Sandcasters.... How do they WORK?

[far-trader]

Yeah, my take on the hull grid is also that there isn't one for a number of reasons.

Instead I see a projected field effect that extends about a meter beyond the hull. It's built in as part of the contragrav lifters and provides the nullification of the ship v gravity and creates the artificial gravity plane for the craft. Tied in with the power for the thrusters it provides inertial compensation during maneuvers. And tied in with the jump drive it controls the tumble and keeps the jump dimension safely away from the ship.

No messy hull grid issues (damage, small craft and SDB lack of differences). No silly jump flash and light show (silly imo, sure there's a huge power spike when entering jump but nothing when you come out, I like stealthy precipitation).

Also the way I see damage being rationalized is this. If a hit for -1 on my Jump Drive drops it from J3 to J2 it's not the actual Jump Drive that is affected, it's the power routing to/through it, limiting me to only handling a lower power setting. Otherwise emergency repairs would be too involved to be feasible, again imo. Same for the other drives.

 

[far-trader]

Yeah, my take on the hull grid is also that there isn't one for a number of reasons.

Instead I see a projected field effect that extends about a meter beyond the hull. It's built in as part of the contragrav lifters and provides the nullification of the ship v gravity and creates the artificial gravity plane for the craft. Tied in with the power for the thrusters it provides inertial compensation during maneuvers. And tied in with the jump drive it controls the tumble and keeps the jump dimension safely away from the ship.

No messy hull grid issues (damage, small craft and SDB lack of differences). No silly jump flash and light show (silly imo, sure there's a huge power spike when entering jump but nothing when you come out, I like stealthy precipitation).

Also the way I see damage being rationalized is this. If a hit for -1 on my Jump Drive drops it from J3 to J2 it's not the actual Jump Drive that is affected, it's the power routing to/through it, limiting me to only handling a lower power setting. Otherwise emergency repairs would be too involved to be feasible, again imo. Same for the other drives.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
SOM can talk about damaged hull grids all it wants. SOM is not a rule book and it's comments regarding damaged hull grids don't show up in MT's ship combat results.

Incorrect. The SOM has a 7 page rules section starting on page 59.

You can inflict surface hit after surface hit, prang a hull into swiss cheese, and not damage a vessel's ability to jump one whit.

Again, incorrect. You might want to check out the rules for a damaged hull grid on page 64.

Surface hits can damage the hull grid, and a damaged hull grid might inhibit a ship's ability to jump.

Show me the same SOM/hull grid comments in MT's ship combat rules and we'll all take notice.

Well, I can't show you the hull grid reference in MT basic rules because they're not there.

But, I can show you the reference in the SOM for considering the hull grid using MT's ship combat rules.

Book 6 built upon the world creation rules in Book 3. Book 7 built upon the commerce rules in Book 3.

Not unlike these examples, the SOM builds upon the rules in the basic MT set.

If you want to check out how to consider hull grid surface hits using MT starship combat, then simply flip to page 64 of the SOM.

Just curious...are you "taking notice"?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
SOM can talk about damaged hull grids all it wants. SOM is not a rule book and it's comments regarding damaged hull grids don't show up in MT's ship combat results.

Incorrect. The SOM has a 7 page rules section starting on page 59.

You can inflict surface hit after surface hit, prang a hull into swiss cheese, and not damage a vessel's ability to jump one whit.

Again, incorrect. You might want to check out the rules for a damaged hull grid on page 64.

Surface hits can damage the hull grid, and a damaged hull grid might inhibit a ship's ability to jump.

Show me the same SOM/hull grid comments in MT's ship combat rules and we'll all take notice.

Well, I can't show you the hull grid reference in MT basic rules because they're not there.

But, I can show you the reference in the SOM for considering the hull grid using MT's ship combat rules.

Book 6 built upon the world creation rules in Book 3. Book 7 built upon the commerce rules in Book 3.

Not unlike these examples, the SOM builds upon the rules in the basic MT set.

If you want to check out how to consider hull grid surface hits using MT starship combat, then simply flip to page 64 of the SOM.

Just curious...are you "taking notice"?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Anyway, what you claim works IYTU is your business. What you claim works in the OTU is another kettle of fish entirely.

BTW, Bill, you should slow down a pace and check out what I wrote.

I never claimed that controlling the sand cloud via the hull grid was OTU. That's just a conclusion I came to discussing this thread.

You're a little too quick to jump on the OTU horn sometimes.

Chill, out, bro. Chill out.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Anyway, what you claim works IYTU is your business. What you claim works in the OTU is another kettle of fish entirely.

BTW, Bill, you should slow down a pace and check out what I wrote.

I never claimed that controlling the sand cloud via the hull grid was OTU. That's just a conclusion I came to discussing this thread.

You're a little too quick to jump on the OTU horn sometimes.

Chill, out, bro. Chill out.

 

[mike wightman]

Anyone else notice that in CT a 400t spaceship hull is half the price of a starship hull

I wonder why

I don't use hull grids either, by the way. As Bill and Aramis have said, there is no way to damage the hull grid in the ship combat games available. So if you want to go by the description given in SOM you'd have to re-write the ship damage charts to include jump grid surface hits.
The SOM doesn't give us new combat resolution charts.

 

[mike wightman]

Anyone else notice that in CT a 400t spaceship hull is half the price of a starship hull

I wonder why

I don't use hull grids either, by the way. As Bill and Aramis have said, there is no way to damage the hull grid in the ship combat games available. So if you want to go by the description given in SOM you'd have to re-write the ship damage charts to include jump grid surface hits.
The SOM doesn't give us new combat resolution charts.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I don't use hull grids either, by the way. As Bill and Aramis have said, there is no way to damage the hull grid in the ship combat games available. So if you want to go by the description given in SOM you'd have to re-write the ship damage charts to include jump grid surface hits.
The SOM doesn't give us new combat resolution charts.

FYI - surface hits damaging the hull grid is considered on page 64 of the SOM.

No need to re-write the combat resolution charts.

Man..Sig...I actually knew one you didn't this time!

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I don't use hull grids either, by the way. As Bill and Aramis have said, there is no way to damage the hull grid in the ship combat games available. So if you want to go by the description given in SOM you'd have to re-write the ship damage charts to include jump grid surface hits.
The SOM doesn't give us new combat resolution charts.

FYI - surface hits damaging the hull grid is considered on page 64 of the SOM.

No need to re-write the combat resolution charts.

Man..Sig...I actually knew one you didn't this time!

 

[Supplement Four]

Not to nit-pick you, Bill, but to respond to a couple of your other comments...

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:

SOM says a lot of things a lot of people ignore. Do you, as SOM suggests, 'overpower' your thruster plates to 400% to provide lift perpendicular to the plate's orientation?

I don't have a problem with it. I also use contra-grav in my game as well.

Do your thruster plates glow blue and, while they can be mounted anywhere and provide thrust, are they installed aft because installing them forward wouldn't let the Navy sneak up on pirates? SOM speaks directly to those practices too.

Yes, I subscribe to the SOM's idea that T-plates glow blue and can be mounted anywhere on the ship.

And why is a fellow who routinely trumpets his "I Use CT Canon Only" stance quoting a MegaTraveller book in the first place?

Much of MT is really just CT. Not all of it, but a lot of it. MT builds a lot on CT. I defintely don't think MT should be ignored the way TNE or GT can.

Anyway, what you claim works IYTU is your business. What you claim works in the OTU is another kettle of fish entirely.

The SOM is canon. Traveller canon. MT canon.

 

[Supplement Four]

Not to nit-pick you, Bill, but to respond to a couple of your other comments...

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:

SOM says a lot of things a lot of people ignore. Do you, as SOM suggests, 'overpower' your thruster plates to 400% to provide lift perpendicular to the plate's orientation?

I don't have a problem with it. I also use contra-grav in my game as well.

Do your thruster plates glow blue and, while they can be mounted anywhere and provide thrust, are they installed aft because installing them forward wouldn't let the Navy sneak up on pirates? SOM speaks directly to those practices too.

Yes, I subscribe to the SOM's idea that T-plates glow blue and can be mounted anywhere on the ship.

And why is a fellow who routinely trumpets his "I Use CT Canon Only" stance quoting a MegaTraveller book in the first place?

Much of MT is really just CT. Not all of it, but a lot of it. MT builds a lot on CT. I defintely don't think MT should be ignored the way TNE or GT can.

Anyway, what you claim works IYTU is your business. What you claim works in the OTU is another kettle of fish entirely.

The SOM is canon. Traveller canon. MT canon.

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, there is a rule, but it doesn't replace or change the damage resolution tables.

There is a high risk the jump field will not close if more than 10% of the ship's hull net is missing in any one location. How could this happen?
1.From any critical surface hit in starship combat
2.Compute percent of hull net damage = (number of surface hits x 100) / hull disp
If this number is greater than 10, then high risk.

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, there is a rule, but it doesn't replace or change the damage resolution tables.

There is a high risk the jump field will not close if more than 10% of the ship's hull net is missing in any one location. How could this happen?
1.From any critical surface hit in starship combat
2.Compute percent of hull net damage = (number of surface hits x 100) / hull disp
If this number is greater than 10, then high risk.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:


Yep, there is a rule, but it doesn't replace or change the damage resolution tables.

It speaks to surface hits and the hull grid.

Why would you need to change the damage resolution tables? There are already surface hits on the resolution tables.

Some of those surface hits will damage your hull grid, as represnted in the rule.

Why would a different damage table be needed when the original one works fine?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:


Yep, there is a rule, but it doesn't replace or change the damage resolution tables.

It speaks to surface hits and the hull grid.

Why would you need to change the damage resolution tables? There are already surface hits on the resolution tables.

Some of those surface hits will damage your hull grid, as represnted in the rule.

Why would a different damage table be needed when the original one works fine?

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Anyone else notice that in CT a 400t spaceship hull is half the price of a starship hull <snip>

Please give the reference please! As far as I've ever read in B2 or HG a hull is the same price whether the ship will have a jump drive or not.

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Anyone else notice that in CT a 400t spaceship hull is half the price of a starship hull <snip>

Please give the reference please! As far as I've ever read in B2 or HG a hull is the same price whether the ship will have a jump drive or not.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
It speaks to surface hits and the hull grid.

Why would you need to change the damage resolution tables? There are already surface hits on the resolution tables.

A fair point, and the auto crits from weapon battery size/spinals should count too.

Some of those surface hits will damage your hull grid, as represnted in the rule.

Why would a different damage table be needed when the original one works fine?

The second rule in the quote above is too cumbersome in play, it would be easier to include a hull grid hit on the damage table IMHO.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
It speaks to surface hits and the hull grid.

Why would you need to change the damage resolution tables? There are already surface hits on the resolution tables.

A fair point, and the auto crits from weapon battery size/spinals should count too.

Some of those surface hits will damage your hull grid, as represnted in the rule.

Why would a different damage table be needed when the original one works fine?

The second rule in the quote above is too cumbersome in play, it would be easier to include a hull grid hit on the damage table IMHO.