Rating the quality of military forces in Traveller

[Enoki]

Has this even been considered?

What is the quality of the various military forces of polities in Traveller? Knowing this, and how various polities get their manpower, would open up a number of possible scenarios for play.

For example:

A heavily conscripted service might have lots of 'draft dodgers.' Or the poor quality of training, equipment, and life in a military in general might induce higher desertion rates. A military geared to one type of combat scenario faced with something very different might have problems coping with the situation. Even things like the social expectations of various ranks within a military could come into play.

Knowing more about all of this for the various militaries in the game would impact a lot of play and even character generation.

What qualities does the Imperium's military and its various branches possess?

I would think there is a wider gulf between officers and enlisted in the Imperial military in general, and even a pretty rigid pecking order among officers with the presence of nobility. I think that the quality of military units in Imperial service would vary widely with most being of average to mediocre quality suited primarily for occupation duties and a show of force. Many would also have far more social value attached to them than combat value. That is, a particular unit is one that, if you are a social climber and want to make rank and be seen, is one for the 'in' crowd and those of importance in the Imperial hierarchy to join. It would be like an exclusive club for the well-heeled.

At the same time, I could see there being a smaller number of units within the Imperial military that are top notch and used regularly for combat missions and difficult assignments. Those who really want an exciting military career facing danger and such would gravitate towards these.

Anyway, I think this needs far more coverage than its gotten.

 

[mike wightman]

Striker covers troop quality and the proportions , with the various major races being given modifiers to troop stats.

 

[Rupert]

Striker covers troop quality and the proportions , with the various major races being given modifiers to troop stats.

So does Striker 2, and also Path of Tears which does so at a high level and in the context of the New Era, and so has a strong interest in the quality of equipment as well.

 

[Enoki]

Thanks. I'll revisit those.

 

[Condottiere]

Interstellar militaries can pick and choose recruits, and have enough resources to train and equip them.

Planetary militias will widely vary, in all aspects of military quantification, especially, if they haven't had operational experience.

 

[Enoki]

Interstellar militaries can pick and choose recruits, and have enough resources to train and equip them.

Planetary militias will widely vary, in all aspects of military quantification, especially, if they haven't had operational experience.

I doubt that to a great degree.

First, it costs money to move someone from planet A to planet Z a bazillion (a highly technical and precise term) parsecs away. That alone means you don't get to pick and choose when you're running a large interstellar empire.

Oh, I checked the Striker rules. Book 2 has a very sparse section on the quality and quantity of military forces that doesn't give a lot of details, and also really doesn't fit what needs to be covered.

I see, for example, the Imperium, setting things up more like the late Roman Empire. The serious nobility--dukes and such--each are responsible for raising a certain amount of military forces to keep order and protect their part of the empire. The dukes then commission lesser nobles to raise certain military forces to meet this requirement. So, some baron or viscount is commissioned to raise a battalion or regiment of Imperial troops to a certain standard of equipment and training. They fund this however they want, from taking a portion of business profits to taxing the snot out of the population. Their unit is enumerated and often bears their name or a chosen name.

The Imperium itself also has a force of units made up of lifetime volunteers and picked troops, often ones who already have served in other units, like the ones above, for some time. These troops are worth the effort to move them to where they're needed as they are going to be there a long time and have proven their worth.

 

[mike wightman]

Troop quality is in Book 1, page 8

 

[jec10]

The countermix of the GDW Traveller boardgame Fifth Frontier War gives some insights (as does its sister boardgame Invasion Earth). Troop units have a possible rating of Elite that has beneficial game effects, but also for your purposes it identifies those units that the GDW team thought were of higher than normal quality.
In the case of the Imperium, for example, some, but not all, Imperial Marine regiments are considered Elite by GDW. All the battalions of the 4518th Lift Infantry Regiment (the Duke of Regina's Own Huscarles) are considered Elite. No units of the Imperial Army represented in the game FFW are considered Elite. No colonial units in that game are considered elite. Some mercenary units are considered Elite.

FFW also has an optional rule (p19) relating to Squadron Quality that introduces how GDW staffers thought of the relative naval quality of the various protagonists. For each side in that war, GDW says there is a standard and a low quality. The very best is Imperial standard quality (where more than half the squadrons in a fleet are from the regular Imperial Navy) - which gets advantages even against Zhodani standard quality (more than half the squadrons in a given fleet are Zhodani regular Navy). Zhodani standard then is superior to Imperial low (where at least half the squadrons are Imperial colonial or allied). Imperial low is then superior to Zhodani low (where at least half the squadrons are Zhodani colonial, Vargr, Sword Worlds or other allied).

 

[Chris Barlow]

Has this even been considered?

What is the quality of the various military forces of polities in Traveller? Knowing this, and how various polities get their manpower, would open up a number of possible scenarios for play.

For example:

A heavily conscripted service might have lots of 'draft dodgers.' Or the poor quality of training, equipment, and life in a military in general might induce higher desertion rates. A military geared to one type of combat scenario faced with something very different might have problems coping with the situation. Even things like the social expectations of various ranks within a military could come into play.

Knowing more about all of this for the various militaries in the game would impact a lot of play and even character generation.

What qualities does the Imperium's military and its various branches possess?

I would think there is a wider gulf between officers and enlisted in the Imperial military in general, and even a pretty rigid pecking order among officers with the presence of nobility. I think that the quality of military units in Imperial service would vary widely with most being of average to mediocre quality suited primarily for occupation duties and a show of force. Many would also have far more social value attached to them than combat value. That is, a particular unit is one that, if you are a social climber and want to make rank and be seen, is one for the 'in' crowd and those of importance in the Imperial hierarchy to join. It would be like an exclusive club for the well-heeled.

At the same time, I could see there being a smaller number of units within the Imperial military that are top notch and used regularly for combat missions and difficult assignments. Those who really want an exciting military career facing danger and such would gravitate towards these.

Anyway, I think this needs far more coverage than its gotten.

The odd thing about the Classic traveller and Mongoose traveller core rule books. Is that neither have the draft as it was understood on 19th and 20th century Europe, Japan and to a lesser extent North America. NO every adult male at 18 does 12 to 24 months compulsory military service in peacetime, or until the war ends in wartime. Instead the draft is how to choose a career that avoids being a drifter for one or more terms.

Does anyone know of any rules supplements or articles that covers the "I was drafted into the army/marines for two of the most boring two years of my life". Which by the way was roughly my Uncle George's description of two years with the British Army's Royal Engineers, equivalent of the United States Army's Corp of Engineers, but a lot less prestigious. My Uncle Peter's two years was as British Royal Airforce ground crew, so less boring.

 

[Enoki]

The odd thing about the Classic traveller and Mongoose traveller core rule books. Is that neither have the draft as it was understood on 19th and 20th century Europe, Japan and to a lesser extent North America. NO every adult male at 18 does 12 to 24 months compulsory military service in peacetime, or until the war ends in wartime. Instead the draft is how to choose a career that avoids being a drifter for one or more terms.

Does anyone know of any rules supplements or articles that covers the "I was drafted into the army/marines for two of the most boring two years of my life". Which by the way was roughly my Uncle George's description of two years with the British Army's Royal Engineers, equivalent of the United States Army's Corp of Engineers, but a lot less prestigious. My Uncle Peter's two years was as British Royal Airforce ground crew, so less boring.

There really would never be such a need empire-wide in a Traveller universe. There are far more people available than the military would ever need. The military, even in time of war, has hundreds of billions of people to choose from and billions at the appropriate age to take into the military.

Now, it might be that some local system or subsector has to resort to a draft--that is the nobility running things does--because they have a quota to meet and can't do that without a draft in place. That is, you have some backwater, on the edge of nowhere, subsector with mostly low population systems with low tech levels so you can't fill the 3I's requirement for X number of recruits with Y education level, and T tech level as entry requirements.

I can't see the 3I, at least in peacetime--or for that matter any larger polity--wanting to draft individuals from low tech worlds with low levels of education. What good to a TL 12 let's say military is someone who grew up with TL 5 and barely can do simple algebra, doesn't understand half the words in a tech manual, and has never seen anything close to TL 12 technology? The military would spend several years just teaching someone like that enough basic skills to make them trainable. Why waste the time?

 

[coliver988]

re: draft. Perhaps instead of draft as compulsorary service, it used the meaning of a "premliminary version of a piece of writing" and was the preliminary career (to be determined randomly) before adventuring.

Just throwing that out there. As we know words, especially in RPGs, can be interpreted in a LOT of different ways, sometimes causing lengthy arguments.

 

[Condottiere]

Draft sort of resembles Federation Service, from Starship Troopers.

 

[Enoki]

re: draft. Perhaps instead of draft as compulsorary service, it used the meaning of a "premliminary version of a piece of writing" and was the preliminary career (to be determined randomly) before adventuring.

Just throwing that out there. As we know words, especially in RPGs, can be interpreted in a LOT of different ways, sometimes causing lengthy arguments.

I can see "compulsory" service being something on a world-by-world basis. This would be based on the law level and type of government the world has. The higher the law level, and the more dictatorial the type of government is would, I'd think, increase the probability of that. That is, a government run economy, a dictatorship or onerous bureaucracy of one sort or another, or one that is religious, could make some sort of public service compulsory as much to get the work out of every person but also to give them like several years of really intense brainwashing and propagandization to make them complaint with the government and ruler(s) of the world.

Toss in all sorts of labor camps for infractions of the law and you get a population that gets lots of time serving the government in one role or another.

Another variant is you have a traveller who is from a world with compulsory military service for certain individuals chosen by the government to serve. Not per se a draft but rather you were selected based on your suitability for military service (stats in game terms). That service is lifetime. That is, once in you're in until you die in combat or until you get too old to be useful on duty. This could be seen as a good or bad thing by the population depending on a lot of societal rules and conditions.
Where the traveller part comes in is you have someone who has done several terms and they roll up being court martialed or the like. They are given the option to have deserted and fled the world / system (feel free to figure out that backstory). They are now wanted back home and possibly elsewhere but are trying to make a living as a mercenary or whatever in a Traveller setting.

The rules, as is, leave lots of room for all sorts of options like that based on the creativity of the ref and players in developing characters.

 

[jec10]

Today in a large, high pop polity like China the draft (i.e. conscription) exists, but it isn't universal. And they run a hybrid system with conscripts and volunteers. The central government establishes quotas for provincial governments to meet in the annual draft. As a male citizen you have to register for service, but you might not be drafted. You might be required if a national emergency/war occured.

 

[Badenov]

My understanding was that in the original CT, first three books era, the Draft was a thing, and if you didn't get the service you wanted, someone would scoop you up in the draft. That implies a draft in all 3I worlds. MgT1's draft could get you into military, scout, Merchant (Merchant Marine), or Agent (Law Enforcement) careers, but I think CT only got you military career, merchants, or scouts.

 

[Enoki]

Think about this in terms of the 3I and travel in Traveller. If you need say 1 million troops for a war with the Solomani does it make sense to institute a draft in the Spinward Marches? It would take several years to train and move those troops to where they could fight. It's easier to raise them from the tens of billions of sophonts living in sectors adjacent to the Solomani border. Short term conscription might be necessary for such an occasion, but normally the military's needs could be filled by volunteers alone.

The distances are too immense, the tech levels too varied, even language could be a problem. I see the 3I doing more on the Roman model when it comes to a military. The central government has a picked force, often selected from troops and officers that have proven themselves, that are long-term professionals for their use. The bulk of the military are forces raised by sector and subsector nobles for use locally.

Even things like naval forces (aka "expensive") would be mostly local except for a small number of big credit warships that make up the "battleline." Most of the ships are smaller cruisers or other flotsam for anti-piracy, convoy escort, and things like anti-smuggling and customs work.

 

[kilemall]

I doubt that to a great degree.

First, it costs money to move someone from planet A to planet Z a bazillion (a highly technical and precise term) parsecs away. That alone means you don't get to pick and choose when you're running a large interstellar empire.

Oh, I checked the Striker rules. Book 2 has a very sparse section on the quality and quantity of military forces that doesn't give a lot of details, and also really doesn't fit what needs to be covered.

I see, for example, the Imperium, setting things up more like the late Roman Empire. The serious nobility--dukes and such--each are responsible for raising a certain amount of military forces to keep order and protect their part of the empire. The dukes then commission lesser nobles to raise certain military forces to meet this requirement. So, some baron or viscount is commissioned to raise a battalion or regiment of Imperial troops to a certain standard of equipment and training. They fund this however they want, from taking a portion of business profits to taxing the snot out of the population. Their unit is enumerated and often bears their name or a chosen name.

The Imperium itself also has a force of units made up of lifetime volunteers and picked troops, often ones who already have served in other units, like the ones above, for some time. These troops are worth the effort to move them to where they're needed as they are going to be there a long time and have proven their worth.

Striker was geared more for the merc company. Utilizing locals and training them up as cheap fodder is a core mechanic hence all the focus on local ticket recruiting and supporting the few higher tech multiplier weapons on lower tech worlds. The game challenge is to structure and operate the org to be able to win while remaining profitable.

That could be scaled up for a large occupational army, and with law levels as a disarmament mechanic lower tech armies might be able to be used on higher TL worlds. But even with such ‘cost savings’ it’s not a smart way to empire.

The original LBBs didn’t have the Imperium, it’s just a mechanic to move chargen along. Shouldn’t be seen as some sort of universal draft either, just a path to careers that result in Travellers, not mall guards.

My solution is to incorporate the CotI careers, and if draft is called for roll 1d6- 1-2 is LBB1 careers, 3-4 is the first page of CotI careers and 5-6 is the second page. Then roll 1d6 for which career on that page.

 

[Enoki]

Striker was geared more for the merc company. Utilizing locals and training them up as cheap fodder is a core mechanic hence all the focus on local ticket recruiting and supporting the few higher tech multiplier weapons on lower tech worlds. The game challenge is to structure and operate the org to be able to win while remaining profitable.

That could be scaled up for a large occupational army, and with law levels as a disarmament mechanic lower tech armies might be able to be used on higher TL worlds. But even with such ‘cost savings’ it’s not a smart way to empire.

The original LBBs didn’t have the Imperium, it’s just a mechanic to move chargen along. Shouldn’t be seen as some sort of universal draft either, just a path to careers that result in Travellers, not mall guards.

My solution is to incorporate the CotI careers, and if draft is called for roll 1d6- 1-2 is LBB1 careers, 3-4 is the first page of CotI careers and 5-6 is the second page. Then roll 1d6 for which career on that page.

The historical norm for armies doing colonial expansion or conquest for an empire is to have a core force of well-trained and equipped professionals that can be trusted fully supplemented by a large number of local auxiliaries to bulk up the numbers. This is as true for the Romans as it is for the British or, for that matter, the Spanish conquistadors.

The auxiliaries are more like a cross between mercenaries and militia than career soldiers. The mercenary part is they were already trained to some degree in whatever the local tactics and weapons of warfare are, and they are often defending their home turf against other locals they hate making them something like militia. The outside professionals might be paying them for service, or they may have volunteered to get even with what they see as their local enemies. The professionals don't mix the locals into their units, but rather simply have them fight alongside them often serving, if no other purpose, as cannon fodder.

 

[Condottiere]

If it's Traveller, cadre tickets are cheaper.

If it's a crisis, than you import complete mercenary units.

 

[jec10]

Invasion: Earth has some insights into elite units in the Solomani Confederation military. The SG (presumably Solomani Guard) has two elite grav tank regiments, and an elite grav cavalry regiment. Separately, there are two elite Solomani special forces regiments labeled 1 and 2 AI.
Interestingly the 82nd and 101st Jump Troops Divisions (which seem to be direct lineal descendants to the US military 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions) are not elite.

In the Imperial countermix we see a couple of elite Marine regiments. For the first time we also see an elite Imperial Army unit (a jump troops division) and an elite Colonial unit (a grav tank division) - so they do exist.