Sandcasters

[stofsk]

Let's say you're landed on a planet and your ship gets waylaid by angry natives. You decide to scare them off, and you've got a sandcaster.

Can you use a sandcaster in an atmosphere? By that I mean if you shoot it would sand get blasted everywhere, not that it can be used against incoming lasers.

 

[TheEngineer]

MT provides personal combat stats for a sandcaster:
Pen 20/2, Dmg 10, Max Range v.long, Dangerspace 15 at short /45 at medium/ 135 at long range.

Somehow it appears like a large shotgun, with a fairly diverging path of the "pellets" and an expanding danger space.

No other restrictions regarding use in atmosphere.

 

[stofsk]

So it can actually kill? I thought it would be an annoyance, like getting mud slapped into your eyes.

Although I'm not totally surprised.

 

[TheEngineer]

Well, even while penetration drops to 10 at medium and long range, or to 5 at very long range, this is still able to hurt unprotected individuals badly.
OTOH a shot over the head, so that the targets are at the edge of danger space, might tease, but not cause serious wounds.
Anyway, You still could do a shot in the sky, perhaps causing the pellets to rain down

There's always a choice...

TE

 

[Liam Devlin]

I'd call being in front of a launched sand blaster shotgun shell not very much fun. Had someone in game do that from a Scout ship, as thats all they had in the turret to advancing SPA patrol cars on the airfield/ pad.. knocked out the engines, abraided the windscreens like salt oceans do glass--only faster, and clogged their intakes. Yep, they needed a new paint job too.

Vs. Humans without armor..ewwwwwww. If not fatal, they'd wish they were dead! just MO tho.
YMMV.

 

[mike wightman]

There are rules in Striker for using sandcasters as antipersonel weapons too.
Considering their penetration rating etc. they are quite effective against lightly armoured vehicles as well.

 

[MrMorden]

On a hard surface, you can "skip fire" a shotgun so that the pellets lose some energy and mostly strike a crowd's lower extremities. If your ship is parked on tarmac or bedrock, the natives might find this MOST discouraging.

 

[Badbru]

Not to mention that in TNE some sandcasters use a gravitic field to manipulate the sand once it's out. Would this gravitic field be strong enough to knock people off their feet? Personally I'd doubt it but maybe, IYTU it might...

 

[MrMorden]

Originally posted by Badbru:
Not to mention that in TNE some sandcasters use a gravitic field to manipulate the sand once it's out. Would this gravitic field be strong enough to knock people off their feet? Personally I'd doubt it but maybe, IYTU it might...

Jeez, I really hate that explanation. I like that Traveller postulates gravitics, but it seems like a lot of Traveller stuff overuses it.

I mean, come on...a freakin' air/raft costs HUNDREDS of thousands of credits, primarily based on the cost of the gravitics, but we can afford to pack grav generators into every disposable sand canister?!? What's next, a grav belt in my cracker jack box?

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, over use of gravitics...

grav plates
acceleration compensators
null grav modules/contra grav lifters
maneuver drive
repulsors
tractors
grav focused lasers
sand cloud manipulation
(jump drive???)

Now, how many applications of manipulation of the electromagnetic force can you think of?

Isn't the grav manipulator for the sandcaster in the turret rather than the cannister anyway...

 

[Pickles]

"Dagnabbit, I dunno. I jes' point the tube an' it goes ..."

"It goes ...?"

"Heck, yeah it goes ... T'aint no 'Bang' in space, ya groundhog!"

 

[Badbru]

Originally posted by MrMorden:
Jeez, I really hate that explanation. I like that Traveller postulates gravitics, but it seems like a lot of Traveller stuff overuses it.

I mean, come on...a freakin' air/raft costs HUNDREDS of thousands of credits, primarily based on the cost of the gravitics, but we can afford to pack grav generators into every disposable sand canister?!? What's next, a grav belt in my cracker jack box?

[/QB]

Ummmn, either you have no experience with TNE, or I explained myself really really badly. The "Field Generator" is not in every disposable can of sand! It's part of the "Sandcaster", ie the turret mounted in the turret socket, not the ammunition for said turret.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Well, IMTU, a sandcaster fires a canister of ablative cilica at a certain, programable distance. Think of it in terms of an old WWII depth charge. Yes, there are some physics problem with it, but it got into our house rules on the we-used-it-in-play rule... Besides, Striker includes sandcaster vs. infantry stats.

So, yes, my group has used a sandcaster as a sand-shotgun against enemy infantry. Worked GREAT!

Please note, that sandcasters do not warn the badguys off...it turns an entire mob of angry natives into a red, bloody mist and covers an entire facing of your vessel (fore, aft, port, starboard, dorsal, ventral).

 

[Jamus]

^^
same imtu, The pattern the sand will take can be determined by explosive force and canister shape though I would thing a sphere or flattened sphere would offer the best protection for the buck.

/\- - - (*) ----------- \/

where the wedges are ships and the asterix is the location of sand canister explotion blocking the inc laser fire.

Another issue to consider is that in large battles space would quickly fill up with swirling clouds of sand making las fire more difficult the longer the engagment.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

I don't know about the large space battle thing, Jamus. When you're talking about ships manuvering, at space battlefield covers a HUGE volume of space.

Consider two points:

Spacecraft (etc.) would not fly in 'naval review' formations any more than modern sea units do today. For one thing, close proximity to other ships is risking serious collision or the enemy being able to target two or three vessels with the same 100-ton missile bay. In modern naval vessels, it is a lucky day if the crew of an Aircraft Carrier see the other units in it's battlegroup. I can only assume that the IN would follow the same manuvering regulations as the modern navies of the world today.

Second of all, at the distances described, there is literally so much space that the odds on a given vessel being in the same spot for a second salvo are slim to none. I read somewhere in earlier canon that the IN performance standard is 4g/4J by the time of the Rebellion, so assuming that you fired at Bandit A, the odds on him being in the same area by the time you fired again (20 minutes later) are slim to nil.

I guess what I'm saying is that my view of major unit space combat is more 'Battle of Jutland' than 'Star Wars' fighter combat.

 

[Jamus]

I can dig it man. I was just considering a fleet engagement where ships on both sides were unloading sand casters like woah. Also consider that a carrier group will all be within 20-100 nautical miles of task force center. granted fleet actions in space would probably cover a larger area but still the fleets are going to operate in formations with pickets ships of the line and carriers all doing thier part.

In my minds eye I always picture traveller combat as more like a submarine engagement than a surface ship battle.

edit to add

Also on the issue of sand. at the battles conclusion someone would have to clean the sand up or deal with a hazard to shipping. though warships are stoutly build i would hate to be onboard a far trader that accidentally ran through a sand cloud or left warp into one. worse to be skimming a gas giant and grab a tank full of silica. also what effects would massive clouds of sand have on insystem communications? granted if close to a world the sand may eventually burn in orbit but what of the sattelites and stations that may be in the way?

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Hmmm. OK, I can see that point, especially in a system like Zhimaway (sp) that had around 5 or 6 major fleet engagements duing the First Imperial Civil War.

Solution...perhaps the cilica (sand) has a cheap chemical additive to break it down into it's atomic particles. That would be a pretty convenient IMTU rule....

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, sand clouds and debris fields from previous battles as charted navigational hazards...

 

[Cyberwere]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Hmm, sand clouds and debris fields from previous battles as charted navigational hazards...

Not only sand. The whole battle space is going to be cluttered with debris. Chunks of ship, unexploded missiles, vented atmosphere with clouds of ice particles and a few bodies. Think what a frozen chicken fired at a windscreen can do. How about a frozen marine at fraction of C. Yuck.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

And that's where our Intrepid Band of Heroes (sic.) comes in!

Have I seen this somewhere before???