Programs, Ship Payments, and Far Trader

[RocketTurtle]

Can someone provide a list of good programs I can use to help speed along my Traveller campaign? Specifically, I'm looking for programs that handle the economics aspect. I'm running a mission to mission game that's heavily story based, but I still want a good economic foundation. Something to help calculate ship payments, cargo prices, and gives me an idea of how much I should give them each session to pace their economic growth.

As it stands, my initial calculation says that the owner of a free trader pays roughly 72k-80k a month on a 40 year payment plan. Is it me, or does this seem near impossible unless I give my players a fully loaded ship of cargo and passengers every session? (which usually can last up to a month since each jump is one week) With this much debt, why does anyone go free trading at all? Are there any legitimate excuses I can call on to lower my player's payments?

Also, does anyone know where I can find a copy of GT Far Trader? It's out of print, but I still want to see if its new economics rules will help any bit. If not, is there any place can I find those new ship economics rules?

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by RocketTurtle:
As it stands, my initial calculation says that the owner of a free trader pays roughly 72k-80k a month on a 40 year payment plan. Is it me, or does this seem near impossible unless I give my players a fully loaded ship of cargo and passengers every session? (which usually can last up to a month since each jump is one week) With this much debt, why does anyone go free trading at all? Are there any legitimate excuses I can call on to lower my player's payments?

The problem is really that realistically no bank would loan out the money unless the prospective shipowner had a business plan that would give him a fully loaded ship each jump. In which case he wouldn't really be a free trader, but the owner of a one-ship fledgeling line. So no free trader would be able to buy a brand new ship.

Instead, make the ship a 40+ year old ship worth only 20% of the original cost. That will lower the bank payments to something a free trader might be able to manage.

Just keep in mind that there must be a reason why a 40 year old ship is worth less than a new ship. None of the rules really provide a reason, except for TNE, where all equipment has a 'wear value' and breakdown chances depend on the wear value (unfortunately the rule didn't work too well in practice, at least not for starships).
My take on free traders is that there is a much bigger chance that some vital piece of equipment will break down and require lengthy and expensive repairs while no revenue is gained. Essentially a free trader is gambling that he will make enough money to have a nest egg that will tide him over before the first big breakdown occur. Those who win that gamble grow rich; those who lose it go bankrupt and have their ships sold to the next gambler.

Hans

 

[Shadowdancer]

I feel the Traveller starship economics rules are purposely stacked so that your average free trader or far trader can't make a profit, or even break even, by just hauling flat-rate cargo and passengers.

That way, your players will have to take on charters, engage in speculative trading or start smuggling to make ends meet. These are built-in adventure hooks for the ref.

 

[themink]

I had a quick "play through" with a far trader pushing between a couple of High population worlds with B class starports (TL 10 & 11). They didn;t have any unusual trade features and the merchant had fair to middling skills (He could get the +2 Broker with a take10)

Even taking just the one week turn arround, he never had spare staterooms and the cargo bay was always 90% plus full. He covered costs and put some asside every month - not quite enough to cover the annual maintainance, but close to it.

If I let him engage in any speculation, he quickly escalated his bankroll and his "annual maintainance" money quickly became far more than he needed. Once he had more than a mega credit bankroll, there was no point carrying anything but speculative cargo and it would have become worth "looking arround" rather than just jumping with the first cargo that promised a profit.

The T20 rules seem very generous for cargos between high pop worlds.

I intend to have "freight lines" filling these in - which relegates the free traders to small poor worlds - but I normally have a "time since last ship" which means that it is worth finding out where other ships are going so that you can pip them at the post (and drive them out of business) or at least avoid their routes. But then I won;t use numbers to drive my trading. (as a ref)

 

[Bishop Odo]

I posted this under MTU, but it's applicable here.

I would like some feedback on using a rule I found, in a T20 game. In GURPS Far trader there is a rule that states: Items that are produced at Tech levels higher than the item itself are cheaper. The first tier or level higher are 50% cheaper, and next tier higher are an additional 25% cheaper, because of the cost of production is cheaper at higher levels. I can only conclude that this includes all items and not services, so starships and weapons gain the price break. I have not been able to find a similar rule in other Traveller edition I have available. This helps the cost factor.

 

[thedamnyankee]

Originally posted by Bishop Odo:
I posted this under MTU, but it's applicable here.

I would like some feedback on using a rule I found, in a T20 game. In GURPS Far trader there is a rule that states: Items that are produced at Tech levels higher than the item itself are cheaper. The first tier or level higher are 50% cheaper, and next tier higher are an additional 25% cheaper, because of the cost of production is cheaper at higher levels. I can only conclude that this includes all items and not services, so starships and weapons gain the price break. I have not been able to find a similar rule in other Traveller edition I have available. This helps the cost factor.

Reduction of cost/weight/volume with TL increase is a staple of the GURPS technology system. There is no reason you coulnt include it IYTU. As far as I can tell the ony use for TL's in T20 is to control what you can buy at creation and to modify the trading rules. as for one I like the GT technology system to a point. The modules can get silly when you understand that weapon costs/volumes include power plant persentages, although its beter than T20's not giving power for some of the turreted ships...

Christopher Schroeder

 

[Elliot]

In my view the lack of higher TL = weight/size reduction has always been a major oversight in Traveller design. Of course anyone can modify things but the rules should have envisioned it in the books.

As to age of starships - it was explained in a Digest publication that things in the 3I are built to last - that air/rafts are designed to last 100 years + . It is clear that Joe Fugate et al had never heard of Henry Ford (who famously look into which parts of the Model T lasts the longest and asked for them to be made weaker to decrease the life span of the vehicle). However, the Azhanti High Lightning was over one hundred years old in CT and still was a ship of choice (which makes it a new front line cruiser in the T20 timeline).

As to depreciations in costs - look at modern automobile prices - if you buy a new car you lose huge amounts of its value in the first two years. The fact that the car has little wear and tear is not reflected in the depreciation. People even buy registration plates that are date free (in England standard registration plates have a date code for when the car was built) to prevent the depreciation value of their car.

So on the same reasoning a Far Trader that is 40 years old may (a) be a youthful creature in light of the age of many Traveller starships and (b) may have nothing wrong with it but may just be ex mega corporation stock that just looks like last years/decades model.