Salvage ideas?

[davidence]

Hi All,

My PC's need a ship. While being marooned on a planet, I had them happen on to a Far Trader that had crash-landed 5 years hence. The ship is in a position to be salvaged.

Does any one have ideas around legal salvage? What hoops should they have to jump through? What licenses should they have to acquire, and how much should they cost?

I want them to have to work for it, but not make it impossible.

Any thoughts?

-David

 

[davidence]

Hi All,

My PC's need a ship. While being marooned on a planet, I had them happen on to a Far Trader that had crash-landed 5 years hence. The ship is in a position to be salvaged.

Does any one have ideas around legal salvage? What hoops should they have to jump through? What licenses should they have to acquire, and how much should they cost?

I want them to have to work for it, but not make it impossible.

Any thoughts?

-David

 

[aramis]

IMTU, salvage is tricky. They might be able to get it up and running, but it's gonna be at least 10 years before they can own it clear... and if it wasn't paid off, the lienholder gets it, and they get a percentage, but not the ship.

Salvage, though, would be a good down with the lienholder.... assuming there are no other claims against the ship.

 

[aramis]

IMTU, salvage is tricky. They might be able to get it up and running, but it's gonna be at least 10 years before they can own it clear... and if it wasn't paid off, the lienholder gets it, and they get a percentage, but not the ship.

Salvage, though, would be a good down with the lienholder.... assuming there are no other claims against the ship.

 

[The Oz]

IMTU salvors (people salvaging a ship) can get full and clear legal title to a ship they save, provided:
</font>

• They did not contribute to (that is, make worse) the incident that caused the ship to be abandoned in the first place.</font>
• No crimes were committed that contributed to the abandonment or to the salvage.</font>
• All the work needed to save the ship was performed by the salvors, except for any help from the laws of nature.</font>
• The previous crew/owner must have abandoned the ship with no realistic intention/expectation of ever returning to the ship.</font>
• The ship is not a military vessel.</font>

If conditions are met and the ship is salved, the salvors gain full and clear ownership of the vessel once they get the ship "under command" once again. "Under command" means the ship is flying under its own power and control systems, with a crew aboard operating the vessel themselves. Of course, the salvors don't get the paperwork showing full and clear ownership until they get the ship to an Imperial starport and jump through some bureaucratic hoops to prove they met all the conditions for salvage.

All prior legal claims against a properly salved vessel are dismissed: all previous liens/cargo owners are assumed to have been paid off by insurance (and if they didn't =have= insurance that's their loss). Of course, this doesn't apply to any non-legal claims on a ship, say those held by a local crime boss who paid for the "special" additions to this ship.

Note that none of this applies to any military vessel of any kind, even a 10 ton gig. All military vessels remain the property of the owning government, even if the ship is a wreck pasted onto an asteroid or frozen inside a comet.

IMTU the megacorps have tried to get this status for all of their vessels, but have not been able to get the Imperial gov't to agree, except for the case of openly and properly registered paramilitary vessels of the megacorp's security division.

Note that it is possible to save an abandoned ship without ever getting it "under command." You might tow the vessel to safety or just find a lost ship and report its location. In such cases the person(s) finding/saving the ship are paid (by the ship owners, who are usually covered by insurance for this) a fee that covers their costs (if any) for saving the ship, plus a percentage of the value of ship and cargo. The fee is paid once the ship has been brought to an Imperial starport. The percentage is decided by the local Imperial gov't and is based on how dangerous and difficult the saving/finding of the ship was for the person(s) doing the work. The percentage is never very large (1% is typical for low risk/low work jobs) but even 1% of the price of a starship is a nice chunk of change.

IMTU it is also legal for the ship owners to offer partial ownership of the vessel instead of a cash payment. The partial ownership is usually ten times the cash payment percentage. This is commonly done by the megacorps, which then use fancy accounting and even fancier lawyers to keep the salvors from ever seeing any payoff from "their" ship's profits. However, as partial owners the salvors can get cut-rate passages on the vessel, and ship their own cargo aboard for less than the standard rate.

This type of "salvage" is possible for military vessels and the salvors will be paid a percentage of the value of the ship. So while you can't end up owning that lost heavy cruiser you found in the Oort Cloud, you can get rich by reporting its location to the Imperial Navy. Of course, the military will never give "partial ownership" of a warship to any individual.

 

[The Oz]

IMTU salvors (people salvaging a ship) can get full and clear legal title to a ship they save, provided:
</font>

• They did not contribute to (that is, make worse) the incident that caused the ship to be abandoned in the first place.</font>
• No crimes were committed that contributed to the abandonment or to the salvage.</font>
• All the work needed to save the ship was performed by the salvors, except for any help from the laws of nature.</font>
• The previous crew/owner must have abandoned the ship with no realistic intention/expectation of ever returning to the ship.</font>
• The ship is not a military vessel.</font>

If conditions are met and the ship is salved, the salvors gain full and clear ownership of the vessel once they get the ship "under command" once again. "Under command" means the ship is flying under its own power and control systems, with a crew aboard operating the vessel themselves. Of course, the salvors don't get the paperwork showing full and clear ownership until they get the ship to an Imperial starport and jump through some bureaucratic hoops to prove they met all the conditions for salvage.

All prior legal claims against a properly salved vessel are dismissed: all previous liens/cargo owners are assumed to have been paid off by insurance (and if they didn't =have= insurance that's their loss). Of course, this doesn't apply to any non-legal claims on a ship, say those held by a local crime boss who paid for the "special" additions to this ship.

Note that none of this applies to any military vessel of any kind, even a 10 ton gig. All military vessels remain the property of the owning government, even if the ship is a wreck pasted onto an asteroid or frozen inside a comet.

IMTU the megacorps have tried to get this status for all of their vessels, but have not been able to get the Imperial gov't to agree, except for the case of openly and properly registered paramilitary vessels of the megacorp's security division.

Note that it is possible to save an abandoned ship without ever getting it "under command." You might tow the vessel to safety or just find a lost ship and report its location. In such cases the person(s) finding/saving the ship are paid (by the ship owners, who are usually covered by insurance for this) a fee that covers their costs (if any) for saving the ship, plus a percentage of the value of ship and cargo. The fee is paid once the ship has been brought to an Imperial starport. The percentage is decided by the local Imperial gov't and is based on how dangerous and difficult the saving/finding of the ship was for the person(s) doing the work. The percentage is never very large (1% is typical for low risk/low work jobs) but even 1% of the price of a starship is a nice chunk of change.

IMTU it is also legal for the ship owners to offer partial ownership of the vessel instead of a cash payment. The partial ownership is usually ten times the cash payment percentage. This is commonly done by the megacorps, which then use fancy accounting and even fancier lawyers to keep the salvors from ever seeing any payoff from "their" ship's profits. However, as partial owners the salvors can get cut-rate passages on the vessel, and ship their own cargo aboard for less than the standard rate.

This type of "salvage" is possible for military vessels and the salvors will be paid a percentage of the value of the ship. So while you can't end up owning that lost heavy cruiser you found in the Oort Cloud, you can get rich by reporting its location to the Imperial Navy. Of course, the military will never give "partial ownership" of a warship to any individual.

 

[parmasson]

IMTU salvage depends on how long the ship has been missing , if there are any heirs to the property in a will or if the title is still owned by a bank. Generally if the bank has written it off as a loss or been paid by off by an insurance policy they can register it and keep it. That being said it normally takes a big pile of credits to get it back in proper working shape. If they want to sneaky, Eddie the ship registration guy can offer to get them a "title" to the ship all nice and legal with a pretty seal and a free Fauxwood frame. The new title could create more trouble (fun) for everybody.

 

[parmasson]

IMTU salvage depends on how long the ship has been missing , if there are any heirs to the property in a will or if the title is still owned by a bank. Generally if the bank has written it off as a loss or been paid by off by an insurance policy they can register it and keep it. That being said it normally takes a big pile of credits to get it back in proper working shape. If they want to sneaky, Eddie the ship registration guy can offer to get them a "title" to the ship all nice and legal with a pretty seal and a free Fauxwood frame. The new title could create more trouble (fun) for everybody.

 

[Whipsnade]

Dence,

The others covered the legal end of the salvage biz pretty well. So I'll tackle your question from another angle.

IMTU, a ship that crashlanded on a planet five years ago isn't going to be spaceworthy no matter how much work the PCs put into it. There will be bits and pieces of the ship that may be useful and worth salvaging, but the ship itself is pretty much worthless as a ship.

There is a big difference from a ship salavaged immediately after whatever incident forced its abandonment and a ship abandoned over five years ago.


Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Dence,

The others covered the legal end of the salvage biz pretty well. So I'll tackle your question from another angle.

IMTU, a ship that crashlanded on a planet five years ago isn't going to be spaceworthy no matter how much work the PCs put into it. There will be bits and pieces of the ship that may be useful and worth salvaging, but the ship itself is pretty much worthless as a ship.

There is a big difference from a ship salavaged immediately after whatever incident forced its abandonment and a ship abandoned over five years ago.


Bill

 

[Liam Devlin]

Larsen has the right of this--a world wih a habitable atmosphere's effects on the vehicle are commensurate with corrosion, fauna & flora over growth upon it. Hull integrity may be compromised to the point the lanthanum grid maybe no longer able to sustain a stable jump field, i.e.

Animal/ insect life may have nested and destroyed hidden components linking key systems..

For worlds with Atmospheres 3-0, the Atmospheric damage will be less.

And if it was on a world with say, B or C atmospheres, the hazards of recovering it made it a write off then. Type B atmospheres [Corrosive] are especially hard on a starship 'just lying about' 5 years.

Hope these give some clues as to how to make it 'possible' to do, but a hard way to row to get her to a port.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Larsen has the right of this--a world wih a habitable atmosphere's effects on the vehicle are commensurate with corrosion, fauna & flora over growth upon it. Hull integrity may be compromised to the point the lanthanum grid maybe no longer able to sustain a stable jump field, i.e.

Animal/ insect life may have nested and destroyed hidden components linking key systems..

For worlds with Atmospheres 3-0, the Atmospheric damage will be less.

And if it was on a world with say, B or C atmospheres, the hazards of recovering it made it a write off then. Type B atmospheres [Corrosive] are especially hard on a starship 'just lying about' 5 years.

Hope these give some clues as to how to make it 'possible' to do, but a hard way to row to get her to a port.

 

[Ran Targas]

I've played this trick, ahem! I mean, run this scenario several times on players.

As previously stated, seldom is an abandoned vessel, particularly after a dynamic interface (i.e. crash), capable of space flight; otherwise it wouldn't be planetside in the first place. Plus think about all those body parts strung about, yuck! Whose going to clean that up?

But that doesn't proclude any small craft onboard from being space worthy, especially if they've been locked up in a nice, airtight landing bay for the duration. Granted, this solution isn't going to get them out of the system, but it is a way to get them to explore the rest of the system for anything of interest. And solar systems are big places, just look at ours!

If they were following a registered flight plan then someone from the local patrol will coming looking for them eventually; you can use that time to let them get into a little local trouble. Maybe there's some trigger happy belters on the look out for claim jumpers, or sneaky pirate types rendevousing with their fence, or alien slavers out looking for easy prey, or other such excitement waiting for them in orbit. Maybe there's a slightly used Type S out there just waiting to be commandeered, with a little effort or gun play.

It will definitely bring a new dimension to the game without just handing them a ship out of pity. You've got the right idea, make them work for it!

 

[Ran Targas]

I've played this trick, ahem! I mean, run this scenario several times on players.

As previously stated, seldom is an abandoned vessel, particularly after a dynamic interface (i.e. crash), capable of space flight; otherwise it wouldn't be planetside in the first place. Plus think about all those body parts strung about, yuck! Whose going to clean that up?

But that doesn't proclude any small craft onboard from being space worthy, especially if they've been locked up in a nice, airtight landing bay for the duration. Granted, this solution isn't going to get them out of the system, but it is a way to get them to explore the rest of the system for anything of interest. And solar systems are big places, just look at ours!

If they were following a registered flight plan then someone from the local patrol will coming looking for them eventually; you can use that time to let them get into a little local trouble. Maybe there's some trigger happy belters on the look out for claim jumpers, or sneaky pirate types rendevousing with their fence, or alien slavers out looking for easy prey, or other such excitement waiting for them in orbit. Maybe there's a slightly used Type S out there just waiting to be commandeered, with a little effort or gun play.

It will definitely bring a new dimension to the game without just handing them a ship out of pity. You've got the right idea, make them work for it!

 

[Whipsnade]

Just so Ran won't get tagged with being the thread ender this time...

Dence, have you thought about getting your players into the salvage business? Like Ran said, a solar system is a big place so just think of all the salvage and/or scrap the PCs can hunt down.

Hook them up with a patron. He has a jump de-rated Beowulf he needs flown around Arglebargle-IX poking into wrecks, but he doesn't have a crew. Your PCs crew the ship for him and provide the muscel while he points out the wrecks and teachs them a little about the trade. Bingo, they're on their way to 'earning' a ship!

In the meantime, they're crawling all over pranged traders, shuttles, seekers, and whatnot all across the system, striping good parts out, leaving bad parts behind, working on airless rocks, working in humid swamps, working on ice sheets, dodging animals, dodging bullets, facing up to other salvage crews, seeing off squatters, and engaging in all sorts of good old roleplaying fun.

If they do a good job, their grateful patron has lots of contacts. Maybe there's a subbie captain who needs a crew? Maybe there's a government with a subbie that needs a captain and crew? Maybe there's a little old lady from Pasadena who'll sell her controlling interest that Marava to some 'nice boys' in return for a slice of the profits?

Salvage can be the stepping stone you need, just not in the way that you think!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Just so Ran won't get tagged with being the thread ender this time...

Dence, have you thought about getting your players into the salvage business? Like Ran said, a solar system is a big place so just think of all the salvage and/or scrap the PCs can hunt down.

Hook them up with a patron. He has a jump de-rated Beowulf he needs flown around Arglebargle-IX poking into wrecks, but he doesn't have a crew. Your PCs crew the ship for him and provide the muscel while he points out the wrecks and teachs them a little about the trade. Bingo, they're on their way to 'earning' a ship!

In the meantime, they're crawling all over pranged traders, shuttles, seekers, and whatnot all across the system, striping good parts out, leaving bad parts behind, working on airless rocks, working in humid swamps, working on ice sheets, dodging animals, dodging bullets, facing up to other salvage crews, seeing off squatters, and engaging in all sorts of good old roleplaying fun.

If they do a good job, their grateful patron has lots of contacts. Maybe there's a subbie captain who needs a crew? Maybe there's a government with a subbie that needs a captain and crew? Maybe there's a little old lady from Pasadena who'll sell her controlling interest that Marava to some 'nice boys' in return for a slice of the profits?

Salvage can be the stepping stone you need, just not in the way that you think!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

There was an excellent program a while back on the Discovery Channel, I think, that followed a real-life salvage company as they attempted to get a whacking big ship off some gawdforsaken beach in Alaska. Part of what was interesting was the sheer variety of life-threatening hassles and misfortunes that had to be dealt with; the other interesting part was the particular variety of lunatics who took to the job!

For a while I thought of turning the whole thing into a little Traveller scenario. As is often the case, Mr Whipsnade has presented a whole campaign-full of ideas based on a seemingly simple theme. Many thanks!

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

There was an excellent program a while back on the Discovery Channel, I think, that followed a real-life salvage company as they attempted to get a whacking big ship off some gawdforsaken beach in Alaska. Part of what was interesting was the sheer variety of life-threatening hassles and misfortunes that had to be dealt with; the other interesting part was the particular variety of lunatics who took to the job!

For a while I thought of turning the whole thing into a little Traveller scenario. As is often the case, Mr Whipsnade has presented a whole campaign-full of ideas based on a seemingly simple theme. Many thanks!

 

[The Oz]

I've used the idea of salvaging a ship in my campaigns a time or two as well, that's why I have the legal aspects worked out in such detail.

And yes, I did once let the PCs find a really nice modified Free Trader dead in an asteroid belt (life support failure while waiting out a patrol) which turned out to be a smuggling ship for a sector-wide crime boss who didn't care diddily about the legal paperwork on the ship; he had paid for the "special" modifications and he wanted full value from that ship, no matter who officially "owned" it.

 

[The Oz]

I've used the idea of salvaging a ship in my campaigns a time or two as well, that's why I have the legal aspects worked out in such detail.

And yes, I did once let the PCs find a really nice modified Free Trader dead in an asteroid belt (life support failure while waiting out a patrol) which turned out to be a smuggling ship for a sector-wide crime boss who didn't care diddily about the legal paperwork on the ship; he had paid for the "special" modifications and he wanted full value from that ship, no matter who officially "owned" it.