Prior History, and multiclassing

[EvilDrGanymede]

I'm tackling prior history now for the character I was making in the "Character Generation Report" thread, and have a few questions...

- Does time spent at university count as terms?

- There's no direct link between what you study at university and the specific skills you get as you go up levels (I went from level 1 to 3 over the course of the BSc). I presume it's left to the player to take appropriate skills, yes?

- When I leave university, I take it that I have to spend at least the first term doing whatever job I rolled up the character for? i.e. if I rolled up a Scout before the Prior History, I have to spend the first working term as one at least, right?
Thinking about it, this strikes me as being really rather wonky actually. As it currently stands, I sort out Attributes, Race, Homeworld, Starting Class, then Prior History. But really, the starting class is kinda built into Prior History anyway isn't it? Effectively, I'm making a 1st level Scout before I'm going to University and before I actually start work as a Scout.

I'm thinking it'd be better to sort out Attributes, Race, and Homeworld as normal - and then pause. At this stage, one has an inexperienced 'blank slate' character who's about to head off to University or go to work. THEN go to Prior History, go to University/go to work (now we select the class we want to join, do the first term, and so on). That way makes more sense to me, anyway.

Have I missed a major point or done something wrong here? I'm just failing to grasp why one creates a 'Starting Class' before Prior History, if you don't actually 'start work' until the Prior History stage anyway. As it stands, I made a 1st level Scout who went off to University and then joined the Scouts (how did he get the Scout starting feats before he went to university?!) - rather than making a totally inexperienced person who didn't know what he was going to do, who went to University, and then joined the Scouts. (which makes more sense to me).
Can anyone clarify this for me??

Anyway, all that aside for now, my character has left University with a Doctorate in Planetology (natch), and spent two terms in the Scout on routine assignments. After his second term in the scouts, he's a 33 year old, Level 6 Scout, with 18,500 XP. So far so good.

Now, he wants to go do some research and teach in a university for a bit, so he decides to multiclass as an Academic. However, I am stumped as to how to do this. He's currently halfway through level 6, so what should he do? Is it OK to start his 3rd term as an Academic, roll on the Duty Assignments as normal, and then get the XP as normal? He can potentially get 8,000 XP from spending a term as an Academic (4000 for surviving, + 4000 tops for the XP bonus) - how is this spent? Does he become a 6th level Scout/4th level Academic if he gets the 8000 XP (this is my current guess)? Or is does he become a 7th Level Scout/Academic with 24,500 XP? And what happens if he fails his survival roll as an Academic -does he have to stop advancing as a Scout too, or can he continue?

Oh, as a separate point, to Academics get XP bonuses (or, more importantly and likely, SOC bonuses?) for their Decorations?

Halp!

 

[Psion]

I'm not staff, but I can give you my takes on a few things.[/i]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
- Does time spent at university count as terms?

Well, it counts as time passed for the purposes of age, obviously, and for the purposes of maximim terms served, that section does specify "terms of service or profession" (education is neither.) It is not clear that it does not apply for the purposes of benefits, but using prior versions of Traveller as a precedent, I would conclude it does not.

- There's no direct link between what you study at university and the specific skills you get as you go up levels (I went from level 1 to 3 over the course of the BSc). I presume it's left to the player to take appropriate skills, yes?

One would assume so.

- When I leave university, I take it that I have to spend at least the first term doing whatever job I rolled up the character for?

Not exactly, but close. The section on employment say that you can find employment in a job that you have class levels in. However, nothing says that you cannot multiclass during college. If I decide my character is has an "engineering administration" degree and picks up levels or both professional and academic in college, I presumably get a job in either field, though one or the other may not have been the class I started in.

However, I do beleive the service classes explicitly state that you must spend one term in that service if you start with a level in that class, so in that case your answer is yes.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Psion:

- When I leave university, I take it that I have to spend at least the first term doing whatever job I rolled up the character for?

Not exactly, but close. The section on employment say that you can find employment in a job that you have class levels in. However, nothing says that you cannot multiclass during college. If I decide my character is has an "engineering administration" degree and picks up levels or both professional and academic in college, I presumably get a job in either field, though one or the other may not have been the class I started in.[/QUOTE]

Okaaaaay. I think I'm now more confused than when I started

. You get enough XP to go up 3 levels when you finish a Bachelors degree - how are you supposed to multiclass while you're doing that? Or are you talking about taking the other class between the individual Bachelors/ Masters/Doctorate units (which makes more sense to me)

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
Okaaaaay. I think I'm now more confused than when I started

. You get enough XP to go up 3 levels when you finish a Bachelors degree - how are you supposed to multiclass while you're doing that? Or are you talking about taking the other class between the individual Bachelors/ Masters/Doctorate units (which makes more sense to me)

You can multi-class any time you go up a level, into any class you are qualified for at that time. THe specific prior history event you're working on does not require you to take all your levels in a particular class.

That means that during University, you could take a level of Academic or Professional, and then a level or two of Traveller or Rogue or whatever else you are allowed access to. For that matter, you don't have to take *any* levels of Academic or Professional in University.

 

[mikeryan]

EDG, think of your character's class as a mental predisposition, not what he/she is actually doing.

Let's take your University time as an example. You decide, before Prior History, that your character is going to start off as (at 1st character level) as an Academic. You successfully graduate, earning enough experience to bring your character up to character level 3. This means that you need to allocate 2 class levels. You decide to take a level in Academic and a level in Rogue, resulting in class levels of Academic 2/Rogue 1.

If you want to rationalize this (and this is the fun part), you could decide that your character started off studious, but eventually got bored and started hanging with the wrong crowd.

The only real ties between class and Prior History service are services classes. If you start your character off in a service class, your character must enlist in the requisite service for at least the first term. Also, in order to gain a level in any class other than Scout, your character must be currently enlisted in the appropriate service (either in Prior History or in game play). For Scouts, if you already have at least one class level in Scouts, you may add another level at any time. In order to get the first class level of Scout, you must enlist for a term in the Scout service.

 

[icote]

Evil,

I think the step your missing is that after rolling attributes, adding in race, and homeworld, you add a class. Before doing any prior history you begin with a 1st Level Character (0 XP). At that point you can choose to do terms, or University or not.

Someone (Shane Mclean CID# 550) a thread back a page or two included all of the steps for making a character:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_to pic;f=3;t=000265

They are definetively worth reading, and pretty much spell out the best way to think of this.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Mike Ryan:
EDG, think of your character's class as a mental predisposition, not what he/she is actually doing.

Let's take your University time as an example. You decide, before Prior History, that your character is going to start off as (at 1st character level) as an Academic. You successfully graduate, earning enough experience to bring your character up to character level 3. This means that you need to allocate 2 class levels. You decide to take a level in Academic and a level in Rogue, resulting in class levels of Academic 2/Rogue 1.

If you want to rationalize this (and this is the fun part), you could decide that your character started off studious, but eventually got bored and started hanging with the wrong crowd.

OK in principle... how do you allocate the skill points though? I start as a 1st level Academic in your example getting (8*Int Mod)*4 skill points, then get another level in it (for another 8+Int Mod skill points), then do I get (4+Int Mod) skill points as a Rogue (I don't get the full initial skill points for Rogue since I'm multiclassing into it, right?)?

I think I've followed that correctly... assuming I have though, what happens when I'm doing my terms? What's described above kinda makes sense in University, but if I'm serving a term working, I'm gaining XP that's tied to the class that I'm working as (e.g. say I get 6000XP as a Scout during one term). If that puts me up a level, I surely have to go up a level in whatever class that I'm working in (ie. Scout in this case). So I'm assuming that if I want to change profession, I have to spend an entire term as say an Academic or a Traveller or whatever, and get the XP for that. It makes no sense to me to go up a level as something I'm not actively working for. (Do you see what my problem here is?)

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by AgentErebus:
Evil,

I think the step your missing is that after rolling attributes, adding in race, and homeworld, you add a class. Before doing any prior history you begin with a 1st Level Character (0 XP). At that point you can choose to do terms, or University or not.

Someone (Shane Mclean CID# 550) a thread back a page or two included all of the steps for making a character:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_to pic;f=3;t=000265

They are definetively worth reading, and pretty much spell out the best way to think of this.

Actually, I *have* added the class before doing the Prior History - I just said it struck me as being a bit weird to do that . And I've had Shane's post printed out next to me for the whole process - and while it's been pretty darn useful, it's not explained everything I need to know, which is why I'm asking here . But his post is a very handy one to have available when making a character!

 

[DrSkull]

Class and prior history career can be entirely separate (except for Service classes).

You could, perfectly legally, if it hasn't changed from the last playtest draft, go to university, then serve 7 terms in the Academic career in prior history, but put all your EXP into the Rogue class, and come out as a single-classed 10th level rogue (like Bill Murray from Ghostbusters?).

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by DrSkull:
Class and prior history career can be entirely separate (except for Service classes).

You could, perfectly legally, if it hasn't changed from the last playtest draft, go to university, then serve 7 terms in the Academic career in prior history, but put all your EXP into the Rogue class, and come out as a single-classed 10th level rogue (like Bill Murray from Ghostbusters?).

That's not helping to alleviate my confusion, you know...

 

[Bruce]

You can CHOOSE what class you want to take if you can legally get into that class during prior history.

This shows that even a person int he Marines can actually be a DOCTOR or a CLERK or someone who works in logistics and takes ROGUE.

BAsically not ALL marines are ground pounders, some are technicians who fix the equipment, some are guys who hand out the food at base camp and some are doctors or teachers at the OTC academny etc.

IF you start out as a MArine, in said example above, you must take your FIRST term as a marine. But after taht you can do what you want. This helps break the mold that all people in one class are the same. They are not.

I hope that helps

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain

 

[DrSkull]

EDITED BECAUSE I WAS JUST WRONG

--Some important things changed between the playtest draft I had been working with and the book. Now that I have the book, I see I was very wrong

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Bruce:
You can CHOOSE what class you want to take if you can legally get into that class during prior history.

This shows that even a person int he Marines can actually be a DOCTOR or a CLERK or someone who works in logistics and takes ROGUE.

BAsically not ALL marines are ground pounders, some are technicians who fix the equipment, some are guys who hand out the food at base camp and some are doctors or teachers at the OTC academny etc.

IF you start out as a MArine, in said example above, you must take your FIRST term as a marine. But after taht you can do what you want. This helps break the mold that all people in one class are the same. They are not.

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain

I'm still perplexed here... OK, let me see if I can rephrase my problems a little better.

1) I'm assuming that it's possible to spend a term in another class (ie. spend a couple of terms as a Scout, then a term as an Academic, then a term as a Professional, then go back to Scouts). So the XP one gains over that term goes solely to increasing the multiclassed level, and not the original level (which sounds like it'll make for easier book-keeping). Is this even a valid assumption or not?

2) But from what I've gathered here, you can just hop around over most of the classes when you're doing your terms and education. This sounds a lot harder to keep track of, and also makes me wonder what the point of doing "terms" is in this context.

3) It's also not clear how much of an advantage it is to multiclass - sure, you get a few Class-only skills, but most of the skills are cross-class and therefore open to everyone, and the same goes for the feats as far as I can tell.

 

[mikeryan]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
OK in principle... how do you allocate the skill points though? I start as a 1st level Academic in your example getting (8*Int Mod)*4 skill points, then get another level in it (for another 8+Int Mod skill points), then do I get (4+Int Mod) skill points as a Rogue (I don't get the full initial skill points for Rogue since I'm multiclassing into it, right?)?

Yup. BTW, if you aren't currently in possession of a D20 core rulebook, I strongly urge you to correct that situation.

I think I've followed that correctly... assuming I have though, what happens when I'm doing my terms? What's described above kinda makes sense in University, but if I'm serving a term working, I'm gaining XP that's tied to the class that I'm working as (e.g. say I get 6000XP as a Scout during one term). If that puts me up a level, I surely have to go up a level in whatever class that I'm working in (ie. Scout in this case). So I'm assuming that if I want to change profession, I have to spend an entire term as say an Academic or a Traveller or whatever, and get the XP for that. It makes no sense to me to go up a level as something I'm not actively working for. (Do you see what my problem here is?)

As other people have been emphasizing, class and career are separate. You can be whatever class you want in whatever career you choose (service classes being the exception). The career simply defines what you are doing for those 4 years (and hence defines your risks, chances of promotion, etc.). You class defines what you actually are. Some examples:

You can be the guy that has all the good drugs and can always get beer (class Rogue) while in college (education career University).

You could be a doctor (class Professional) for the 284th Lift Regiment (service career Marines).

You could be security officer (class Mercenary) for a frontier merchant line (profession career Merchant).

The only connection between class and career is that in order to advance a SERVICE CLASS, you must be currently in the related career.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by DrSkull:
Here's the deal: FORGET THE TITLE OF THE PRIOR SERVICE CAREER. Prior Service is what you've been doing, CLass is what you are.

You can take a term in Traveller PRIOR Service, and apply the Experience points to Noble CLASS, and then take a term of Rogue PRIOR and apply the experience points to Academic CLASS.

You could have 7 terms in 7 different PRIOR service careers (unlikely), but apply the experience in only 1 Character Class. Also you could spend 7 terms in one Prior Service but apply the experience into any number of Character Classes.

OK, I grasp this general concept, but if you're taking the Rogue prior then what on earth is the point of applying the XP to a different class? You've spent 4 years being a rogue, and then you're going to suddenly go up a level or two (maybe) as an Academic?! Why not just take the prior in Academic and apply the XP there instead? Granted, maybe that was an extreme example you used - but I just have trouble understanding *why* one would do this.

And it's not like you're barred from getting a lot of skills/feats if you don't multiclass. There are only a couple of skills/feats that a Rogue can't get without multiclassing into Academic, for example. OK, he has to cross-class to get some skills, but that's not struck me as a major problem so far.

I know the argument is to say that you're working in academia for a bit and branching out, but you're basically only doing that to get access to the unique class skills really - otherwise you can just get most skills with the points you get from levelling up as a rogue, can't you?

Evidently I'm still missing some point somewhere, aren't I... :/

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Mike Ryan:
Yup. BTW, if you aren't currently in possession of a D20 core rulebook, I strongly urge you to correct that situation.

Oh, I've got the PHB. Kinda helped a bit, but I can't find much to clarify this, since D&D doesn't have "terms".

The only connection between class and career is that in order to advance a SERVICE CLASS, you must be currently in the related career.

OK. I think I get that now (and that makes life easier for my Scouts character

).

So say my Scout gets 6000 XP in his third Scout term, and wants to spend part of that as an Academic. Can he spend 3000 XP on Academic (to get straight him to Academic level 2 from scratch) and the other 3000 XP to get him nearer to level on Scout (which would take him to Scout level 7, since he has 18,500 XP already)?

But if that's so, then there'd be no need to ever change career (i.e. what you spend your terms in), would there - since you can just multiclass within your own career?

 

[Bruce]

if you spend your 3rd term int he Scouts and you gain 6000 xps. You ADD that total to all your other accrued exps. If that means you gain a level, you can take it as an academic or a scout...if it means you gain two levels you can do both, one and one or two in one or whatever.

But you can't split the exp up. There are not TWO seperate exp totals for each class like in old 1st edition D&D and 2nd Edition.

So if you get 6000 xps for going through one term of Scouts, you can spend the 1000 on one class, then your 2nd level. If you have enought o go to thrid, you pick a new class to level up in. Then your 3rd level. You check the experience point chart to see what your OVER ALL level is.

See chart page 35, i think.
If you have 6000 exps that means you can have combined levels of UP to 4th level.
1 scout, 3 academic....2 and 2...etc ad infinitum.

If in your next term you do badly and you only get 3000 xps, you now have 9000 exps, you check the chart, that is 1000 exps away from 5th.
You do antoher term and you get 4000 exps, you are now at 13000 exps, you check the chart and you are 2000 away from 6th, you gained a level, you take it in whatever you want.

So in our example you'd done like 5 terms...you've gained enough exps to have 5 levels.

Is that any clearer?

Oh and please remember, there are NO dumb questions. You asking these questions means others just might as well be also and that helps us when we go to re-write or re-edit that we can clarify things.

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain

 

[theSea]

EDG - Yes it can be *quite* confusing....

Do at least *borrow* a D&D 3rd edition PHB or other 'core rules book' if you don't already have one and read the section on character creation (and later combat) - you will need the stuff and it will make much that is obscure clearer.

Couple of things to keep in mind:

You CANNOT advance in a service class unless you are in that career - if you want to build Scout levels you MUST be in the Scouts. The converse does not apply.

FEATS are a big reason to multi class - sure you can take any general (non-class specific) feat for your 'human bonus' feat and your character level feats - but your class level feats MUST come off of the class's feat list until you've taken them all. This can be limiting and is a good reason to multi-class. One term in the marines will buy you a huge number of combat feats that you'd be hard pressed to accumulate accumulate in five terms as an pure academic who 'dabbles' in combat skills....

Of course you could simply multi-class to Merc w/o leaving the academic profession (security guard perhaps) but IIRC the service classes are a little richer in opportunities than Merc.

Anyhow, Multiclassing is a trade off - first level in most classes buys you a lot of freebie feats - but each one of those level 1's costs you more and more XP... meanwhile you're not boosting your BAB and your skills are going to low - either because you've spread them all over the place or you're buying them expensively.

Remember that cross-class skill ranks are bought at 2 skill points per rank - so it's a good idea to level up in a class that has the skills you want as class skills so you can get ranks 1 for 1.

So you can be a 5th level character - level 1 in five different classes and a big time generalist, or level 5 in one class and very focused and specialised to the class skills and feats that go with. Or anything in between.

None of which necessarily relates to the profession you earned the XP in... but then it is YOUR character - if you want to take ALL of the XP you earn in university and apply them to Academic, by all means do so. It's certianly a sensical approach and I'm sure your character's parents will appreciate it much more than if you were leveling up in rogue the whole time

I think the point behind prior experience as laid out in T20 is to provide you a framework in which to build a character, while at the same time allowing you the flexability to build a large range of characters within that framework.

HTH and sorry to be so long winded.

 

[theSea]

oops - looks like some useful stuff got posted while I was typing.

I'm not going to edit - apologies for any duplication.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:

So say my Scout gets 6000 XP in his third Scout term, and wants to spend part of that as an Academic. Can he spend 3000 XP on Academic (to get straight him to Academic level 2 from scratch) and the other 3000 XP to get him nearer to level on Scout (which would take him to Scout level 7, since he has 18,500 XP already)?

But if that's so, then there'd be no need to ever change career (i.e. what you spend your terms in), would there - since you can just multiclass within your own career?

{Edit: Bruce said it better than I did}

It is true that there is not a lot of incentive to change careers (prior history), except failing to re-enlist or wanting to pursue a different service career. But there's no particualr reason not to change prior hsitory, especially if it helps improve your character concept. You could play a Navy engineer (mainly advancing in the Professional class) who left the service and began working for a merchant shipping line years ago. He could well have the same classes as someone who spent all that time in the Navy, but the back-story is different. And the opportunities for promotion, coimisioning, mustering out benefits, and such like are also different.