Psi looks badly broken

[ljsteele]

The Psi stuff is broken, badly. I'm trying to convert from classic and I
just can't make it work.

Telepathy is broken. The feat/skill requirements make it impossible to
create a viable telepath, especially combined with any other sphere.

A character gets Y+Int bonus in skills. To avoid the Johnny One Skill
problem, D20 cleverly limits the amount of skill ranks you can possess
in any one skill to lvl+3 (for class skills) and (lvl+3)/2 for cross
class skills. T20 replicates this limit at T20:62

PSI skills are cross-class for everyone. They cost 2 skill points per
rank. (If the Hobby feat applies to PSI, then you could make a PSI skill
a class skill at a cost of 1 feat)

PSI skills have a minimum skill rank for use.

Assault, FREX, requires 10 ranks of telepath skill. As a cross class
skil, the character must be 17th level to have that much skill
(17+3/2=1-). With the natural PSI feat, you could be 15th level. It is
not possible without the hobby feat to get the discipline any sooner.
(With the hobby feat you could get Assault at 7th level (7+3=10). Easy
solution is disallow the hobby feat for PSI skills.

Telempathy, OTHO, requires 2 ranks. It could be learned at 1st level.
Read Surface Thoughts is available at 5th level
Send Thoughts is available at 7th level
Probe is availabe at 15th level

Note some mismatches here.

Level Feat Required Skill Max.
1 Mind Shield (Free) 2
Life Detection
3 Telempathy 3
6 Read Surface Thoughts 4.5
9 Send Thoughts 6
12 Open
15 Open 9 Can't take Probe w/o Natural PSI feat because you
must
have the
ranks meed for the feat the lvl BEFORE you get the
feat. T:188
18 Probe 10.5
21 Assault 12

Under current rules it is not possible to become a Telepath with Probe
before 18th to 21st level because of the feat requirements. Achieving
that requires staring as a psi at 1st level and using every feat but one
for telepathy. This just doesn't make sense for Classic Traveller.

Now let's look at compartive power:

Let's take a character who is PSI tested at level 1, can buy skills at
lvl 2, and thus 1st buy feats at level 3.

Telepath -- gets Shield free (maybe). For level 3, could get up to 3
ranks in any power (lvl+3/2 for cross class), but only has 1 3rd level
feat availalbe. Could get Life Detection only.

Telekenetic -- buys the _only_ Telekensis feat. Can get 3 ranks in it.
Thus can lift 10 grams, range is based on PSI, not ranks.

Teleporter -- buys the _only_ Teleportation sphere. Can get 3 ranks in
it. Can't teleport yet.

At level 7, telekenetic can lift 1 kg and (assuming maxing out skill)
and has a feat available.

At level 7, telekentic can t'port himself, and has a feat available.

At level 7, telepath has 3rd feat, Telempathy. and has only had to spend
4 ranks by lvl 6, but has _no_ feats available except bonus feats
granted by class.

Something just seems odd about having two of the powerful "obvious"
skills have only one feat and be limited by skill ranks, and have the
three "subtle" abilities be limited by feats and ranks. Humm, To get
Assault (T20 190), you have to be min. 17th level unless a prestige
class shows up that makes psi a class skill (Or the GM let you use the
Hobby feat (T20 105) to make it a class skill) and have spent six feats
(min. 18th level). Having this limited to 17-18th level sounds right,
but should it really cost 10 ranks (20 skill points), 6 feats, and be
useable only once per day?

I'd like to suggest this is broken. May I suggest this be errata'd to
make each sphere be a feat, but skills within be limited by rank. That
will cost skill points, but only one feat per sphere.

If you nix the feat restriction and replace it with 1 feat for each
sphere, then the skill rank restriction still keeps players from
acheiving the powerful stuff too early.

 

[Reginald]

Are you trying to make a dedicated psionic character? They initially planned to have a psion class included in the core rulebook, but as you can see, the book is already thick.

The best you can do at the moment is create "wild talent" characters, until they release a psionic supplement with psionic classes.

 

[ljsteele]

Are you trying to make a dedicated psionic character?

Not necessarily. I'm translating a character who bucked out on PSI power when tested at age 22 (pwr 12, age mod to 11) and got telepathy, TK, and Awareness when trained.

I can't see any way to get anything useful out of telepathy without making the character a dedicated psionic. The feats and skills required are just too expensive. TK, OTOH, is too easy. One feat and some skill now and then. Awareness is in the middle.

They initially planned to have a psion class included in thecore rulebook, but as you can see, the book is already thick.

As written, I'm not sure how you can get a non-broken Psi specialist. The major problem is the feat discrepancy. If you give one psi feat per two levels, FREX, that's great for the telepath, but does nothing useful for the TK or T'porter.

As it sits, skill ranks are only used to limit at the minimum character level for some effects. There's no DCs for any action once you have the requisite feat and skill.

As I said above, I'd have made it one feat per sphere, DCs and skill ranks for various effects, Hobby feat doesn't apply to PSI. Once you get the Psi class, you can make things class skills and maybe give bonus feats so folks can take advantage of multiple spheres.

 

[ljsteele]

Are you trying to make a dedicated psionic character?

Not necessarily. I'm translating a character who bucked out on PSI power when tested at age 22 (pwr 12, age mod to 11) and got telepathy, TK, and Awareness when trained.

I can't see any way to get anything useful out of telepathy without making the character a dedicated psionic. The feats and skills required are just too expensive. TK, OTOH, is too easy. One feat and some skill now and then. Awareness is in the middle.

They initially planned to have a psion class included in thecore rulebook, but as you can see, the book is already thick.

As written, I'm not sure how you can get a non-broken Psi specialist. The major problem is the feat discrepancy. If you give one psi feat per two levels, FREX, that's great for the telepath, but does nothing useful for the TK or T'porter.

As it sits, skill ranks are only used to limit at the minimum character level for some effects. There's no DCs for any action once you have the requisite feat and skill.

As I said above, I'd have made it one feat per sphere, DCs and skill ranks for various effects, Hobby feat doesn't apply to PSI. Once you get the Psi class, you can make things class skills and maybe give bonus feats so folks can take advantage of multiple spheres.

 

[Veilheim]

Its not you, Lisa.

 

[trancejeremy]

No, it's definitely not you. Many people have pointed out the obvious problems with it (though when we do, we get attacked, and rated rather lowly here ).

There's not an easy solution.

My tentative fix for my game involves having 4 feats for each sphere, instead of the variable amount.

For telepathy, just double up the first 6 talents (a person gets two talents at the cost of only one 1 feat), with assault being the 4th.

Clairvoyance and Awareness each have 4 feats, so they work okay.

For Telekinesis, the first feat buys you the ability to move up to a kg, the second up to 100 kg, the third up to 1000, and the 4th up to 10,000. (If you have Telekinesis, but no feats, you can only do it 10 grams)

For Teleportation, the first feat lets you teleport clothed. The 2nd lets you teleport with equipment, the 3rd lets you teleport with moderate equipment, the 4th lets you teleport with heavy equipment. (If you don't have any feats in it, you can only teleport naked).

Still hard to make a talented psionic with several different spheres, but it's makes telepaths much more possible, and reduces the power of telekinetics and teleporters.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Lisa:
ye have hit the nail on the probverbial head (and counter sunk it too, as we say in the carpentry trade)! Knew there was a reason I gave ye stars, and here ye go provin me right! SHAZAM!

Trancejeremy: yer tentative fix I will be "borrowing" till i see the Tower of T20 evil move in this direction on this particular aspect of the game. Kudos lad! Stars fer you!

heretically both yours,

 

[Falkayn]

Well ... in the absence of a decent Psion class to multi-class into you could:

1. Take the Hobby feat and declare one of the Sphere skills as the skill that becomes a class skill (I can't see where it doesn't fit psi skills).

2. Take Natural Talent and get a Sphere skill two levels higher.

Either of those works for me ... I'd expect the d20 rules would require someone to take the Psion class if they really wanted to get good at more than one or two spheres.

 

[ljsteele]

Well ... in the absence of a decent Psion class to multi-class into you could:

1. Take the Hobby feat and declare one of the Sphere skills as the skill that becomes a class skill (I can't seewhere it doesn't fit psi skills).

2. Take Natural Talent and get a Sphere skill two levels higher.

Still doesn't work well.

Let me try this again. The problem is the combination of ranks and feats. I'll repeat the analysis I did for the fellow doing our T20 conversion who's new to the d20 system.

A character gets Y+Int bonus in skills. To avoid the Johnny One Skill problem, D20 cleverly limits the amount of skill ranks you can possess in any one skill to lvl+3 (for class skills) and lvl+3)/2 for crossclass skills. T20 replicates this limit at T20:62

PSI skills are cross-class for everyone. They cost 2 skill points per rank. (If the Hobby feat applies to PSI, then you could make a PSI skill
a class skill at a cost of 1 feat)

PSI skills have a minimum skill rank for use.

Assault, FREX, requires 10 ranks of telepath skill. As a cross class skill, the character must be 17th level to have that much skill (17+3/2=1-). With the natural PSI feat, you could be 15th level. It is not possible without the hobby feat to get the discipline any sooner. (With the hobby feat you could get Assault at 7th level (7+3=10). Easy solution is disallow the hobby feat for PSI skills if you want to avoid characters having a great deal of PSI power at low levels.

Telempathy, OTHO, requires 2 ranks. It could be learned at 1st level. Read Surface Thoughts is available at 5th level Send Thoughts is available at 7th level Probe is availabe at 15th level

Note some mismatches here.

Level Feat Required Skill Max.
1 Mind Shield (Free) 2
Life Detection
3 Telempathy 3
6 Read Surface Thoughts 4.5
9 Send Thoughts 6
12 Open
15 Open 9 Can't take Probe w/o Natural PSI feat because you
must
have the
ranks meed for the feat the lvl BEFORE you get the
feat. T:188
18 Probe 10.5
21 Assault 12

Under current rules it is not possible to become a Telepath with Probe before 18th to 21st level because of the feat requirements. Achieving that requires staring as a psi at 1st level and using every feat but one for telepathy. This just doesn't make sense for Classic Traveller.

If you nix the feat restriction and replace it with 1 feat for each sphere, then the skill rank restriction still keeps players from acheiving the powerful stuff too early. (It does mean that a high level character who was tested late could get a bunch of skills quickly at the next level, if they spent all available skill points on it.

A related design issue is having skill ranks required, but no DCs for doing anything nor, for that matter, and possiblity of saves by norms. Did I miss something about FREX Will saves vs. telepathy? One could import some stuff from D3e to resist telekensis, notice clairavoyant "scrying", and so on.

 

[Flynn]

Personally, I like the Four-Feat suggestion provided above (very similar to the "Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack-Whirlwind Attack" feat chain and other similar approaches). I personally am allowing the Hobby feat to affect psionic skills.

As for DCs, when used against others, I'm letting the psion's skill check be the DC of the Will save to resist the effects of the psion's abilities. It seems to work out pretty well, but may not be what was intended. Going with a more classic D20 approach, combined with the Four Feat approach given above, I would imagine that you could set DCs for saves, etc, with the following:

9 + (2 X Feat Number) + PSI ability modifier

So, Feat #1 of a chain has a base DC of 11 + PSI; Feat #2 has DC 13 + PSI; Feat #3 has DC 15 + PSI; and Feat #4 has DC 17 + PSI. These fall in line with the respective 1st level, 3rd level, 5th level and 7th level spell DCs of a classic 3E campaign.

Finally, until they release the Psionicist prestige class, I would recommend something similar to the following:

Prerequisites: Character must have received psionic training; 4 ranks in any psionic sphere skill; Base Will Save of +2.

Stamina Die: 1d4 + CON modifier.
BAB Progression: As Academic.
Saving Throw Progression: Good Will, Poor Fort and Reflex.
Skill Points Per Level: 6 + INT Modifier.
Class Skills: All Psionic Sphere skills (as appropriate to the character), Bluff, Concentration, Gather Information, K/Psionics, Liaison, Sense Motive, Spot.

Class Abilities:
1st Level: Connections/Psionic Institute feat
2nd Level: Bonus Psionic Feat
3rd Level: Psion Special Ability
4th Level: Bonus Psionic Feat
5th Level: Psion Special Ability
6th Level: Bonus Psionic Feat
7th Level: Psion Special Ability
8th Level: Bonus Psionic Feat
9th Level: Psion Special Ability
10th Level: Bonus Psionic Feat

Psion Special Abilities: Select one of the following at each level that a Psion Special Ability is granted:

* Advanced Psion: Similar to Academic's Advanced Knowledge class feat (sets max ranks in a skill to Characater Level + 3 + EDU modifier), but only applicable to psionic skills. This may be selected multiple times, but must be applied to a different psionic skill each time.
* Forceful Psion: Targets of the character's psionic abilities suffer a -2 penalty on their efforts to resist the character's psionic abilities.
* Iron Will: Character receives the Iron Will Feat for free.
* Opening The Mind: Character receives rank 0 in a psionic skill they did not currently possess. May be selected more than once.
* Rapid Recovery: Character recovers Psionic strength twice as quickly, when meditating making a Concentration check of DC 10.

Just some thoughts that might help,
Flynn

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Lisa:
Still doesn't work well.

Haven't looked into Psionics too much in D20 since the psionic monsters are given spells/spell-like abilities in the non-psionic books but you might want to take a look at the Psionic Handbook or D20 Modern.

I have D20 Modern and it uses a spell like system (similar to the Sorceror class) with Power Points.

There are portions of both books (the SRD parts) at:
Psionics D20 info *not* finally approved

D20 Modern "FX" and Psionics info

Of course this may be exactly the same as T20, in which case oops.

Casey
who is looking forward to playing a Psi Cop in the Babylon 5 roleplay game

 

[CarlP]

If it's possible to develop as a psionic without training at the psionic institute, perhaps that could be the difference between psionics being a class-skill and a cross-class-skill?

Quite simply, I'm thinking that a character with psionics that is learning on his/her own would have to pay the cross-class cost of 2 points per rank. Logically, it works for me, because s/he is trying to figure it out without guidance.

If this character finds the Psionics Institute and gets training, that guidance makes the development of psionic abilities much easier. They would then count as class skills, and be 1 point per rank.

So, do y'all think of this? I'm still working on a campaign, and I'd like psionics to be a part of it, but not a *major* part of it, so all of this is very interesting to me.

Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[Flynn]

On CarlP's comments about class vs crossclass skills:
Personally, I'm more fond of creating a Psionicist prestige class to cover that kind of thing. You could very easily make simple requirements like: Must be trained by a psi institute. That way, you still have a game-mechanics approach that's consistent with how class vs crossclass skills are handled elsewhere in the rules.

On Casey's comments regarding 3E psionics and T20: 3E psionics are not the same as the T20 system. The T20 system owes a lot more to CT and MT than to d20, despite the implementation as skills and feats. I personally don't see a way of easily converting 3E psionics to work in a T20 background, without changing the nature of psionics in YTU. But then again, it's only my opinion; YMMV.

My two Credits,
Flynn

 

[ljsteele]

I'm still opposed to the feat and skill combo and making the situation worse by adding feats to TK and T'port.

It isn't CT, but it would be more in line with D20, to give the various effects within an ability DCs. Non-specialist psis would be more interesting if they had a chance, even a small one, to produce a variety of effects. One could also have characters who specialize in some effects and had minimal skil at others.

To take my example of the TK trying to remotely manipulate a control panel. The amount of force required is minimal. Rank 1-2 should be able to do it. But the fine work to, say, type in a password without accidently hitting other keys might be a higher DC.

Rather than making a T'path wait for 3 feats to get to Read Surface Thoughts, it could be a DC 18 skill check, with modifiers for duration, distance, and intervening materials. Any telepath would have _a_ chance to do it, but only those with 4 to 8 ranks could do so dependably. Make it an opposed skill check vs the Target's will +5, and you've again got something variable that requires around 4-8 levels to be dependable.

What I'm suggesting is that as written, the psi system is very arbitrary. It rewards obvious stuff like TK and T'port by making them relativley cheap and discourages T'path by making the "cool" effects comparatively expensive.

 

[Flynn]

Lisa,

You have a point. In the MT Player's Guide, different levels of ability were assigned different task difficulties. Those same difficulties could be compared to the sample DC table at the beginning of the skills section, and an appropriate DC determined. The numbers of the more difficult tasks will appear quite forboding at first, but I think it'll still be very doable.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">From T20 Lite/T20 THB:
"DIFFICULTY CLASSES
Type DC Example
Simple 0 Walk across the floor
Very Easy 5 Climb a ladder
Easy 10 Climb a knotted rope
Average 15 Plot a course to a familiar star system
Hard 20 Jump a horse over an obstacle while riding
Difficult 25 Swim in churning, storm driven water
Formidable 30 Remove a bullet from a victim.
Challenging 35 Plot a course to an uncharted star, while under fire and without a computer.
Incredible 40 Convince the judge that a pardon scrawled on the back of a cocktail napkin really is from the planetary governor
Nearly Impossible 45 Perform brain surgery with a low-tech field surgical kit, under fire, in the rain, while wounded"</pre>[/QUOTE]What are your thoughts?

Two more Credits,
Flynn

 

[Vanguard]

I'll be using the psi rules from

http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/srd/sleepingimperium/downloads.htm

in my campaign. These were written by Ken Hood. I've plugged his work here before (no, I'm not getting paid for it.

)

I havn't played with the rules yet, but from a few reads I find that the power level is maybe a bit higher than the old CT psi system, but not overly munchkin. I am adding the stipulation that a character must have a good reason (Institute training, Zho, etc.) to take the entry level psionic feat.

Flavor-wise these rules seem similar. They do leave out the most munchkin of the CT psionics (Teleportation...if I wanted that, I'd be playing Star Trek) and add in some interesting others (Mental Enhancement turns characters into Mentats...and I always liked Dune). You could always add your own apportation/teleportation rules and take out the mental enhancement, and you would be very very close to CT psi.
(I have a feeling that Teleportation will still exist in MTU, it just won't be available to the PCs)

As an aside, I'd recommend against using the D&D Psionics Handbook rules in T20. They're too powerful (meant to balance against a wizard/sorceror) and the flavor is all wrong for Traveller (which will only matter to players used to the older Traveller systems).

Hope that helps some of you out!

 

[Ran Malia]

Lisa, I have looked at the same things and have noticed the problem. The questions is how do you fix it while maintaining the T20 system. One method that I came up with was similar to how Traveller does vehicles. You buy the Telepathy Skill, similar to pilot skill and then the various branches of telepathy would be Feats that you buy. Finally, like manueuvers for vehicles, different psionic task would have different DC. Example, A character has the Telepathy Sphere, has a Telepathy skill rank of 10, and has the Empathy talent. The character would only from that point on need to buy Telepathy skill ranks to become a stronger Empath. If he wanted to sense an emotion it would have a DC 15, change to similar emotion DC20, and change to opposite emotion DC 25. Added to this would be other modifiers. The only problem with this system is that it requires signficant changes in the basic system.

Another idea is that when you get Psi Training, not only does it give you your full Psi score, but it gives you one Sphere as in-class, that would allow the skill levels to catch up to the feats

I am acutally working on a Psionic Prestige class: Here are the basics of it so far:

Psionicist
Base Attack Bonus Base Fort Bonus Base Reflex Bonus Base Will Bonus Special
1st +1 +0 +0 +2 Advanced Psionic Training/Psionic Talent
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Psionic Enhancement
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Connections +1
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Psionic Talent
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Advanced Psionic Training
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Psionic Enhancement
7th +4 +2 +2 +5 Connections +2
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Psionic Talent
9th +5 +3 +3 +6 Psionic Enhancement
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Connections +3

Psionicist Class Skills
Class Skill Key Ability Class Skill Key Ability
Bluff Cha Bribery Cha/Soc
Forgery Int/Dex Gather Information Cha
Innuendo Wis Liason Cha
Meditation Wis Knowledge Edu
Profession Wis Sense Motive Wis
Spot Wis Survival Wis
Technical Edu Use Alien Device Wis/Psi

Skill Points per Level: 6 + Int modifier


Psionicist
Prestige Class
Psions are individuals who have developed the mental discipline necessary to harness the power of the mind, often at great personal risk. More than any other class, Psions career opportunities and social standing are restricted by the prevalent social system in which they exist. However, psions have pursued careers in every field of sentient endeavor.
Characteristics: Psions characteristics are determined by the social system in which they exist. In Imperial space, psions have learned to hide their abilities and blend in with non-Psionic Imperial majority, while in the Zhodani Consulate psionics is a mark of superiority and esteem. Regardless of the society in which psions operate they tend to focus on skill that develop their mental accumen.
Background: Psions can come from a variety of backgrounds, careers and races, but they all have one thing in common. They represent those have taken the time and effort to develop their mental capabilities.
Adventuring: A psion can bring that special edge to an adventuring party in way the party will probably never know. Psions can operate in any field from starship captains to adminstrative assistants.

Game Rule Information:
Class Type: Core
Requirements: To become a Psion a character must meet the following requirements:
Skills: Psionic Sphere Skill 5+
Feats: Psi Training, 3+ Psionic Talents
Stamina: 1d6 + Con modifier per level

Advanced Psionic Training: With an advanced understanding of one of the Psionicist’s spheres, the Psionicist may select one psionic sphere skill as an in class skill and the psionicist expends one less psionic strength point in empower a psionic talent from that sphere. The Psionicist may substitute a psionic enhancement feat or open feat if a sphere is not available.
Connections: The Psionicist has developed a wide range of contacts within the Psionic community which consist of psionics, psionic intitutes, psionic sympathicers, and psionic pharmecutical agents. The Psionics gains a +2 to Gather Information checks when utilizing these contacts.
Psionic Enhancements: Advanced training in psionics allows Psionicists to refine their abilities. The Psionicist has access to the Psionic Enhancement Feats.
Psionic Talent: The Psionicist gains a bonus psionic talent. If a talent is unavailable the Psionicist may choose a psionic enhancement or open feat.


Psionic Spheres and Talents

*Telepathy*
Shield
Life Detection
Telempathy
Read Surface Thoughts
Send Surface Thoughts
Probe
Assault
*Clairvoyance*
Sense
Obscurement
Clairvoyance
Clairaudience
Combined Clairvoyance & Clairaudience
Postcognition
Precognition
*Awareness*
Suspended Animation
Augmented Awareness
Psionically Enhanced Strength
Psionically Enhanced Constitution
Psionically Enhanced Dexterity
Mental Acumen
Regeneration
*Telekinesis*
Telekinesis
Thermokinesis
Kinetic Defense
Levitation
Kinetic Strike
*Teleportation*
Self Teleport
Retrieval
* Italicized Talents are new and described below.

New Feat Descriptions

Clairvoyance Sphere
Obscurment
Sphere: Clairvoyance
Prerequisites: None
Rank: 2
Cost: 5
Duration: 60 minutes
Benefit: Obscures the character from observation through the Clairvoyance sphere. For psionic characters to observe an obscured character they must win a contested Clairvoyance check.

Postcognition
Sphere: Clairvoyance
Prerequisites: Clairvoyance
Rank: 6
Cost: 15
Duration: 60 seconds
Benefit: With this ability the character can gain glimpses or echoes of the past. The past however, is always altered to fit the perception of the viewer, hence never giving a true picture of events but a particular viewpoint.
Event DC
Recent Event (24 hours>) 15
(7 days or less) 20
(1 month or less) 25
(1 year or less) 30
(10 years or less) 35
(100 years or less) 40
(1000 years or less) 45

Event Modifiers DC
Connected to Event -5
Minor Event +5
Major Event -5
Catasrophic Event -10
Specific Information +20



Precognition
Sphere: Clairvoyance
Prerequisites: Postcognition
Rank: 10
Cost: 15
Duration: 30 seconds
Benefit: With this ability the character can gain glimpses of the future. High cognitive abilities result in the Psionicist processing the most of minor of events to form future insights.
Event DC
1 minute into the future 15
1 hour into the future 20
1 day into the future 25
3 days into the future 30
1 week into the future 35
1 month into the future 40
1 year into the future 45

Event Modifier
Connected to event +5
Minor Event * +5
Major Event * -5
*Note: An event is major or minor in respect to its affect on the Traveller Universe.

Awareness Sphere
Augmented Awareness
Sphere: Awareness
Prerequisites: Sense
Rank: 3
Cost: 5
Duration: 10 minutes
Benefit: Through this ability the psionicist’s perception of the environment is greatly hieghtened. The psionicist recieves a +2 bonus to all Listen, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive checks.

Psionically Enhanced Dexterity
Sphere: Awareness
Prerequisites: Suspended Animation
Rank: 6
Cost: variable
Duration: 60 minutes (peak effectiveness)
Benefit: For each 2 PSI points spent using this talent, the Psionicist may temporarily add 1 point to his or her Dexterity score with the associated benefits. This effect will last for 60 minutes, after which it will begin to quicly return to normal at a rate of 1 point per minute.

Augmented Awareness
Sphere: Awareness
Prerequisites: Sense
Rank: 3
Cost: 5
Duration: 10 minutes
Benefit: Through this ability the psionicist’s perception of the environment is greatly hieghtened. The psionicist recieves a +2 bonus to all Listen, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive checks.

Telekinetic Sphere
Levitation
Sphere: Awareness
Prerequisites: Telekinesis
Rank: 8
Cost: 12
Duration: 1 minute
Benefit: The psionicist has gained thte discipline to levitate himself at a rate of ½ his Psionic strength per tern. The psioncist may also attempt to break his or her fall at a DC of 30, the DC is reduced by five for every round spent falling.

Kinetic Defense
Sphere: Telekinesis
Prerequisites: Telekinesis
Rank: 8
Cost: 15
Duration: 1 minute
Benefit: The psionicist can sense and defend against attacks by projecting a telekinetic field.

Options 1. The psionicist is allowed to make a Willpower (possible Reflex) save against incoming attacks. This skill requires concentration.
Attack Type DC
Melee Attack 15
Thrown projectile (rock, javellin) 20
Muscle powered projectile (arrow) 25
Slow kinetic projectile (rifle, pistol) 30
Fast kinetic projectile (gauss) 35
Energy weapon (laser) 40


Options 2: The character recieves a AC modifier to be hit and damage.
Attack Type AC
Melee Attack +5
Thrown projectile (rock, javellin) +4
Muscle powered projectile (arrow) +3
Slow kinetic projectile (rifle, pistol) +3
Fast kinetic projectile (gauss) +2
Energy weapon (laser) +1


Kinetic Strike
Sphere: Telekinesis
Prerequisites: Telekensis
Rank: 5
Cost: variable
Duration: Instant
Benefit: The psionicist can send a focused burst of kinetic energy at a target causing 1d4 damage per point spent

Psionic Enhancement Feats
Pseudo-Eidetic Memory
Empathic Healing
Fine Manipulation
Tactile Telekensis
Mind Link
Telekinetic Strike
Mental Switchboard

 

[ljsteele]

The separate feats for abilities within a sphere thing still doesn't work for me.

First problem.

Feats: Psi Training, 3+ Psionic Talents

If you need 3 talents and the character isn't getting bonus psi talents, you are talking about a class limited to someone of minimum 4 feats -- that's a 12th level if your GM won't let you take psi stuff as a starting feat. That doesn't help someone who gets tested at say 5th level and then needs to spend the next 17 levels (remember that 20 level cap) getting the stuff to be a psi prestigue class. Then only get 3 levels to use it.

My suggestion, base it on having 2 or more sphere affinities. No feats required.

I'm still going to strongly suggest nixing the multi-feats within the spheres, just one per sphere.

One method that I came up with was similar to how Traveller does vehicles. You buy the Telepathy Skill, similar to pilot skill and then the various branches of telepathy would be Feats that you buy.

But it isn't similar.

First, The Vessel feat (T20:111) involves only 6 major feats (Ground/ Grav/ Watercraft/ Aircraft/ Ship's Boats/ Starship), some of which have subdivisions. But they aren't nested, you don't need to have Vessel/Ground/Wheeled to learn Vessel/Ground/Hovercraft. That's a huge difference with the psi prereqs to learn "higher power" feats.

Second, you can use vehicles without any feat at -4. You can use related vehicles (within the same group) at a mere -2. That's a huge shift from psi's you can't use the discipline to do that at all without the feat.

Using feats as a limiter is a poor way to use the d20 system given one feat per 3 levels, 20 levels assumed max for a character, especially when characters will often start play having gained several levels and, if following CT style, without a chance to deal with psi in character background.

 

[Ran Malia]

The requirements may be a little high, but they can be easily changed.

On the otherhand, I think you really missed the point with the vehicle example. In general you buy pilot, you buy the feat that "allows" you to use the vehicle (without a penalty, as you stated) and then you perform manuevers which have different DC. What I propose is the same basic model, of course there will be differences, but the basics are the same. You have the Telepathy skill, which is a result of having affinity with the Telepathy sphere. Within that sphere there are several different talents or more precisely disciplines. Empathy, Telepathy, are two examples of basic disciplines. They are not based on each other they are seperate disciplines. The task you want to accompolish then determines the DC and the point cost. Detecting Emotions is easier then reading emotions, which is easier then sending emotions. This takes care of the skill slash feat. It is exactly to some extent what you were suggesting. However, some disciplines would require prior knowledge. If you can't communicate thoughts to an individual a (the telepathy discipline) then you can't send images into their mind (the illusion discipline) these would have prerequisites.

I looked at Ken Hood's stuff and I think that it is pretty good, but it is definitely beyond the Traveller scope.

 

[Ran Malia]

After looking at what I had posted previously, I decided that I should rephrase what I think is the problems with the Psionics. Essentially, you have two problems that have to be dealt with that are interconnected. First, what is the psionic system for T20. Is it skill based, feat based or some combination of the two? How are task resolved? T20 does not tell you how to determine if a psionic action is successful or not. What is the DC for reading someone surface thoughts? It can’t be automatic success if the target is non-psionic and a failure if the target is psionic. So what is the system?

The second problem, what and how do psionicist function? How do you make a character and how do the feats and skills fit into the character development. As Lisa has pointed out, as the skill & feat development system stands it is almost impossible to create an effective psionicist. They can’t acquire the feats necessary to function until they are at very high levels and this is problematic.

These two aspects are connected. You cannot determine how the class feats, talents, & skills are acquired if you don’t have a psionic resolution system from which to work from. At the same time you need to consider how a psionic resolution system will fit into the rest of the T20 system. How will the psionic system fit into the Traveller world since Traveller has a low emphasis on psionics (well not really)? These things all need to be considered. Taking this into account here are some of my ideas, some of which I have already stated.

The first question is system. In all the other D20 systems psionicists are a class, which have access to special class abilities and psionic talent progression tables, much like a mage. T20 does not use this system, so psionics has to be handled in a different way. The way that T20 has decided to do this is through feats. I think that this is a good way to handle it without changing the T20 game structure, which a psionic progression table would do.

I would propose that psionics consist of spheres, disciplines, sphere skills, and tasks. Telepathy would be a sphere and within that sphere would be several disciplines (presently called talents) that for the most part are independent of each other and don't have requirements. For example:
Telepathy Sphere: The detection, communication and organization of thought and emotion.
Telepathy Discipline: Detect thought, DC 15; Read Surface thought, DC 20; Send Thought, DC 20; Probe, DC 25. Modifier examples; -2 range increments, +5 per mind connected, +5 detect specific mind, +5 per 10 people in area, etc.

I think that this fits in easily with the T20 system as it is has been developed so far. The table for tasks would be similar to tables for T/Medical and other skills. In a similar vein, if the character does not have a particular discipline they can still attempt to use that discipline, but they have a +10 DC (subject to debate) and the psionic cost is doubled.

The final aspect of the system that needs to be addressed is the power cost of using psionics, as it stands the use of psionics are very high. Psionic abilities can only be use 2 or 3 times at most, without the augmentation of drugs. I thought at first that the use of stamina to feed psionics would work, but that results in physical capability being converted into psionic capability, which isn’t particularly true. Other options are to maintain the system as it is but lower the use of psionics a little and/or add psionic cost reducing feats (enhancements). Or, creating a psionic reserve based off of Int, Cha, and Psionics. In my final opinion I thought that the second option was the best.

As stated initially having a system determines how characters are developed and function. This system actually gives a novice psionicist some ability, but not too much IMHO. One of the first distinctions that I think needs to be addressed is what are the different types of psionicist. At the minimum there are trained and untrained and this determines how psionicists are formed in Traveller. I am using these basics. It is obvious that a character that only has natural talent is untrained and will be limited by that. The character that has the Psi training feat is trained, but has received limited training. The character that is part of the psionic class is fully trained. Each of these will limit character psionic development in various ways.

The Natural Talent only, has no formal training and has only one sphere, the one rolled. He or she can develop their sphere skill as a cross-class skill but they cannot buy a discipline feat within that sphere. This means that natural talents have the +10 DC and double psi point cost as someone who doesn’t have the discipline. The advantage of this is that you can get trained later without penalty and you have limited use of psi-abilities, but only spend one feat. (For those who are Psi trained natural talent, they would probably recieve a bonus in thier sphere)

Psi Training feat: Psionic Training represents more than just taking a test, the person has really be trained to a limited extent. For 100,000 Cr I could go to Georgetown for 4 years, so there have to be some real advantages to this feat. Psionic training as an initial 1rst level feat means that the PC has had significant training in their pre-history. It also means that one sphere is considered in-class for skill point cost. The trained character can also buy discipline feats using his or her level bonuses. A 1st level human character could take as their initial feats one class feat, Psi Training and one discipline and would never have to spend feats on psi disciplines again and would still be an effective psi as long as they increased their skill rank. Note: taking Psi Training after initial character creation is not as beneficial. If done during prior history, the PC must had one year to their age representing the time spent training. If they do it after game start, they have to figure out a way to spend the time to train, and they have to come up with the 100,000 Cr.

Psionicist Class: I understand that COTI is leaning towards making the Psionicist a prestige class. I think it is wrong, however, if the system was changed to what I am proposing then Psionicist as a prestige class would work. The main advantages of the psionicist class are two-fold. You would have access to Advanced Psi training, which would allow you to make other spheres class skills. You would have access to additional disciplines and Enhancement Feats, which modify existing skills. For example Telekinesis allows you to move objects like pick up a pen, but you couldn’t write with it very well. If you have the Fine Manipulation Enhancement you can use your telekinesis as if it were an extra hand. You can write and manipulate small objects.

This is an overview of what I think would make a good system for running psionics and I am interested to see what people think