Range increments for personal weapons

[zensunni]

Is it just me, or are these unbelievably large?

A quick search on the net brought up ~50 m as the effective range for submachine guns and pistols, yet the range increment in T20 for those is listed at 45 m, making a max range of 450 m!?!

Now I know that in "real life" shots go further than the effective range of a firearm, but it is the point at which accuracy is supposed to be lost, so I'm having a very hard time imagining being able to hit someone about 9 times further than the effective range.

Or am I missing something in the rulebook?

 

[lightsenshi]

You probably are missing the +2 to hit per range increment. So at max range you are looking at approximately a +18 to hit.

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by lightsenshi:
You probably are missing the +2 to hit per range increment. So at max range you are looking at approximately a +18 to hit.

Erm, you mean the *minus* 2 to hit per increment...

Shane

 

[zensunni]

Originally posted by lightsenshi:
You probably are missing the +2 to hit per range increment. So at max range you are looking at approximately a +18 to hit.

I'm aware of the -2 to hit/range increment, which would make it next to impossible unless you've got a lot of bonuses to hit or roll a natural-twenty, but it just seems to me that it shouldn't be possible to hit, let alone do damage (unless it's explosive), at 9-10 times the effective range of a weapon.

I'd think it would make more sense to have the effective range fall within the fourth or so range increment, rather than have it about equal to one range increment. For example, this would make the range increments for a SMG and pistol to be more like 10-15 m. Sadly, Modern D20 seems to be closer to realism in this than T20.

 

[lightsenshi]

The range of the average hunting rifle (my father owns a 30-30 rifle) is in the neighborhood of a mile or more.

 

[CarlP]

Originally posted by lightsenshi:
The range of the average hunting rifle (my father owns a 30-30 rifle) is in the neighborhood of a mile or more.

The .22 Long Rifle round has proven fatal at ranges of over a mile, too. I wouldn't want to try to hit something that far out, but a round hitting the wrong thing is still going to do damage.

 

[Ellros]

There was a thread in which someone suggested halving the range increment for pistols and SMG's. I'm considering that for my campaign. I thnk it was one of the threads dealing with the TA1 weapon guide.

 

[notagoodusername]

I'm probably going to go even further and drop handgun base ranges down more than that. Even a base range of 15m for an autopistol gives a 150m max range incrememnt.

Derringers - 5m
Body Pistols - 8m
Holdout Autopistols - 10m
Autopistols/magnums - 15m
Gauss Pistol - 25m
Others - depends on what they are

The assault pistol will probably get dropped to 15m, and the SMG can stay where it is.

The round will probably traveller further than the x10 range, but after that range it is pretty much an accident to hit unless you are on the range with a super-accurised sports handgun (and they have higher base ranges to reflect this), or some form of incredible shot. The thing to remember is these are effective combat ranges when you are running about, popping up form cover and being shot at - on a range you can take the time to aim to offset the range penalties.

Just my house rules and opinion.


Shane

 

[pftmadness]

Hmmm..so what about on page 154 . It says damage from a weapon is reduced by 1 die after the first range increment, etc.
Well, wouldn't that mean that most personnel weapons will do 1-1=0 damage after their first range increment????

 

[zensunni]

Originally posted by pftmadness:
Hmmm..so what about on page 154 . It says damage from a weapon is reduced by 1 die after the first range increment, etc.
Well, wouldn't that mean that most personnel weapons will do 1-1=0 damage after their first range increment????

I believe that's just applicable to star/spaceship weapons.

I plan on adding something similar for personal weapons as a house rule (e.g., damage is halved at range increments 5-7 and quartered 8-10, unless the weapon is "explosive" or similar).

 

[Ellros]

Originally posted by pftmadness:
Hmmm..so what about on page 154 . It says damage from a weapon is reduced by 1 die after the first range increment, etc.
Well, wouldn't that mean that most personnel weapons will do 1-1=0 damage after their first range increment????

Starship weapons as mentioned, and of course High Energy weapons reduce damage per range as descrivbed in their descriptions.

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by Shane Mclean:
I'm probably going to go even further and drop handgun base ranges down more than that. Even a base range of 15m for an autopistol gives a 150m max range incrememnt.

Derringers - 5m
Body Pistols - 8m
Holdout Autopistols - 10m
Autopistols/magnums - 15m
Gauss Pistol - 25m
Others - depends on what they are

Look at the Snub, it fires a much slower round round than the standard autopistol.

Book 4 says this about the Snub round: "10mm, 7 gram bullets at velocities of 100 to 150 mps."

The standard Autopistol round, described in Book 1: "9mm round weighing 10 grams at velocities between 400 to 500 meters per second"

So you have the Snub round being lighter and travelling much slower. So, if you are mucking with ranges, the Snub Range should reduced also.

The pistol is designed for ship board use. Very short ranges as well as rounds designed as delivery agents, rather than damaging projectiles themselves. Remember that the original Book 4 Snub pistol had no slug rounds. Only tranq, gas, HE & HEAP.