Ranges and Detection

[robject]

So, the current ranges for spacecraft sensors and combat go something like this:

0 - docked or mated
B - boarding distance (up to ~500m)
6 - 5km 'distant'
7 - 50km 'very distant' - edge of atmosphere
8 - 500km 'low orbit'
9 - 5kkm 'high orbit'
10 - 50 kkm 'beam'/'geosynch' - 0.2 ls - auto detect
11 - 250 kkm 'missile' - 0.8 ls - civil detection
12 - 500 kkm 'unengaged' - 1.5 ls - military detection
13 - 2.5 mkm - 8 ls - edge of tracking
14 - 5 mkm - outer edge of space combat
15 - 50 mkm - 'seige/standoff'


I think 'very distant' is a poor name; I'd like something like 'mesosphere' or even 'stratosphere'. Suggestions?


Marc's also got some sensor indicators. The range bands from 9 to 14 are not-quite-logarithmic leaps in EM sensitivities.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Band EM sensitivity Km L-S Weapons
9 0.1x 5k plasma, PA
10 1x 50k 0.2 beams
11 5x 250k 0.8 missiles
12 10x 500k 1.5 pursuit missiles
13 50x 2.5m 8.0 hvy missiles
14 100x 5.0m</pre>[/QUOTE]How should sensors be rated? By medium, range and difficulty, or just medium and range, or just medium and difficulty?

 

[robject]

As a side note, it seems that the lower-end range bands are more like MT or CT than FFS2. Here they are:

0-Contact
0-Reading. 0.5 m
0-Talking 1.5 m (adjacent square)
1 VShort 5m
2 Short 50m pistol range
3 Medium 150 meters combat range
4 Long 500 m longest practical rifle range
5 Vlong 1000 meters farthest you can see a person with any detail
6 Distant 5000 meters
(between 6 and 7) Horizon on most worlds
7 Vdistant / Stratosphere 50 km mostly a "map" thing
8 In Orbit / From Orbit 500 km

By my definitions, we can see an object which is 5 Minutes of Angle or more. At 50 km, that is 70 m in diameter.
At 500 km, that is 700 m in Diameter.

A million ton ship is about 250 meters in diameter. In orbit at 500 km up, we can't see it. There are mods for "glowing, bright, etc." Which can make it possible. Or use Binox.

So that means something with size code 12 isn't visible at range 8. However, it is visible at range 7.

 

[atpollard]

Why the strange progression? Why not make it a simple base 10 progression rather than an "almost" progression?

I like the basic underlying realism (the minutes of arc thing), the devil will be in the details - can it be played without a scientific calculator.

 

[robject]

The intent with the lower ranges is to match up with personal combat ranges.

I think the intent with longer ranges was to loosely match sensor breakpoints with CT tracking ranges. A posting from Marc in response today was certainly more regular. But is it really more playable?

One way he solved this was to insert two "half-ranges" at 250,000 km (range 10.5) and 2,500,000 km (range 11.5).

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">SID Range Units Range Name
- - Contact
1 5 m Vshort
2 50 m Short
3 150 m Medium
4 500 m Long
5 1,000 m Vlong
6 5,000 m Distant / Boarding
7 50 km Vdistant
8 500 km Regional
9 5,000 km Continental
A 50,000 km Orbit
B 500,000 km FarOrbit
C 5,000,000 km Extreme Orbit
D 1 AU Interplanetary
E 10 AU System
F 100 AU Oort
G 1,000 AU Deep Space
H 1 ly Light Year
I 1 pc Parsec
J 10 pc Subsector
K 50 pc Sector</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[robject]

The issue that range bands address is what you can do at what range. Regarding ship combat, there are these draft ranges:

9 - 5kkm 'high orbit' - energy weapons range
10 - 50 kkm 'beams' - 0.2 ls - auto detect
11 - 250 kkm 'missiles' - 0.8 ls - civil detection
12 - 500 kkm 'unengaged' - 1.5 ls - military detection
13 - 2.5 mkm - 8 ls - edge of tracking

Once you're at 5000 meters, you're in "boarding range". Once you've reached 500 kkm, it's a pain to shoot you out of space (and a real pain to go get you). When you're past 500 kkm, you're probably home free.

Another issue that range bands *could* address is miniatures combat. A factor of ten for range bands doesn't serve minis very well. But, neither does a range of 5 kkm... distances between 10,000 km and 50,000 km per hex seem to be the working targets.

 

[Anthony]

One way he solved this was to insert two "half-ranges" at 250,000 km (range 10.5) and 2,500,000 km (range 11.5).

Half-ranges, if used, should be 150,000 km and 1,500,000 km.

G 1,000 AU Deep Space
H 1 ly Light Year
I 1 pc Parsec

For consistency, we would have:
H: 10,000 AU
J: 0.5 pc (100,000 AU)
K: 5 pc
L: 50 pc

 

[Wol]

Whatever the ranges, starship combat to be playable with icons/miniatures etc needs to fit within a range bracket such that adjacent will be one range bracket less, and one range bracket on the other side with be 10 base hexes (or whatever scale is being used). Same hex might be one range bracket even less.

SS weapon ranges will then need to have various ranges within that main band to make it worth while (say 50, 000-500,000km, with some extending even futher 5, 000, 000km) This gives a practical maximum size table of say, 100 x 100 1 " squares/hexes/circles whatever That is 8 foot so smaller would be better.

Even so this only covers up to 4 range brackets with some distortion.

cheers

Wol