouldn't be interpersonal problems at times, but just that they'd be more self-disciplined, focused on outcomes, and suited to regulating their own work than others would. Though, writing all this, that sort of thing is also seen in top-tier SF as well. They're a far cry from what's depicted in XBox and PS games, far closer to a small scout crew with a spread of expertise's and an unwavering focus on the mission outcome.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
One Riot, One Mountie.
Alternately, Norton's Patrol or, with an eye roll, Chandler's Grimes (though he frequently had a partner; just a different one every story...)
I didn't mention levels of competence, just that the culture values competence. Now that you mention it, the people who get assigned to scout vessels most likely have a high degree of competence. I guess I'd say journeyman level competence at least. Once on a mission, weeks out from anywhere, that small team will rely on each member to do their job completely reliably.
Hobbies are a great idea, but I'm not sure how much free time scouts on a mission would actually have. Maintenance, physical fitness, data analysis, cross training, duty watches, required professional education, imo all these activities would leave a scout without much free time. I guess it comes down to each person's TU.
The creative outlets mentioned would be ideal pursuits for scouts on voyages when they did have time. It might even be a custom that a scout learn one new artistic or creative pursuit by the end of each year. It's possible that art, music and poetry by scouts could be well known.
Hobbies are a great idea, but I'm not sure how much free time scouts on a mission would actually have. Maintenance, physical fitness, data analysis, cross training, duty watches, required professional education, imo all these activities would leave a scout without much free time. I guess it comes down to each person's TU.
The creative outlets mentioned would be ideal pursuits for scouts on voyages when they did have time. It might even be a custom that a scout learn one new artistic or creative pursuit by the end of each year. It's possible that art, music and poetry by scouts could be well known.
khadaji2002
SOC-12
I would that that especially in jump space you would be able to set a schedule where everyone involved is on duty for 8 hours during which time they deal with needed daily and weekly maintenance along with any other needed duties pertaining to the ship they're on. Then you move to an 8 hour shift in which you study for all needed continuing education courses and/or study of the upcoming mission. As part of this shift you'd have a 60 to 90-minute window to practice your hobby. This is not just a time-waster, this is a chance to unplug from your duties and do something completely different. Then of course you'd move to your 8 hour sleep shift.
Outside jumpspace I agree that things could get very hectic, even moving to a four hour on/four hour off shift schedule or busier schedule where everyone is working whatever hours are needed to get the job done. That is exhausting and stressful, so once back in jumpspace the slower pace schedule would be implemented again to help everyone de-stress and rest.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Re: hobbies, arts, pursuits, skills etc., it comes to my mind that all that JoAT skill is not by accident. Since it's a defining characteristic of the career, then we should assume that the service either culturally and/or training wise promotes activities and learning that makes sure they create well-rounded do anything renaissance spacers.
For some reason the new invention day tradition of Gizmonics from MST3K comes to mind- an expectation that each person is constantly learning something every week and maybe demonstrates it so everyone knows.
This week, CPR. Next week, traditional Vilani fungiculture. The following week, scramming a fusion reactor, then parry moves against traditional Marine cutlass moves. Too small and precise to constitute an actual skill, but handy to know and then correlate 'I saw this once/this control panel is like that old last century Type A2 I saw at the museum in the interactive exhibit'.
For some reason the new invention day tradition of Gizmonics from MST3K comes to mind- an expectation that each person is constantly learning something every week and maybe demonstrates it so everyone knows.
This week, CPR. Next week, traditional Vilani fungiculture. The following week, scramming a fusion reactor, then parry moves against traditional Marine cutlass moves. Too small and precise to constitute an actual skill, but handy to know and then correlate 'I saw this once/this control panel is like that old last century Type A2 I saw at the museum in the interactive exhibit'.
khadaji2002
SOC-12
kilemall, you might be on to something here. 
I really like that as an example of how JoAT works and plan to implement that into any future character creation that goes on. If a PC gets the JoAT skill then that term they spent a lot of time either A) with not a whole to do to accomplish their job so the organization or superior officer starts having him do little bits of this and that to keep them on their toes; or B) the PC themselves got motivated to take short training courses on specific events as you describe above in an effort to broaden their understanding of many different skill sets.
I really like that as an example of how JoAT works and plan to implement that into any future character creation that goes on. If a PC gets the JoAT skill then that term they spent a lot of time either A) with not a whole to do to accomplish their job so the organization or superior officer starts having him do little bits of this and that to keep them on their toes; or B) the PC themselves got motivated to take short training courses on specific events as you describe above in an effort to broaden their understanding of many different skill sets.
KyleLittle
SOC-6
Motto of the JoAT: "I'm no expert, but I have watched the YouTube video."
Love the discussion; culture and Scouts, two of my fav traveller topics.
MJD wrote a piece for T20, in "Grand Endeavor" which is listed as "12 - TA2 - Grand Endeavor" in my material. The short story I'm thinking of is called "Reactivation Clause" and is a fine snapshot of much of what's been discussed on this thread, as well as the core, defining trait of duty for Scouts.
Different than honor, the levels of which I imagine might vary quite a bit from Scout to Scout, I feel like a sense of duty runs pretty deeply through most if not all Scouts.
MJD wrote a piece for T20, in "Grand Endeavor" which is listed as "12 - TA2 - Grand Endeavor" in my material. The short story I'm thinking of is called "Reactivation Clause" and is a fine snapshot of much of what's been discussed on this thread, as well as the core, defining trait of duty for Scouts.
Different than honor, the levels of which I imagine might vary quite a bit from Scout to Scout, I feel like a sense of duty runs pretty deeply through most if not all Scouts.
BRJN
SOC-12
… and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night !
