Prisons, being Shanghaied, and the Military

[redwalker]

I've been looking through old Traveller supplements.

There are adventures about old battleships that have been turned into prison hulks.

There are adventures about prison planets.

There are adventures about being shanghaied into slave labor by corporations.

And there is a lot of military stuff.

A friend of mine who worked on military subs said that it was a lot like doing hard time in prison.

Was Marc W. Miller just interested in these topics academically? Did he have personal military experience?

In passing, I note that some very good 20th century fiction dealt with being shanghaied into near-slavery, but I think there are more prisons in Traveller than there are in the average sample of sci-fi stories.

It would be interesting if anyone could confirm that Miller was in the military -- possibly on a submarine. If so, I think a major inspiration for the Traveller universe is evident.

 

[Whipsnade]

Red Walker wrote:

"I've been looking through old Traveller supplements." [snip of observations]


Mr. Walker,

Take a peek at 76 Patrons if you're able. Most of the jobs there involve criminal activities of some kind up to and including murder. As Loren Wiseman explains; "It was how RPGs were played back then." Mr. Miller has since expressed his distaste for adventures and settings of the lurid and/or sordid type.

"It would be interesting if anyone could confirm that Miller was in the military -- possibly on a submarine. If so, I think a major inspiration for the Traveller universe is evident."

He served in the US Army. His old division's number can be found in the Terran ground unit counter mix for the GDW game Imperium.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[redwalker]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Red Walker wrote:

"I've been looking through old Traveller supplements." [snip of observations]


Mr. Walker,

Take a peek at 76 Patrons if you're able. Most of the jobs there involve criminal activities of some kind up to and including murder. As Loren Wiseman explains; "It was how RPGs were played back then." Mr. Miller has since expressed his distaste for adventures and settings of the lurid and/or sordid type.

"It would be interesting if anyone could confirm that Miller was in the military -- possibly on a submarine. If so, I think a major inspiration for the Traveller universe is evident."

He served in the US Army. His old division's number can be found in the Terran ground unit counter mix for the GDW game Imperium.


Sincerely,
Larsen

Thanks for the very rapid response and interesting info.

I had wondered about his military service.

It's worth noting, perhaps, that a lot of E.R.Burroughs fiction revolves around having the hero or the heroine captured.

Also, the science fiction of Jack Vance deals with a lot of subtle "interstellar traveller matches wits with wily, unscrupulous capitalist" conflicts.

I think one of the old books, possibly "Citizens of the Imperium," had a list of classic sci-fi characters, including Keith Laumer's Retief and Poul Anderson's trader characters. So it's fair to assume those were influences, and both of those frequently dealt with getting captured and jailbreaks.

Also, the Prison Planet (Adventure 8) has some comments about how frequently PCs do blatantly illegal things and expect to get away with it, so possibly a portion of the prison themes arose from rowdy players.

Anyhow, thanks very much.

 

[Elliot]

I have to say I still like the idea of a bad Imperium that the Star Wars influenced early Traveller had. I like Corps that shanghai people into bond slavery, a 3I bureaucracy that gets rid of senators by installing them onto the Gash prison and Imperial spooks who zap 'enemies' with FGMP15s without so much as a glance at concepts of due process. It all makes things rather more fun in an adventure.

Of course, it is all the fault of DGP, who did the excellent job of giving Strephon and his nearest and dearest (and assassin) a voice that was not present in GDW's CT. But that voice has turned the Imperium into this rather benevolent body rather like the naive conservative's view of secret service agencies = they have everyone's interests at heart, they dont ever cross the line and when they do its justified. I say its more fun if there is just down right corruption and authoritarian abuses of power in the powers that be.

Bring back the bad Empire, let characters have a bit more to contend with than striking miners and postage freight contracts!

 

[Blue Ghost]

Our Imperium was rather benign. Not entirely good, nor bad, but rather there in the background, doing things that needed done in order to keep the trade lanes open and functioning. It wasn't until the Rebellion of MT that our group had any hint that there was supposed to be somekind of ingrained political corruption, as well as societal and other order.

Admittidely the Imperium has its rough points, but we alsways saw its political structure as being something akin to the British monarchy, but with perhaps more pull and influence. And to this end was, by and large, civilized.

But the whole question of what new stuff is desired and expected has me asking some pretty fundamental questions. Like, if the "violence" is getting taken out of Traveller, then what's going to happen to all the mercenary tickets from the CT setting? I'm all for a less "sordid" setting, but what about the military angle?

Example; our group always liked a good shoot-em-up fest, but we also liked exploration as well. In fact our worst adventure was run by a guy whose "tastes" were sordid. He had us rescuing a kidnapped princess who was to be impressed into a "house of ill repute." That kind of stuff bothers me because it doesn't feel like it belongs. From that standpoint I agree with Traveller's new direction, but am concerned for some of the high adventure that was the halmark for our group.

 

[Spiderfish]

What you think they wont have any "houses of ill repute" in the future?

It's rather noble to rescue someone who has been impressed from a house of ill repute after all
Though why didnt the "villain/s" didnt ransom her off instead for a higher profit?

Whats this about taking out the violence? (glad I only ever play CT)

 

[redwalker]

When I was running a lot of Traveller in the 1980's I was not very politically or historically educated.

My Imperium was based more on American foreign policy than anything else.

My major non-fiction influence and only source of first-hand military knowledge was a drug-abusing Vietnam vet.

So I could listen to "Sandinista" and still run adventures inpired by Reagan-esque counter-insurgency without any serious criticism of U.S. foreign policy.

If I were going to start a new Traveller campaign, I would ask a lot of political and economic questions about the various settings. The Imperium, based on scarcity economics, would probably resemble Gorbachev's Russia more than Reagan's U.S.

However, once I finished modifying the setting to fit my notions of politics and anthropology, it wouldn't be recognizable as the Traveller universe. (Although it might resemble Dying Suns -- I don't know, I've never played that game...)

Also, side note: I totally agree that sexually explicit stories generally make bad role-playing games, especially with Traveller.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Spiderfish; oh hey, I've no doubt there will be. And the mission ticket was an honorable one, it was just the way the adventure was... ahem... "administered"

that kind of put us off. I'm talking pretty racy stuff that, upon reflection, really shouldn't've been there, and no one, myself included, liked the way that particular adventure was administered.

In the end we strapped on our CES-BDUs, locked and loaded our ACRs, accel-rifles, and stormed the place guns a blazin'

It was the only redeeming feature of that particular outing. The same guy who administered that adventure also ran a Leviathon side adventure where we had to assasinate a rival leader on a Balkanized world. Again, our group really didn't care for that job. We saw ourselves as classic comic book adventurers; the type who skirted the law but did good deeds when able. We weren't hired killers, and that adventure was one of our less memorable ones

So, what am I saying? I dunno really

I guess I'm wondering if a "shoot the badguys" feel to most Traveller Adventures is going to get tossed out the window, or if there's just going to be streamlining to adventure themes in terms their rating and appeal.

 

[Spiderfish]

Well I probably wouldent care for the sexual material. It probably wouldent be very titilating.

I usually prefer to side step the law but stay on the side of justice and morality rather than becomin' an evil murderin' bastich!

But sometimes its fun to be a pirate, a con man or perhaps a non committed assasin. The moneys all that matters etc.

But usally i'm just an evil GM (which means I can be all of the above...)

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, the thing about that particular adventure wasn't the material as much as it was the way the adventure was administered. I won't go into detail, but rescuing the princess became a moot point. And that, more than anything else, really soured us on that adventure and the guy running the thing.

To me that kind of thing isn't inherit in Traveller. Traveller is a framework. It's a reference for adventuring in the Far Future, so I'm wondering how Traveller's new incarnation is going to steer towards a more ... "family?" or more traditional sci-fi framework, while at the same time keeping things like Gauss Rifles, Z-Guns, FGMPs, armor of various sorts, and all other things combat related. I guess the only answer would be in the published adventures, because you can't really dictate morality in the rules.

Either way, I'm hopeful that the new adventures will retain the Classic Traveller and classic sci-fi spirit and feel.

But now I'm rambleing

 

[Spiderfish]

Enough blow stuff up!

Personally I'd rather be a mercenary than spend time donating to charity. Dont mind rescueing people but combat has always been a largish part of my traveller games.

After all if a Marines main skills are in cutlasses, rifles and heavy weapons its a bit of a waste to make him do sewing.

 

[Elliot]

Which is why you need a diplomat in your campaign

 

[Spiderfish]

Aye you need a broad number of abilities.

Several differnet PCs all good at different things.

The Impoverished Noble (Diplomacy, calling in favours etc.)

The Marine (blowing stuff up, preventing theft)

The Pilot (rescueing the other PCs, getting them from A to B)

The Engineer (fixing stuff, looking at the drives)

The Scout (Jack of all trades, spare pilot etc.)

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

A few other possiblities for beginners, small groups, or those "hopeless" characters:

A tech- or JOT-type who opens a fix-it shop on a mid-tech world (TL6-8), and...
... buys a pallet of Navy surplus goods (without at first noticing that alien artifact).
... contracts to service the downport's computer system (with all that classified data just laying there).
... attracts the attention of the local "insurance" syndicate ("Yo, Dgiabe sent me to collect on this week's premium.")
... is awakened at midnight to service (at gunpoint) the cyberware arm of a very nasty-looking former marine (while his buddies stand guard and lookout).

(Replace the tech-head with a med-tech, a small-craft pilot, a vehicle operator, and adjust the business and circumstances accordingly.)

Sometimes, an average Joe up against extra-ordinary circumstances (Luke in the first S/W movie) can lead to even bigger adventures. Starting out in an ordinary, mundane business ("You want fries with that?"), and then progressing to extraordinary circumstances ("Yes Duke, I am your brother!") often reflects real-world experiences in a big-screen way.

It's just the way it is that real life includes theft, murder, kidnap, torture, slavery, piracy, arrest, conviction, sentencing, and prison (or execution). RPG's just do it all in a bigger and less messy way.

KR

 

[Spud]

Originally posted by Keklas Rekobah:
A few other possiblities for beginners, small groups, or those "hopeless" characters:
<snip>

It's just the way it is that real life includes theft, murder, kidnap, torture, slavery, piracy, arrest, conviction, sentencing, and prison (or execution). RPG's just do it all in a bigger and less messy way.

KR

"a less messy way"? Have you ever had your PC's start a firefight in a room of the local Howard Johnson's Motor Lodge-equivalent? with a heavy crossbow? (gotta love a barbarian played by a thirteen yo girl)How about shutting down passenger life support on yer Beowulf because the pax are complaining that you're going to get them all killed trying to skim a gas giant?
Less messy? Hah! I find most PC's LOVE shedding the civilized veneer and getting down and dirty in the name of situational ethics.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

"It's just the way it is that real life includes theft, murder, kidnap, torture, slavery, piracy, arrest, conviction, sentencing, and prison (or execution). RPG's just do it all in a bigger and less messy way." - KR

When I originally made this statement, I was referring to the spilled soda and cheesie puffs left on the floor and furniture after most RPG battles, as opposed to the blood, gore, guts, and sundry body parts left over after a realworld battle.

Food crumbs are so much easier to clean up...

KR

 

[Spud]

Particularly if you have a dog.

Pardon my over-reaction; I just had this PTSD flashback to the Night of the Blood-Stained Carpets at the motor lodge. It is frightening, isn't it, how readily PC's (I cheerfully include myself here) abandon all pretense of civilization, morality, higher brain function...
Just to get enough credits to keep on abandoning all...