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OTU Only: Regina's Fleet - your thoughts

Regarding monitors, weapon ranges and speeds, investments in ground versus mobile emplacements, tactical and strategic considerations, and the Art of Insystem Warfare:

A lot of this "comes out in the wash" -- cost effectiveness of various options will vary based on circumstances, and are mediated by whichever rules are in effect. Where rules have holes in them, we are free to speculate.

I suspect this will continue to go in circles at this level of resolution.
 
things comming up to my mind:

Much (most?) of the TI is away from the border and does not realy need a planetary defense Navy. As stated previously, Regina might be a Concentration point (Hawaii) for components of the IN that may be worth dozen(s?) of time its budget.

If I was Norris, I would try attracting to Regina IN assets rather maximizing the number of hull (BTW I account for Planetary defense are planetoid without M & J drive). A substantial part of my Naval budget would be invested in spare berths so that a couple of IN Batron called from unengaged subsectors would be concentrated home.

have fun

Selandia
 
Much (most?) of the TI is away from the border and does not realy need a planetary defense Navy.
Yes, that is a point that has been made before. The 3% is an average. This implies lesser military budgets in the interior and bigger on the border. The minimum budget for Imperial worlds is said to be 1%. If you think this is implausibly high for worlds close to Capital, for example, maybe the minimum is a figure mandated by the membership charter. Membership obligations may also be the main reason why Regina has two cruiser squadrons.

Anyway, the average of 3% puts a limit to how high a border world can go. Or rather, how many border worlds going up to the maximum there can be. For every world with a military budget of 10% of GWP (said to be the highest peacetime expenditure that is sustainable in the long run), you need three worlds (a tad less than three) with budgets of 1%.

As stated previously, Regina might be a Concentration point (Hawaii) for components of the IN that may be worth dozen(s?) of time its budget.
But expenditures in that connection doesn't come out of Regina's military budget. The Imperium pays for that.


Hans
 
I agree with you that building them would be cheaper than ships, but maintaining on a planet that has not the capacity to build them, I'm not so sure.

There's some complete nonsense right there.

Parts can be imported and stockpiled. Custom parts can be ordered.

"An astrographical oddity, two weeks from everywhere." -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/quotes?item=qt0404012

Staff can be imported and locals can be trained. If there were enough of these things, a small cottage industry would spring up around the maintenance of these things.

Why Louzy isn't a higher TL overall is a completely different thread, but that doesn't mean lower tech worlds can't have high tech enclaves for various purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkes_Observatory
 
The Imperium is TL 15

There can be stuff of TL15 on any world within its borders.

Any world with an IN or ISS base has lots of TL15 stuff.

Any subsector capitol is likewise going to have lots of TL15 stuff too.
 
The Imperium is TL 15

There can be stuff of TL15 on any world within its borders.

Any world with an IN or ISS base has lots of TL15 stuff.

Any subsector capitol is likewise going to have lots of TL15 stuff too.


QFT, as well as:

Whartung said:
Staff can be imported and locals can be trained. If there were enough of these things, a small cottage industry would spring up around the maintenance of these things.


Standard parts at all TLs up to 15 are available at any starport. They may be plug-and-play modules, but they're there.

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Why Louzy isn't a higher TL overall is a completely different thread

maybe it is. maybe it's actually tech 6 or something ....

Standard parts at all TLs up to 15 are available at any starport.

well ... I wouldn't do it that way. imtu they'd be highly restricted. tl15 is consumed almost entirely by imperial navy construction, and they track everything. can't just walk up and say, hey, I'd like a tech F powerplant for my third rate cargo scow that might go off anywhere, like to, say, oh, cronor ....
 
well ... I wouldn't do it that way. imtu they'd be highly restricted. tl15 is consumed almost entirely by imperial navy construction, and they track everything. can't just walk up and say, hey, I'd like a tech F powerplant for my third rate cargo scow that might go off anywhere, like to, say, oh, cronor ....
But according to the rules, any PC type owner of a third rate cargo scow (and any other kind of PC) can just walk up and buy a tech 15 power plant, so evidently things are different in the OTU.


Hans
 
evidently things are different in the OTU.

and another thing. imtu the imperium exercises eminent domain over everything with a jump drive. sure, you get to go play with it, but if they need it, they'll requisition and/or "privateer" it. they almost never do, but if a merchant has lots of tech 15 hardware, it might find itself garnering attention and occasional "assignments" ....
 
and another thing. imtu the imperium exercises eminent domain over everything with a jump drive. sure, you get to go play with it, but if they need it, they'll requisition and/or "privateer" it. they almost never do, but if a merchant has lots of tech 15 hardware, it might find itself garnering attention and occasional "assignments" ....


I imagine this is the actual case. If you have a problem with that, you take it up with your ruling noble.
 
and another thing. imtu the imperium exercises eminent domain over everything with a jump drive. sure, you get to go play with it, but if they need it, they'll requisition and/or "privateer" it. they almost never do, but if a merchant has lots of tech 15 hardware, it might find itself garnering attention and occasional "assignments" ....
I imagine this is the actual case. If you have a problem with that, you take it up with your ruling noble.
I suggest that it isn't the case in the OTU (that's what you meant by 'the actual case' right Robert?), but that some high nobles think it is. That way, if your adventure requires the exercise of such power, you can let the local noble do so, and if your adventure requires that the noble can't exercise such power, you can let his respect for Imperial Law prevent him from doing it.


Hans
 
By the same token what is to stop the government of a member world conscripting the civilian shipping in times of dire need?

Its own shipping is probably fair game. Ships registered on other worlds are probably protected by Imperial law. My guess is that there's a fairly low-numbered edict about not interfering with ships of other member worlds (except as provided for by laws and treaties).


Hans
 
"Normally" (noticed the " "?) ships "drafted" are actually bought or chartered and insured for war risk by the requisitionning authority. W/O formal agreement, it is called an expropriation and value fixed in the proper Court.

Of course, a quick look at WWI and WWII schemes will show various formulas across the time spectrum of the War as well as the broad Spectrum of belligerants & neutrals.

have fun

Selandia
 
After reading some of the material here, I kept trying to figure out which game system one is using, which economics system is being used as the base system, etc.

If we're talking about T4's Pocket Empires and Imperial Squadrons, some of what is being said makes sense. If we're talking about the split in budget as given in STRIKER rules, then we're looking at something that won't build a plausible Fifth Frontier War scenario.

The one thing I noted about the Fifth Frontier stuff and the T4 materials mentioned above, is that they will generate the same numbers of Battalions and System Defense Factors as are present in FFW. One thing about POCKET EMPIRES I noted a while back was that it translates RIU's into Credits and even sets a system for the exchange rates.

Now if you're working within that constraint, it will give you one set of numbers. If you're using High Guard and Striker, then you get another set of constraints.

As for Deep Meson sites - I have to wonder - do they even have an arc of fire? Firing THROUGH a planet's center doesn't seem to be any more difficult than firing away from the planet's center of mass. In addition, any site on the world can be "bore sighted" from any meson site. This means that space ports would already have been bore sighted by the guns themselves - making a planetary assault a dangerous business until ALL of the sensor systems are eliminated. Problem is - even a lone spotter watching the starport with visuals (the mark I Eyeball) can act as a sensor spotter informing the meson site where and when to fire, and where and when to fire for effect - which makes it an artillery piece which SHOULD be fielded by the Army.

If you're using IMPERIUM or INVASION EARTH as your foundation for the defenses of Reginia - then buying a whole bunch of ships, while nice, doesn't take into account the purchase of land forces in the form of Battalions, Armor, Grav Tanks, Lift Battalions, etc.

Until Marc Miller comes out with a system that permits one to budget the costs for fielding a battalion of men, etc - in addition to fielding ships - this is going to be a highly subjective task to pin down.

For what it was worth? When I worked on the issue of how much does a single Battalion cost, using GURPS GROUND FORCES as well as the other material in support of Naval ship building etc - I found that one Battalion in cost was about equal to three Destroyers. THAT is a cost sinkhole that makes me wonder if all these years, people have been arguing the wrong ratio...

It may very well be that the ratio of spending isn't 60/40 Navy to Army - it may well be that the costs are 60 Army, 40 Navy.

As someone else mentioned up thread - when you account for the cultural costs and governmental costs, what is left over for the military budget might not be all too high.

In all, have fun with the thread. ;)

In all? I would LOVE to see someone actually Design star port defenses as if they were usable in a Traveller game utilizing vector movement. MAYDAY actually gave rules for the "distances" for the big guns relative to High Guard as related to laser ranges. I'd really have to wonder just how well the planetary system defenses function in an actual High Guard game, if the defender has 8 T-Spinal Mount meson guns guarded by Meson Screens at Max level for all of them. THAT would be really NASTY.

Stray Thought: If you have a Black Globe surrounding a meson site, how would that work?
 
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