P
Prospero
Guest
In a military organization like the Imperial Navy, what rank is required to be the captain of a ship? Presumably it varies witht the size of the ship. Any thoughts?
O(log(tonnage))+1
Round up or down as a variable
This would make:
50 tun gunboat: O2 or O3
400 ton lucifer class destroyer escort: O3 or O4
3000 ton sabreworlf class destroyer: O4 or O5
60000 ton lightning class frontier cruiser: O5 or O6
400000 ton perisher class dreadnaught: O6 or O7
Just a quick thumbrule I made up; tweak to taste.
More realistically, management rules assume that you need 1 manager for every 7 people under them, so you have log-base-seven(crew). Assuming that O1 is a "trainee" level, assume O2 is a manager of 7 crewmen and work on up from there.
Round up or down as a variable
This would make:
50 tun gunboat: O2 or O3
400 ton lucifer class destroyer escort: O3 or O4
3000 ton sabreworlf class destroyer: O4 or O5
60000 ton lightning class frontier cruiser: O5 or O6
400000 ton perisher class dreadnaught: O6 or O7
Just a quick thumbrule I made up; tweak to taste.
More realistically, management rules assume that you need 1 manager for every 7 people under them, so you have log-base-seven(crew). Assuming that O1 is a "trainee" level, assume O2 is a manager of 7 crewmen and work on up from there.
P
Prospero
Guest
Thanks for the ideas
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I use:
</font>
</font>
- Lt. Jg: 400-800 dTons SDB's, Couriers, etc.</font>
- Lt. Sg: 1000-2000 dTon Destroy Escorts, etc.</font>
- Lt. Commander: 5000-10000 dTon Destroyers, Fleet Escorts, etc.</font>
- Commander: 20000-30000 dTon Light Cruisers</font>
- Captain: 50000-100000 dTon Cruisers; DesRon Commander.</font>
- ???: There needs to be a Senior Captain or Master Captain rank for battleships. IMTU: I use Master Captain (somewhat similar to Honoverse's Captain of the List).</font>
- Commodore: CruRon Commander.</font>
- Rear Admiral: BatRon Commander. IMTU Rank.</font>
- Fleet Admiral: Commander of Multiple Squadrons.</font>
BrennanHawkwood
SOC-12
For those of us that use fighters in our games are there are any rule-of-thumb organizations / command structures that would be recommended for them?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
The old CT LBB5, High Guard had more rank definitions:
O1 - Ensign (basic rank 1)
O2 - Sublieutenant (basic rank 1)
O3 - Lieutenant (basic rank 2)
O4 - Lieutenant Commander (basic rank 3)
O5 - Commander (basic rank 4)
O6 - Captain (basic rank 5)
O7 - Commodore (basic rank 6)
O8 - Fleet Admiral (basic rank 6)
O9 - Sector Admiral (basic rank 6)
O10- Grand Admiral (basic rank 6)
I'd say the required rank would be dependant on the number of crew commanded. An easy method would be use the crew number for the ship and add 1 to it for the minimum rank. So...
Lieutenants (rank 2) may command 1-9 crew (USP 1).
Lt. Commanders (rank 3) may command 10-99 crew (USP 2).
Commanders (rank 4) are required for 100-999 crew (USP 3)
Captains (rank 5) may command 1000-9999 crew (USP 4)
Commodores (rank 6) are required for 10,000+ crew (USP 5)*
Fleet Admirals are required for fleets (of course) where the total crew USP of all ships acting in concert is 6 or more. Ships only of course, not boats (i.e. small craft).
These are the minimums, nothing saying a Grand Admiral couldn't command a Fleet Courier with it's crew of 5
*USP 5 for crew is as high as High Guard goes
O1 - Ensign (basic rank 1)
O2 - Sublieutenant (basic rank 1)
O3 - Lieutenant (basic rank 2)
O4 - Lieutenant Commander (basic rank 3)
O5 - Commander (basic rank 4)
O6 - Captain (basic rank 5)
O7 - Commodore (basic rank 6)
O8 - Fleet Admiral (basic rank 6)
O9 - Sector Admiral (basic rank 6)
O10- Grand Admiral (basic rank 6)
I'd say the required rank would be dependant on the number of crew commanded. An easy method would be use the crew number for the ship and add 1 to it for the minimum rank. So...
Lieutenants (rank 2) may command 1-9 crew (USP 1).
Lt. Commanders (rank 3) may command 10-99 crew (USP 2).
Commanders (rank 4) are required for 100-999 crew (USP 3)
Captains (rank 5) may command 1000-9999 crew (USP 4)
Commodores (rank 6) are required for 10,000+ crew (USP 5)*
Fleet Admirals are required for fleets (of course) where the total crew USP of all ships acting in concert is 6 or more. Ships only of course, not boats (i.e. small craft).
These are the minimums, nothing saying a Grand Admiral couldn't command a Fleet Courier with it's crew of 5
*USP 5 for crew is as high as High Guard goes
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
The pilot must be an officer. So an Ensign or better and while technically in command they aren't called Captain. It's only a boat, not a ship. The rest of the crew need only be enlisted personnel.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello all,
The senior person in charge of a vessel, regardless of the vessel's size or the person's rank, is traditionally called Captain. An E1 in charge of a row boat could technically be called a Captain. Other than that I like the various systems that others have suggested here.
The senior person in charge of a vessel, regardless of the vessel's size or the person's rank, is traditionally called Captain. An E1 in charge of a row boat could technically be called a Captain. Other than that I like the various systems that others have suggested here.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Yeah, technically correct, I've just always found it a bit pretentious is all I meant
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening far-trader,
Unfortunately, a lot of military tradition, in my view and experience, is pretentious to some degree. My example of the E-1 in charge of a row boat was very pretentious and would probably not happen in the real world.
Unfortunately, a lot of military tradition, in my view and experience, is pretentious to some degree. My example of the E-1 in charge of a row boat was very pretentious and would probably not happen in the real world.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Evening back at you Tom,
True, and I did take it as an extreme example, and not likely either
I was just trying and failing at being clear about it
True, and I did take it as an extreme example, and not likely either
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Morning Dan "far-trader" Burns,
I was probably the only one who missed your point, after all I'm a retired sub sailor who more often than not misses the obvious
.
On another note, congratualtions on winning JTAS Design Contest 26.
I was probably the only one who missed your point, after all I'm a retired sub sailor who more often than not misses the obvious
.On another note, congratualtions on winning JTAS Design Contest 26.
Originally posted by far-trader:
Evening back at you Tom,
True, and I did take it as an extreme example, and not likely eitherI was just trying and failing at being clear about it
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No problem, and thanks. I... WHAT! I won!?Originally posted by Thomas Rux:
Morning Dan "far-trader" Burns,
I was probably the only one who missed your point, after all I'm a retired sub sailor who more often than not misses the obvious
On another note, congratualtions on winning JTAS Design Contest 26.
<open new window, load contest thread> Umm, how odd, when I first glanced at today's active topics I saw the contest announcement and was sure it said you'd won. Teach me to read while my eyes are still unfocused. Maybe I need glasses
the basic pilot would be an O-1 or O-2.
a flight of 4 (or similar grouping) would be lead by an O-3.
the squadron (usually 12-24) would have an O-5 in the lead.
the wing (3-6 squadrons) would be under an O-6.
in US carriers, the ship is under the command of one O-6, the carrier wing under the command of another O-6.
both are lead by the admiral (O-8 in real life, O-7 in traveller) in charge of the carrier battle group.
IMTU, the battleships were always part of the batron, therefore the fighters carried were under the admiral. the BB's never operated alone. cruisers could carry a fighter squadron, esp. BC's, but they were lead by an O-5 under the ship's captain (an O-6).
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Howdy Dan,
Well, I use glasses for focusing and drink coffee before reading the boards. Unfortuantely, I still have trouble reading some mornings. I usually blame stuff on web gremlins . Again congratualtions on winning the contest.
<open new window, load contest thread>
Umm, how odd, when I first glanced at today's active topics I saw the contest announcement and was sure it said you'd won. Teach me to read while my eyes are still unfocused. Maybe I need glasses </font>[/QUOTE]
Well, I use glasses for focusing and drink coffee before reading the boards. Unfortuantely, I still have trouble reading some mornings. I usually blame stuff on web gremlins
. Again congratualtions on winning the contest.No problem, and thanks. I... WHAT! I won!?Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Thomas Rux:
Morning Dan "far-trader" Burns,
I was probably the only one who missed your point, after all I'm a retired sub sailor who more often than not misses the obvious
On another note, congratualtions on winning JTAS Design Contest 26.
<open new window, load contest thread> Umm, how odd, when I first glanced at today's active topics I saw the contest announcement and was sure it said you'd won. Teach me to read while my eyes are still unfocused. Maybe I need glasses
</font>[/QUOTE]??? Why stick with Current military placements?
For that matter Why stick with current ranks. Yes I know it easy to identify with. but Why can't all the Star Trek Ranks be Army?
And why only one captain on board? I knew who was my Commanding officer in the army regardless which Captian came through the chow line. And if in a space battle would the visitin Captain know not to give orders. Or If Captain Blight order Scotty full Speed and Captain Kirk order impulse. Isn't Scotty aware of who is in command of the ship he on?
For that matter Why stick with current ranks. Yes I know it easy to identify with. but Why can't all the Star Trek Ranks be Army?
And why only one captain on board? I knew who was my Commanding officer in the army regardless which Captian came through the chow line. And if in a space battle would the visitin Captain know not to give orders. Or If Captain Blight order Scotty full Speed and Captain Kirk order impulse. Isn't Scotty aware of who is in command of the ship he on?
It's naval tradition. There can be an unlimited number of captains on board, but only one Captain. All the others get acting/honorary promotions one step higher. Serves no real practical purpose, but it's nice flavour.
As for sticking with current ranks, yeah, it might be fun tocome up with a new rank structure, and/or use a non-US system, perhaps combining both.
As for sticking with current ranks, yeah, it might be fun tocome up with a new rank structure, and/or use a non-US system, perhaps combining both.
Wrong. According to both the Naval Science 1,2, and 3 textbooks, 1980's printings, USNA press, and the 19th ed Bluejacket's manual, and the 1980's LPM, in the US navy at least, the OFFICER in charge of a ship is the captain; an officer in charge of the boat is NOT addressed as captian unless the hold that rank, but is offten referred to informmaly as "skipper", formally as the commander or commanding officer; an enlisted man (or warrant officer) in charge of a boat (or even a ship) is a coxswain (cock-sun).
Note also, same sources define ships as "surface vessels over 100 feet in length."
Traveller defines starships as 100+Td (which is, apparently coincidentally, about 30-33m long in several hull forms, so about the same length...) with a jump drive, system ships aka non-starships as 100Td or more without a jump drive, and boats/small craft as under 100 Td.
If we want to stretch the analogy... subs in the US Navy are boats, no matter the length... so sub useage (Commanding Officer/Skipper) would be assigned to non-starships.
In the US (and several other) Navies, Captain is both a title for a rank (US O6) and a title for a position (CO of a Ship). Coxswain is a hold over from the Royal navy, IIRC. Note that i have no clue as to the orrigins of "Skipper"... and am curious if anyone hhas sources indicative. (IE, anybody out there got an OED unabridged?)
