Red zone Trade and travel

[Xenon]

mongoose Traveller has trade modifiers for freight and passengers going to and from red-zone worlds. red zone worlds include interdicted worlds.

looking at Gorram (interdicted red zone world, lunion subsector of the spinward marches), it shows that passengers want to arrive from jump-2 routes, and passengers want to leave from gorram to all jump 1 and 2 destinations, and fright wants to be shipped to most jump-2 destinations. the highest traffic is with Heroni in the mora subsector, which has a passenger value of 10 going to Gorram, and has fright value 6 and passenger value 15 arriving from Gorram. aside from smugglers, its quite possible that these numbers represent belters who could be legally mining asteroids around the gas giant, or in the belts. the only hard and fast rule seems to be that red zones are not a destination for freight.

What do most GMs do with interdicted worlds in their games? does your imperium forbid all traffic, or just restrict traffic to the gas giants and asteroids? there are a lot of routes that a jump-1 can only travel if they stop to refuel at a gas giant in a red zone.

 

[MCEvans]

Looking at the MT stats for Gorram (X554220-0) and its location on the Main.
I would have the system heavily patrolled by the Scouts and Navy. You Jump in and are escorted to the GG and then escorted to the out Jump point. ANY attempt to head for main planet you need to be a blockade runner, or carrying supplies for for the Scout Outpost in system studying this society. This could be an adventure hook or two.:devil:
As for other Red Zone/Interdicted that is a system by system breakdown. For an idea see Lewis/Aramis as done in The Traveller Adventure.

 

[Uxi]

IMTU, it's called smuggling.

 

[Ptah]

IMTU, it's called smuggling.

Same here.

 

[McPerth]

IMTU, it's called smuggling.

In MTU, it will depend on the reason of interdiction.

Trading with a world interdicted due to inherent dangers is legal, but at your own risk (maybe insurance don't cover damages, though).

Smuggling to an interdicted planet with a developing society, as seems to be the case here shown will be worse than simple smuggling. More or less as furtive hunting just because is on a private property, or furtive hunting protected spices.

 

[rancke]

Looking at the MT stats for Gorram (X554220-0) and its location on the Main.
I would have the system heavily patrolled by the Scouts and Navy. You Jump in and are escorted to the GG and then escorted to the out Jump point. ANY attempt to head for main planet you need to be a blockade runner, or carrying supplies for for the Scout Outpost in system studying this society.

Looking at the stats, I wonder why the Scouts are allowed to tie up an entire inhabitable world in order to study one tiny community. How much space can 840 people cover? Wouldn't it be enough to interdict, say, one continent?

Granted, Gorram doesn't qualify for Human-prime status, but it has a breathable atmosphere and a reasonable distribution of land and water; if it wasn't for the rather low gravity, it would be Terran-prime. That's a pretty valuable asset, and it's all being reserved for one small ailing[*] bunch of people?

[*] Yes, ailing. 840 people are not a healthy population, and it must have been in place for many centuries, being established before traffic became heavy enough for passing ships to find castaways before they decivilized completely. Also before potential settlers arrived; the Scouts must have interdicted the world before anyone could have set up a settlement there, so we're talking back around the 2nd Century at the latest.​

Note that I'm not saying that it's an inexplicable situation, the way some other worlds are (IMO) completely inexplicable. But it is a situation so odd that it cries out for a pretty creative explanation.

I would expect the assets dedicated to maintaining the interdict to be minimal. (Either that or have some deep secret that has to be protected, and that explanation is IMO getting real old).


Hans

 

[far-trader]

Strictly in my Traveller universe...

Travel Zone notes are advisories published by and updated sporadically by the Travellers' Aid Society in its Journals (free to members, part of the Library program subscription to others) along with the rest of the UWP and other news. They are not official in any capacity and may be out of date or incorrect but they do tend to influence business and travel because of their widespread influence. For the most accurate and recent data consult the appropriate authorities.

Amber Travel Zone advisories are for issues that may make the world an unpleasant, less profitable, or nuisance to visit. Worldwide precautionary quarantine policies, political unrest, complicated bureaucracy, etc. may all earn an Amber Zone advisory from TAS. These won't impede travel through the system but will make a Starport visit and local sightseeing less inviting.

Red Travel Zone advisories may be issued for any number of reasons, some for official interdiction, some for local conditions prompting stronger caution than an Amber Zone. In general shipping is not insured (part of the standard rates for freight) and a Red Travel Zone won't have any freight available to it for that reason. Speculative cargo is still possible, which may mean profiteers, smugglers, or simply entrepreneurs. And the odd Traveller may book passage. Reasons for a Red Zone Advisory can include widespread warfare (possibly even extending to 100d), active quarantine for serious disease (real or imagined), and occasionally Imperial (or other polity) Interdiction.

Interdiction is a special case and can cover quite a range of possibilities itself. It always means a presence of military ships to insure the interdiction is enforced. It generally means even visiting the outer system will be treated as suspicious. Approaching the world itself will be treated as an illegal act and suspicion will be upgraded to hostility.

With proper clearances one can expect to be delayed, searched, questioned... at length. Without clearances one will fare far less well. IF you're lucky, after a thorough search and interrogation, including several weeks in the "comfortable" brig while couriers check your background, you'll be sent on your way with a stern warning and a file in your record. Less lucky and you may also be fined, possibly severely, or your ship might even be impounded. It will depend on the reason for the Interdiction and your reasons for being there... presuming you didn't simply provoke them into destroying you outright.

In MTU:

Gorram is simply a rock ball with no facilities. The people living there are the last of a failed settlement that have reverted to a primitive subsistence living, a nomadic life of living off the natural providence (which is poor). No one has tried again because of the lack of exploitable wealth, which includes the biosphere, it is not conducive to a thriving human population. There is nothing of value in the system or world except for its being the link between (what I call) the Upper and Lower Spinward Mains.

The only traffic it sees are the rare Free Traders who decide to move their business from one Main to the other, and they generally just skip through it carrying an extra J1 of refined fuel in the hold rather than risk skimming or dipping and misjumping. There is no freight shipping in, nobody would buy it and nobody will insure it. The rare passengers in or out bound are there on their own speculative ventures or simply safari, some to see the primitives, some used to attempt to "rescue" these lost citizens but they are extremely xenophobic and put up too much of a struggle.

Extreme caution is advised if delivering or loading passengers as a wilderness landing will be required with its own hazards. Stories abound of ships being damaged or disabled by poorly chosen landing sites and conditions.

...more or less.

 

[rancke]

In MTU:

Gorram is simply a rock ball with no facilities. The people living there are the last of a failed settlement that have reverted to a primitive subsistence living, a nomadic life of living off the natural providence (which is poor). No one has tried again because of the lack of exploitable wealth, which includes the biosphere, it is not conducive to a thriving human population. There is nothing of value in the system or world except for its being the link between (what I call) the Upper and Lower Spinward Mains.

The only traffic it sees are the rare Free Traders who decide to move their business from one Main to the other, and they generally just skip through it carrying an extra J1 of refined fuel in the hold rather than risk skimming or dipping and misjumping. There is no freight shipping in, nobody would buy it and nobody will insure it. The rare passengers in or out bound are there on their own speculative ventures or simply safari, some to see the primitives, some used to attempt to "rescue" these lost citizens but they are extremely xenophobic and put up too much of a struggle.

Extreme caution is advised if delivering or loading passengers as a wilderness landing will be required with its own hazards. Stories abound of ships being damaged or disabled by poorly chosen landing sites and conditions.

Please note: This is not a challenge to your right to do whatever you want in your own TU.

Gorram is a source of fuel in the only system lying midways between two high-population worlds, Lunion and Natoko (This does seem to be the only natural source of through traffic; everything else except jump-1 traffic will bypass it, and jump-1 traffic will (IMO) be negligble). That alone makes it a natural place to have a fuel facility at the very least. It has a breathable atmosphere and is hospitable enough to allow TL0 people to survive on it. Granted, they evidently don't thrive there, but if a low-tech civilization can survive, even if just barely, an ultra-tech civilization can thrive. And I simply don't believe in an entire world with no exploitable resources. Fewer than average exploitable resources, yes; less profitable on the average, sure; but there's going to be something worth somebody's while. The air isn't even tainted; somebody would want to settle it, just to have a place to call their own.

And even if no one wanted it, the Scouts still wouldn't need to interdict the entire world in order to study a population of 840 people.


Hans

 

[Jame]

And even if no one wanted it, the Scouts still wouldn't need to interdict the entire world in order to study a population of 840 people.


Hans

Unless they're the population of researchers, and the number is being used to cover up the reason for the red zone.

 

[kilmore]

The Gorramites are godlike-psionicists who have evolved beyond the need for technology. They can sense when a Travelling starship comes within orbit of their world.

Due to the Imperium's policy of treating psionics as a horribly infectious disease, and anticipating that this population will soon perish without needing bombarding, the planet has been designated Red Zone.

Just my idea.

 

[Uxi]

In MTU, it will depend on the reason of interdiction.

Trading with a world interdicted due to inherent dangers is legal, but at your own risk (maybe insurance don't cover damages, though).

Smuggling to an interdicted planet with a developing society, as seems to be the case here shown will be worse than simple smuggling. More or less as furtive hunting just because is on a private property, or furtive hunting protected spices.

Wouldn't that still be called smuggling, even if the circumstances of doing it would cause a variation in the severity of punishment. IOW, smuggling to a developing society would be analogous to WHAT is being smuggled as far as determining the severity of the actual crime (smuggling nukes would generally be treated worse than smuggling a narcotic which would be worse than smuggling small arms which is worse than smuggling something otherwise innocuous - check local subsector/sector laws).

 

[MCEvans]

Who ever said that this was a human population? This could be a new sentient race that the Scouts want to watch and don't want some free trader messing things up. In that light who says that the UPP is still current?:devil:

 

[McPerth]

Wouldn't that still be called smuggling, even if the circumstances of doing it would cause a variation in the severity of punishment.

IMHO, it would be considered (at least) as smuggling with aggravatings. By keeping your RW analogy, it would be as smuggling weapons to a UN embargoed country, that would be (theoretically, at least) prosecuted by international law (if it ever goes really active).

IOW, smuggling to a developing society would be analogous to WHAT is being smuggled as far as determining the severity of the actual crime (smuggling nukes would generally be treated worse than smuggling a narcotic which would be worse than smuggling small arms which is worse than smuggling something otherwise innocuous - check local subsector/sector laws).

The severity of smuggling in RW developed societies is also determided by who do you sell your smuggled goods to. I guess it's not the same to smuggle weapons to be sold to small delincuents on streets than to a terrorist group active on the country.

I also see here an example on how things can change in several countries (I guess it's a matter of ununified Law Levels). The order of severity you tell here may be right in some countries, but in Spain (and I guess most of Europe, where possesion of weapons is severly restricted), smuggling small arms would be seen as worse than smuggling drugs.

PS: I know this post may be for some people nearing too close the blurred line among puting examples and RW politics. I beg your pardon if if someone thinks I crossed it. Not mi intent, and I won't keep on this line of discussion to avoid getting more into it.