david.wendelken
SOC-12
There is some fine print on the map next to Corona and Princeps that I can't make out. Anyone else have better eyes?
Regina World Map in Imperial Lines #6
- Thread starter david.wendelken
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david.wendelken
SOC-12
Thanks!
david.wendelken
SOC-12
As I understand it, Duke Norris is the Duke of the Regina Subsector as opposed to the Duke of Regina planet. But he has his ducal estate on the planet.
Regina, according to the T5 rules has a Viscount.
Would that make a Viscount the traditional representative/ruling authority of the Imperium for the planet? With Norris as the Imperial representative/ruling authority for the subsector?
If so, the logical place for the Viscounty estates would be centered on Princeps.
Comments?
Regina, according to the T5 rules has a Viscount.
Would that make a Viscount the traditional representative/ruling authority of the Imperium for the planet? With Norris as the Imperial representative/ruling authority for the subsector?
If so, the logical place for the Viscounty estates would be centered on Princeps.
Comments?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Planets *host* Dukes. Not every planet that warrants a Duke is a subsector capital, but most are.
Every position listed in the extended UWP for Regina is present, and most are different people. The Viscount of Regina is just the most powerful of them once you look past the Subsector Duke. He may well have offices in Princeps, but that isn't necessarily the official Viscounty seat.
Every position listed in the extended UWP for Regina is present, and most are different people. The Viscount of Regina is just the most powerful of them once you look past the Subsector Duke. He may well have offices in Princeps, but that isn't necessarily the official Viscounty seat.
david.wendelken
SOC-12
One of my characters, Imaah Chehesti, got the Viscounty of Regina in the T5 kickstarter campaign. So I'm trying to flesh it out.
I figured where Norris Aledon and Imaah Chehesti could have served together.
It will make a great backstory.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Norris holds a stack of Titles, but they aren't all for Regina, the world. Nor are all of Regina's listed nobles Norris.
Regina's noble string is BcCeF.
The nobles who represent the world are a Knight, A Baronnet, a Baron, a Viscount, and a Duke.
Since the world is also tagged as a subsector capital, the Duke listed is the subsector Duke. If the world still had Importance 4 but was not the subsector capital, the Duke's spot would be specific to the world.
The Viscount is probably the result of the codes bumping the world up from a Marquis, but we'll need to hear the word on that.
The Baron is present because the world qualifies as "Rich".
The Baronnet is an anachronism in the case of Regina, as it retains the "Pre-Agricultural" tag. That said, the agricultural capacity of Regina remains the Baronnet's concern.
Norris is (by previous material) Baron of Yori (another world), Marquis of Regina (the world), Count Aledon, Duke of Regina Subsector, and later Archduke Deneb. Only one of those titles (Marquis) applies to the world of Regina. Norris' family has risen with Regina, but since he is the only one left in the main family line, the rest of the Titles "of" Regina are probably held by cousins, uncles, or aunts. The one exception is probably the Knight.
Norris also holds the family's Honor rank as Count Aledon, and if he had not been confirmed to his father's position as Marquis (or Viscount) and Duke, Count Aledon is how he would be known unless he was visiting the Moot, in which case he would sit as Baron Yori. As Count Aledon, he is probably the highest ranking Honor noble on the planet, but the UWP's noble string just applies to the nobles of the Moot, so we have no way of telling. Nor should we.
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But does he?
According to the canonical (pre-T5) description of the government of Regina, Norris has no say in it -- not even as Marquis of Regina.
Hans
david.wendelken
SOC-12
I wouldn't get all weirded out by Norris having a Marquisate instead of a Barony on Regina. There is always room for an exception to "the rules" in the big, wide universe.
I think the back story I'm working on would explain it, to.
I think the back story I'm working on would explain it, to.
I am not sure that this is necessarily true under the T5 ruleset (it certainly could be {and certainly was under prior canon}, but we need more info from MWM on the new Noble structure for the T5 interpretation).
The Subsector Duke may be the senior Noble of Regina (the world) as well (since an Ix= +4 world normally merits a Lesser Duke). It just may be that one of the added responsibilities of holding the Subsector Capital World as a Dukedom may include oversight of Subsector Government as well, similar to how a Sector Duke is a Subsector Duke with additional responsibilities at the Sector Level.
I wouldn't get all weirded out by Norris having a Marquisate instead of a Barony on Regina. There is always room for an exception to "the rules" in the big, wide universe.
This also makes for an interesting study of how Noble Titles work and how exceptions and oddities might occur. Let's say that (hypothetically) in the future Regina is eventually raised to "Agricultural" from Pre-Ag status. And let us also presume that all of the current Noble families are still in possession of their hereditary titles and lands. You will either end up with Regina still having a Baronet associated with it despite the fact that it is no longer a Pre-Ag world, or (if the "Ag" rating was due to the diligent efforts of the Baronet), the Baronet being raised to the appropriate (and deserved) title of Baron, giving Regina two barons instead of one.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I posited that the other titles are held by more distant family members because the Aledons nee Carandas appear to have been part of Regina for most of its Imperial history, and there is the note about a niece in GT Nobles.
On more turbulent worlds, or in areas with more noble backstabbing, you probably won't see one family holding the whole stack of a world's available titles.
An Aledon niece!?! That's a reference that I've overlooked. Could you give me the page number, please?
Hans
Are you suggesting that T5's nobles rules reflect an actual setting feature? That there is an Imperial institution headed by a Lord High Whatever-his-title-would-be that keeps track of the trade status of member worlds and appoint or promote nobles when a world gains a trade classification (and perhaps removes nobles if trade classifications disappear without another being gained)?
You know, I've been unhappy with the prospect of the nobles of the Third Imperium setting being changed into something different from what it used to be, but it hadn't occurred to me that the new rules are another example of those damn setting-rules-masquerading-as-generic-rules that so bedevil Traveller. These aren't rules for nobles; they're rules for nobles in one very specific kind of interstellar state. What good are they for detailing the Zhodani Consulate or the Solomani Confederation or the Terran Empire or the Argle-bargle Cooperative?
(Or the Old OTU? :devil
Hans
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Until there is some T5 Publication similar to the OLD CT:Library Data Articles or similar (perhaps in ImperialLines #7 - **hint to ImperialLines authors/publishers**
) that details the Noble structure in light of the T5 Ruleset, it is hard to be certain. I have been operating under the assumption (based on the way Nobles are presented in the BBB) that the Noble Land Grants as described are the norm for the Third Imperium under T5 rules (or at least for a future Galaxiad-era Imperium, at any rate). In response to your particular suggestion above, since particular (High?) Noble Titles in T5 seem to be preferentially granted to particular Trade Classifications, perhaps the Emperor decides (based on "Status of the Sector" updates from his Sector Dukes) to create new appropriate titles for worlds based on their trade-status as seems best to him. Those Nobles who increase their worlds' trade-importance thru their diligent efforts might be promoted/rewarded in just such a way. I wouldn't think Noble titles would be removed, however, because of the disappearance of a Trade Classification, unless for some reason the Noble in question was somehow partially responsible (and the loss of the classification was detrimental, and not merely a transformation). This would lead to legacy titles.
For example, a Marquis (who typically is associated with a pre-Industrial world in T5), might be granted a Countship (counts are allocated to Industrial worlds in T5) after the Industrial character of the world became established - especially if it was due to both his and his family's efforts. He might then be both Count and Marquis of <WORLDNAME>.
IMO, I don't think the Noble Rules as presented represent any state other than the T5 incarnation of the Third Imperium. The Zhodani Consulate or the Solomani Confederation would have to have something structured differently than what T5 presents.
I am waiting to see (once it is more fully detailed) whether or not a fusion of the old and new is workable (i.e. whether or not they can be made compatible and/or complementary). That is why I am hoping a future issue of ImperialLines will have a detailed article on the subject of the entire Noble Structure and Land Grant system of the Imperium (and/or other polities), much like what was detailed in CT/MT/T4/GT.(Or the Old OTU? :devil
Andrea is correct.
This incarnation of the map was produced in CC3/Cosmographer. The cartographer is discussing making it available in larger and other formats. The cartographer does not, however, feel he or she has the final say.
This incarnation of the map was produced in CC3/Cosmographer. The cartographer is discussing making it available in larger and other formats. The cartographer does not, however, feel he or she has the final say.
