Ring Worlds and Dyson Spheres revisited.

[McPerth]

Traveller Universe

Turning now to Traveller, a TL 27 Ringworld would not have such a primitive defense. Instead it would rely on direct psionic or reality manipulation for "ranged" problems. Closer in, Inducers, Pressors, Stasis guns and Disintegrators would take care of local problems. Suffice to say that there is enough surface are along the rims (inner, outer, top and bottom sides both) to field many many spine-sized meson gun clusters with Deep Space ranges. Finally, the ring itself is likely to have TL 27 screens: white globe generators, for example. A lot of them.

(bold is mine)

I don't see White globes as usable here, at least as described in MT.

White Globes, like Black Globes, are that: globes, bubbles. To make one for the ring it should englobe the whole ring (and so the star inside it). Smaller ones would absorb the matter touching them.

 

[McPerth]

System stats (per Ch#39 and T5SS) are given as X77A6BB–5, PBG of 310. T5SS lists 8 (!) other worlds.

It's entirely possible there's just a skeleton crew (relatively speaking) on the artifact, living in small (relatively speaking) pressurized compartments, and the Stalker population lives on a lovely world - Leenitakot proper.

See that Travellermap lists it as a doublé star system, so it's quite posible thet the Ringworld is in one of the stars (propably the smaller one) and the 8 other worlds and planetoid belt listed are in the other star.

See that , with those stats, the main world is not the Ringworld...

Also of note: 80% of the population is Chirper; only 20% of the 3 million (600k) are Stalkers.

IIRC many Ancient sites have Chiper population (assumed to be remains of the ancient's droyne population). I'd say they are the descendents of the builders (and, if any part of the Ringworld is functional, they may even live there)

 

[maksimsmelchak]

See that Travellermap lists it as a doublé star system, so it's quite posible thet the Ringworld is in one of the stars (propably the smaller one) and the 8 other worlds and planetoid belt listed are in the other star.

See that , with those stats, the main world is not the Ringworld...

IIRC many Ancient sites have Chiper population (assumed to be remains of the ancient's droyne population). I'd say they are the descendents of the builders (and, if any part of the Ringworld is functional, they may even live there)

Hi McPerth and Gang,

I have updated some of the pertinent articles at the Traveller Wiki:

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Leenitakot_(world)) ] World

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Outcasts_of_the_Whispering_Sky_(Stalkers)) ] Sophont Species

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Outcasts_of_the_Whispering_Sky ] Polity

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Category:Chirper ] Category of Articles with Chirpers including many Chirper-inhabited worlds

Hope that helps.

Positive vibes!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[McPerth]

Hi McPerth and Gang,

I have updated some of the pertinent articles at the Traveller Wiki:

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Leenitakot_(world) ] World

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Outcasts_of_the_Whispering_Sky_(Stalkers) ] Sophont Species

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Outcasts_of_the_Whispering_Sky ] Polity

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Category:Chirper ] Category of Articles with Chirpers including many Chirper-inhabited worlds

Hope that helps.

Positive vibes!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

The first two links don't work for me...

TY anyway

 

[robject]

I'm citing CT Adventure 3: Twilight's Peak here obviously. For those who don't have it handy: a physical (?) globe of Fulacin is augmented with holographic (?) display of nearby ships down to a resolution of 60m (scale: 0.1mm). Using control consoles nearby, the display is augmented (visually? telepathically?) to 100 times the previous scale. Using other controls, a representative (?) sphere can be made to appear, and moved within 1m of the globe. If this overlap ships and is released, the ship disappears leaving no trace or debris.

Ah yes, those sorts of defenses. I'd forgotten about them. Yes, those would be effective. Put them under AI autopilot control.

That thing from AD03, by the way, might be an Inducer.

 

[robject]

I don't see White globes as usable here, at least as described in MT.

I think you're right. The globe would have to be centered on the sun.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

The first two links don't work for me...

TY anyway

Sorry. I forgot that CotI always chops up entries with parentheses.

Fixed.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[McPerth]

Sorry. I forgot that CotI always chops up entries with parentheses.

Fixed.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

OK, now they work; TY again.

As an aside, the entry for Leenitakot says that its primary star has 1 planetoid belt and 4 GG, while the Travellermap tells 1 planetoid belt, no GG and 8 other planets...

As the entry in Traveller wiki puts all planetoids and GG orbiting the primary star, I guess my assumption that the ringworld orbits the secondary one is accepted there (though not specified).

 

[McPerth]

Junt another thing about Ringworlds that I just thought about:

While I'm not an engineer, nor an expert about those equilibriums, I guess that for the rotation to be equilibrated the mass of the Ringworld must be more or less even along the whole ring, or compensated at extremes at least.

If so, in order to even the mass distribution, maybe the 90+% hidrographycs I suggested make more sense than just a cheat to ease maping it ...

 

[Cryton]

(bold is mine)

I don't see White globes as usable here, at least as described in MT.

White Globes, like Black Globes, are that: globes, bubbles. To make one for the ring it should englobe the whole ring (and so the star inside it). Smaller ones would absorb the matter touching them.

Not quite. Traveller Aliens Module 5 details a hand carried artifact that can generate a partial black globe in the direction of an approaching threat to the one who carries it. It also functions as a disintegrator weapon when needed. As this hand-carried weapon/shield can generate a partial black globe, I would argue against any "Black/White globes are only globes shaped" arguments.

As for asteroid defense, the disintegrator system used for planetary defense in the Twilights Peak adventure (one that was found in a VERY small base), was one that was capable of removing an entire Zhodani fleet from existence in orbit as well as being selective enough to remove individual soldiers on the ground, would work quite nicely for keeping things from hitting the ring world and for removal of unwanted trash and/or guests.

 

[rancke]

Taking this as canon, it would seem the Stalkers are not under threat from fleets vying for control of the ring.

Plot idea: NPC finds an Ancient transportation device that will transport people to and from the Ringworld without the Outcasts detecting it. He gathers a group of PCs to go the the Rengworld and explore (and grab anything they find). Not being spotted by the locals is one of the problems.


Hans

 

[robject]

Not quite. Traveller Aliens Module 5 details a hand carried artifact that can generate a partial black globe in the direction of an approaching threat to the one who carries it. It also functions as a disintegrator weapon when needed. As this hand-carried weapon/shield can generate a partial black globe, I would argue against any "Black/White globes are only globes shaped" arguments.

So, my brain is not working. Yes, globes can have section cancellation, so that parts of the globe are not projected.

The question would be how practical it is, when you need one generator every 50km or so, and your ring has a 3 AU circumference.

The defense on Adventure 3 is probably similar to an Inducer. The Disintegrator appears to be less powerful, designed to boil away layers of armor (for example), while the Inducer appears to be designed to vaporize everything inside its volume of effect.

 

[Cryton]

So, my brain is not working. Yes, globes can have section cancellation, so that parts of the globe are not projected.

The question would be how practical it is, when you need one generator every 50km or so, and your ring has a 3 AU circumference.

The defense on Adventure 3 is probably similar to an Inducer. The Disintegrator appears to be less powerful, designed to boil away layers of armor (for example), while the Inducer appears to be designed to vaporize everything inside its volume of effect.

It would be my opinion that doing that would be as practical as ringing a dwarf star at 1 AU and building a ringworld. The waste resources that any ringworld represents in a Jump Culture, positively scream "Bored Scientist with unlimited resources". The real question IS did the ones building the Ringworld also develop White Gobles as well as the technology needed to build Ringworlds.

 

[robject]

The waste resources that any ringworld represents in a Jump Culture, positively scream "Bored Scientist with unlimited resources". The real question IS did the ones building the Ringworld also develop White Gobles as well as the technology needed to build Ringworlds.

Well good points all. So let's crack open the Book and see what we get at TL 27...

Inducers (TL 17) to 50 km. They're (relatively) short ranged, reaching 50,000 km by TL 20.

Jump, Hop (10s of parsecs), Skip (100s of parsecs).
Antimatter to any level.
System-wide raw matter transport.

White Globes (TL 20); white globes with the maximum range of 50 km is TL 22.

Stasis Projectors (TL 21) with a range of 500,000 km (2 light-seconds). At TL 23, range increases to 500 million km (30 light-minutes)... at which distance of course it is very hard to score a hit, but the reach is there. Similarly for Particle Accelerators and Meson Guns, Antimatter missile launchers, Disruptors.


After that, things narrow down. The following are possible with a civilization but not guaranteed:

Silver Globes (TL 22).
Planetary Core Energy Tap (TL 23).
Leap Drive (1000s of parsecs; TL 23).
Portals (TL 24).
Rosettes (TL 24).
Psionic Engineering (TL 25).
Capsule Dyson Spheres (TL 25).
Event Manipulation (TL 25).
Teleportation (TL 25).
Inertialess Drive (TL 25).
Stellar Energy Tap (TL 26).
Stasis Globe (TL 26).
World-Scale Constructs (TL 26).
Bound Drive (10,000s of parsecs; TL 26).
Reality Manipulation (TL 27).

 

[robject]

After reading up on Inducers, Disintegrators/Disruptors, and Stasis Projectors, it appears that none of these represents the weapon used in the Ancients' base in Twilight's Peak.

However, it does resemble a White Globe Generator (TL 20) with an extended range (perhaps TL 25), a Canceller option, a Foam option, and a Remote option.

 

[whulorigan]

Not quite. Traveller Aliens Module 5 details a hand carried artifact that can generate a partial black globe in the direction of an approaching threat to the one who carries it. It also functions as a disintegrator weapon when needed. As this hand-carried weapon/shield can generate a partial black globe, I would argue against any "Black/White globes are only globes shaped" arguments.

Also, in T5 one of the options for Globes is that a ship equipped with a globe can have it follow the contour of the "hull jump-grid" for those ships so equipped. Now a ringworld wouldn't have a jump-drive, but there is nothing to say that the underlying technology of the grid network couldn't be laid into the foundation of the ring-structure.

 

[robject]

... Now a ringworld wouldn't have a jump-drive...

...oh?

:file_22::CoW::coffeegulp:

After reading up on Inducers, Disintegrators/Disruptors, and Stasis Projectors, it appears that none of these represents the weapon used in the Ancients' base in Twilight's Peak.

However, it does resemble a White Globe Generator (TL 20) with an extended range (perhaps TL 25), a Canceller option, a Foam option, and a Remote option.

Nope, I'm wrong, wrong, wrong. The Fulacin defenses must be based on Reality Manipulation, and NOT a silly projected white globe.

 

[mike wightman]

IMTU the ringworld is part of the machinery needed to pinch off a pocket universe - it has nothing to do with providing living space, that is just a red herring and a throwback to 20th century Terran sci-fi...

It may not be one of Grandfather's or his progeny either - it may have been there left over by a previous advanced civilisation or construced since the Ancients era

 

[whulorigan]

Now a ringworld wouldn't have a jump-drive,

...oh?

:file_22::CoW::coffeegulp:

Well, Larry Niven aside, at any rate . . .

But you may be right - maybe it does.

 

[robject]

IMTU the ringworld is part of the machinery needed to pinch off a pocket universe ...

I've seen you post that before, and it's interesting. I'd like to plumb the depths of your insanity, there. This has potential, as one useful use for a ringworld.

So then, it's like a gigantic portal, perhaps. A method for creating a pocket universe by sucking a star 'in' to ... nothing. No defined exit point. So, one is created: a connection to a separate reality/universe which only contains the star and a bit 'o space around it. Presumably, one could then suck some planets into the newly formed P.U. as well.

Which has implications for how portals are themselves created. If you only create one portal, does it tend to want to create tiny universe-bubbles on the "other side" (because nature abhors a vacuum?)? (How do two portals get linked together? Is it easy? What's actually happening?)