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Possible Supplement Ideas for T20

hunter

hunter

Ancient - Absent Friend
OK so we are hard at work refining out the core rules, what kind of supplements or adventures do you want to see us follow up with?

Here are some of the ideas already in mind:

Sector Quadrant Books
These books will cover a quadrant with a sector (4 subsectors) and detail 32 worlds within that area along with basic regional information and adventure material. 128 pages each expected.

The Zoological Survey
Basically a Creature/Monster manual for T20 describing and detailing beasts found around and near the Imperium.

Citizens of Gateway
More prestige classes, more detailed Prior Histories, etc...

What other ideas do you have?

Hunter
 
Being a gearhead by inclination, I'd love to see a ship/vehicle collection. The usefulness in other editions is assured if you include deckplans and pictures. Being the first broadly accurate collection (that didn't break design rules or be typo-ridden, or have truly awful layout) would be novel, but not necessary
biggrin.gif


If you feel more like spreading that stuff around (like GURPS:Trav has been doing) get a Safari ship into the Zoology book...
 
Myself, I'm really psyched about the T20 game, but I wouldn't buy any other supplements unless it was something different from what I currently have. I have 41 Traveller "books" altogether - at least the main rulebook from every version, as well as the Classic Reprints, and a ton of supplements. All I really want are really good conversion rules. I have everything else I need. Although, the ones you've listed sound really cool.

Just my 2 credits,

Scout
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
OK so we are hard at work refining out the core rules, what kind of supplements or adventures do you want to see us follow up with?

Here are some of the ideas already in mind:

Sector Quadrant Books
These books will cover a quadrant with a sector (4 subsectors) and detail 32 worlds within that area along with basic regional information and adventure material. 128 pages each expected. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a definite winner I think, especially if the adventure material is good. I'd recommend at least a brief paragraph on every world, just to get people thinking. In CT terms, contrast the details on the Regina Sector worlds in Kinunir with the detail on the worlds in Aramis in the Traveller Adventure

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The Zoological Survey
Basically a Creature/Monster manual for T20 describing and detailing beasts found around and near the Imperium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*Yawn* This sort of D&D hangover is a bit lame really. A supplement examining creature design in more depth and then giving a half dozen (short)adventures as examples (from a single creature centre stage to peripheral but well done animal encounters) strikes me as having more mileage and commercial appeal.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Citizens of Gateway
More prestige classes, more detailed Prior Histories, etc... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, apart from adding chrome and taking up shelf space, don't see how it adds to the game as people play it. A supplement that examines some of the incidents in recent Gateway history in greater depth, along with adventure hooks to find out what really happened (or to doctor the evidence...) has possibilities. A 76 Patrons of Gateway, with a less criminal bent and greater depth to the NPC's and the jobs would be cool.

As a suggestion, how about a volume of Spacers Tales? A set of myths, apocryphal stories and rumuours from all over the sector (quadrant) from Alien /Ancient Sites to lost ships etc. And for each give a few options as to the truth and ideas about how to use them in a campaign (either as linked elements or as side shows to an ongoing campaign).

Having not been very enthusiastic about the Monster Manual idea, a guide to the Alien Races would be very useful (again with adventure ideas embedded).

Hmm, bit of theme here: "X, with adventure ideas." In my defence, I personally find (and have anecdotal evidence that it's quite common) that whilst a background supplement MAY inspire my own scenario ideas, one with at least some adventure hooks ALWAYS spurs me to come up with some ideas of my own. I also think that the market will be bigger (and will be built better) by material that expands and elaborates the setting in a way that helps peoples games (e.g. the Quadrant books) rather than simple catalogues of things (monsters, people, big guns, whatever).


[This message has been edited by Gallowglass (edited 14 August 2001).]
 
I had an idea called "Mercenary Starship Claymore" it would be a combination adventure/sourcebook. 1 subsector (light to moderate detail), plans for a modified Merc Crusier, 2 10-page adventures, 2-3 pages of Patrons/Mercenary Tickets,(all the adventure material involving the given subsector and the merc cruiser) and the rest filled with rules for running mercenary games and additional weapons, vehicles and spacecraft.

------------------
Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
I had an idea called "Mercenary Starship Claymore" it would be a combination adventure/sourcebook. 1 subsector (light to moderate detail), plans for a modified Merc Crusier, 2 10-page adventures, 2-3 pages of Patrons/Mercenary Tickets,(all the adventure material involving the given subsector and the merc cruiser) and the rest filled with rules for running mercenary games and additional weapons, vehicles and spacecraft.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, possibly slightly specialist appeal, although with a little work you could make it appeal to non-merecnary orientated players (e.g. civilian specialist team attched to the Merc Company etc). And yet again it's that killer combo: useful general background, inspirational detail and solid material to get you started...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
Sector Quadrant Books
These books will cover a quadrant with a sector (4 subsectors) and detail 32 worlds within that area along with basic regional information and adventure material. 128 pages each expected.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This looks to be a great idea, but 128pp each seems a bit much (considering that Behind the Claw and Rim of Fire cover an entire sector in that much space). I'd prefer 64pp: with 1 page per world (like the world write-ups in Knightfall or Long Way Home) that leaves 32pp for general background and adventure material, which should be more than enough, and I know I'd be more likely to drop $12 for a 64pp book than $20 on a 128pp one (especially if you plan on releasing several of them).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The Zoological Survey
Basically a Creature/Monster manual for T20 describing and detailing beasts found around and near the Imperium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with the others who've said that from a Traveller standpoint this sounds like a yawn and I seriously doubt I'd buy it. However, from a d20 standpoint it might work, giving DMs a bunch of new sf-flavored baddies to throw into their D&D campaigns, and potential sales to D&Ders is the whole point of T20 anyway, right?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Citizens of Gateway
More prestige classes, more detailed Prior Histories, etc...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As described this sounds like a mostly d20-specific rulebook, which I'd almost certainly skip. A more interesting and generally useful concept IMO would be to keep the rules-stuff limited to 12pp or so and fill the rest with detailed Personality descriptions (a la JTAS Casual Encounters) and Patrons (12pp rules + 20 Personalities (@32pp) + 30 Patrons (@20pp) = 64pp book). Something like this could give lots of flavor and background color and give folks something to actually play as well.

Other things I'd like to see:
A big epic-style adventure. Patrons and hooks and mini-adventures are all well and good, and the more the better, but I also want a big honkin' 128pp Traveller Adventure style monster, something that's been sorely missing from the GT line. Except for canon-police screaming bloody murder, I'd be perfectly happy to see William Keith's 'Lords of Thunder' backdated, fleshed out, and adapted to T20 -- after all, it's in the right setting, and apparently its copyright reverted to FFE.

Of course, a catalog of starships including T20/HG stats (which are essenatially identical, right?), illustrations, deckplans, anecdotal/background info, etc. Something like what T4 Starships may have been had it been competently designed.

I'd also like to see a series of books expanding upon the various Traveller civilian careers - Scientists, Diplomats, Hunters, Belters, Rogues, Nobles, Agents, Entertainers, etc - giving expanded char-gen info and spot-rules (kept pretty light, though, since depending on its d20-specificity I'd likely skip it), catalogs of specialized ships and gear, and career-oriented patrons, hooks, and adventures. Such series were planned both for CT (by J. Andrew Keith) and T4 (announced titles from CORE) but neither really got off the ground, and so we're still stuck with scads of info on the military, scouts, and merchants but bare bones for everybody else, like we've had for the past 15 years.
 
How about a book on the sector economy and business scene - a merchant prince sourcebook with adventure hooks for a range of activities dealing with the economy. As a suggestion the themes could be:

(1) Section outlining the general economic organisation of the Gateway sector from trade connections, markets, fads and fashions and corporations (and rivalries).

(2) Free trader rules, free trader patrons, adventure hooks and random tables for cargo

(3) Corporations - including playing corporate execs, adventure hooks for corp sponsored adventures (mercenary missions, commercial espionage, sales missions) and patrons (again!)

(4) Mercantile ships - maybe a plan of a ship that hasn't appeared before in trav - (a high performance armoured frontier merchant is what us merchant prince campaigners are crying out for)
 
Something I forgot to add - how about a sourcebook on nobles, the gateway nobility and the noble player character campaign - plenty of political intrigue, patrons, adventure hooks and a Yacht schematic!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliot:
How about a book on the sector economy and business scene - a merchant prince sourcebook with adventure hooks for a range of activities dealing with the economy. <snip> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sounds like a great sourcebook to me, very high on the potential-buy-o-meter. And something like this would also be an ideal way to illustrate that in Traveller "adventures" don't necessarily involve murder, brigandage, or grave-robbery -- a lesson which will need to be taught well and often to the theoretical hordes of D&D munchkins that will soon begin descending on our nice little milieu
wink.gif
.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
[quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hunter:
Sector Quadrant Books
These books will cover a quadrant with a sector (4 subsectors) and detail 32 worlds within that area along with basic regional information and adventure material. 128 pages each expected.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This looks to be a great idea, but 128pp each seems a bit much (considering that Behind the Claw and Rim of Fire cover an entire sector in that much space). I'd prefer 64pp: with 1 page per world (like the world write-ups in Knightfall or Long Way Home) that leaves 32pp for general background and adventure material, which should be more than enough, and I know I'd be more likely to drop $12 for a 64pp book than $20 on a 128pp one (especially if you plan on releasing several of them).

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would like to see a book more along the lines of 96 ppg. long, with each world receiving a double-sided page dedicated to it. On one side would be the basic IISS and TAS reports on said planet, along with the icosahedral layout of the surface, and on the back would be the GM specific information and adventure hooks. In this way, the GM could simply hand the players a copy of what their characters would find should they desire to research their destination while keeping the secret info secret. It would still allow 32 pages for general information on the sector quadrant, hopefully to include some TAS reports relating to the area, for use by the players as well as the GM.

Simon Jester



------------------
-If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Jester:
I would like to see a book more along the lines of 96 ppg. long, with each world receiving a double-sided page dedicated to it. On one side would be the basic IISS and TAS reports on said planet, along with the icosahedral layout of the surface, and on the back would be the GM specific information and adventure hooks. In this way, the GM could simply hand the players a copy of what their characters would find should they desire to research their destination while keeping the secret info secret. It would still allow 32 pages for general information on the sector quadrant, hopefully to include some TAS reports relating to the area, for use by the players as well as the GM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, 2pp (one Library Data, one GM only) per world would probably work best, but then how much detail is QuikLink wanting to provide for all these worlds? After all, even The Traveller Adventure only details a dozen or so worlds enough to fill 2pp of text. If they're planning to release several of these Sector Quad books (which I assume they are), trying to provide too much info on too many worlds is going to quickly drain the idea pool and leave us with books full of by-the-numbers carbon copies and/or one-trick ponies.

To keep expectations realistic, I think a 'less is more' approach is probably best: in each Quadrant detail a handful of worlds (3-4) to full multi-page (Adventure) level, a dozen or so more to approx. 1 page 'interesting background' (Amber Zone) level, a paragraph or two (Patron Encounter) for the next 16, and the other 100 or so UWP-only. That, combined with the extra detail that will presumably be included in other adventures and sourcebooks set in those regions, should provide more than enough to keep most gaming groups plenty busy.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliot:
Something I forgot to add - how about a sourcebook on nobles, the gateway nobility and the noble player character campaign - plenty of political intrigue, patrons, adventure hooks and a Yacht schematic!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now there's a model to conjure with. In parallel with the Quadrant books (General reference and adventure material), how about books keyed to particular spheres of endevaour / interest within the Domain? Each could detail a particular aspect/profession of Imperial life in the Domain, prominent people involved in that field, places / organisations of interest and scenario hooks, plus at least one substatntial adventure. With judicious writing, these can be useful reference works even if people aren't playing in a campaign that focuses on that aspect of the OTU

So, as suggested already:

Mercenary Companies
Nobility
Trade (Both Mega-Corps and Frre Traders).

As additional suggestions:

Explorers / Scientists (Archaelogy, Xenobiology etc)
Covert Agencies
Diplomacy (Possibly combine with Agencies?)

If these are done to cover a wider sweep of the domain, leaving the Quadrant books to paint in the details as it were, I think you have a nice combination.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gallowglass Re Quadrant books:
This is a definite winner I think, especially if the adventure material is good. I'd recommend at least a brief paragraph on every world, just to get people thinking. In CT terms, contrast the details on the Regina Sector worlds in Kinunir with the detail on the worlds in Aramis in the Traveller Adventure
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Okay, I strongly disagree with this (and I know I seem to be going against the flow here), but I demand rigidly defined areas of uncertainty and doubt (nod to recently deceased author). I very definitely *do not* want to see every world detailed. In fact I don't even want to see most of them detailed. even if its just a paragraph (actually especially if its just a paragraph). At the very least half the worlds should be left absolutely untouched.


Detailing all the world might seem like a really good idea, but BtC showed fairly clearly that it isn't. You end up with just enough detail to stifle umpire creativity and not enough detail to make the world come to life. Much better to have a few worlds done to a respectable level than all done "just a bit"


What I'd like to see in a quadrant book is plenty of plot hooks, NPC's, some short adventures. Do one subsector in depth, and give a quick overview of the other three (give enough information to give the feel of a subsector as a whole, but leave plenty of wiggle room for umpire development).


[This message has been edited by Andrewmv (edited 15 August 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrewmv:

Okay, I strongly disagree with this (and I know I seem to be going against the flow here), but I demand rigidly defined areas of uncertainty and doubt (nod to recently deceased author). I very definitely *do not* want to see every world detailed. In fact I don't even want to see most of them detailed. even if its just a paragraph (actually especially if its just a paragraph). At the very least half the worlds should be left absolutely untouched.

Detailing all the world might seem like a really good idea, but BtC showed fairly clearly that it isn't. You end up with just enough detail to stifle umpire creativity and not enough detail to make the world come to life. Much better to have a few worlds done to a respectable level than all done "just a bit"

What I'd like to see in a quadrant book is plenty of plot hooks, NPC's, some short adventures. Do one subsector in depth, and give a quick overview of the other three (give enough information to give the feel of a subsector as a whole, but leave plenty of wiggle room for umpire development).

[This message has been edited by Andrewmv (edited 15 August 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, can't comment on BtC (haven't read it). And I did realise after I'd posted that there is th equestion of the "blank spaces". But I'd still think at least a couple of lines beyond the UWP is a good idea. If a ref doesn't like the info, he can ignore it, but it at least gives him a hook to start thinking about how he'd interpret that UWP. I HATE staring at a UWP trying to think of something interesting to say with a bunch of players waiting on my words. And you just know that the planet in Jump range you have NO info on is th eone they'll take a shine to...

And within the context of a quadrant book, we are probably talking about a sentence or two for the non-detailed worlds, rather than half or quarter page paragraphs. But I agree that it is worth defining a certain level of "indeterminacy" to what is published.

As a side shoot, the one GT thing I _have_ taken a shine to is the planetary surveys. I like their tight focus and i particular the (usually included) side bar on varying the feel of th eplanet to suit a campaign style. A similar approach with the Quadrant etc books would be good. Plus I like the idea of leaving details _explicitly_ to the ref e.g. don't specify which world the pirate base is on, give three likely candidiates and some guidance on the different consequences...

In defense of detailing as much as possibly to some degress, if these supplements have to appeal to both Traveller AND d20 players, then they have to take the D&D/d20 appraoch and be written with the assumption they are holding a novices hand. Confident experienced refs (d20 or Traveller) will ignore what they don't need, but this appraoch maximises the market appeal I reckon.

Let's be honest, I'm thinking of the Quadrant books as something _like_ the Traveller Adventure, but covering 4 subsectors, not one.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:

What other ideas do you have?

Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If T20 is aimed at capturing new players, maybe players new to Science Fiction gaming I would make my initial releases detailing core SF elements such as STARSHIPS.

Traveller Adventure:1 was a fantastic balance between source material and adventure material. Kick-Ass deck plans are a must.


How about a World Sourcebook. Instead of detailing specific worlds create a book which helps novice referees create alien worlds.(Not create statistics but to breathe life into statistics such as the UWP.

You can detail play in different environments, with adventure hooks. For example you could detail play in deserts, include example flora and fauna, encounter tables.

Where would Traveller be without patrons ;)
and a sourcebook chocked filled with potential adventure hooks.
 
I mostly agree with Andrewmv about the Quad Books. A sentence or two of detail isn't going to provide much more on-the-fly GMing help than just a UWP and will definitely handcuff and stifle GM creativity. I know I'm not alone in feeling that Behind the Claw has pretty much the opposite of its intended effect: for every world of the Spinward Marches I've now got a paragraph of 'official' description, but it's almost always substantially different (and usually, I daresay, less interesting) than what I would've come up with on my own, and in order to change it I have to make a conscious decision to "alter Canon" and thus forevermore brand my campaign as variant/Unofficial/Alternate Universe/etc.

While I'm not such a hidebound canonista that I'm unwilling to swerve from the path at all, I'd just as soon avoid doing so where possible, and would rather not be forced into such 'moral dilemmas' over a single paragraph description that barely provides any more substantive info than a lone UWP would've.

But the 'wandering player syndrome' is also real, and few things are more annoying than watching them head straight for the areas about which you know absolutely nothing. Therefore, I think the worlds detailed in the Quad Books should be chosen strategically: roughly 3/4 of them should be close together, providing an area where the players will hit detailed worlds no matter which way they turn. GMs wanting more freedom can stick to the other subsectors, where only general trends and a small handful of worlds will be detailed (which I realize now is essentially the same as what Andrewmv just suggested; good to see we agree more here than on the T^5 task system
wink.gif
).

Another wish/suggestion: when choosing which worlds in a quadrant to detail, don't automatically go for all the 'interesting' worlds: if every HiPop, High TL, and weird UWP world is described in detail and the individual ref is only 'free' to detail a bunch of near-identical rockballs and low-tech Ag worlds then thanks for nothing. Detail a mix of world-types, including some 'boring' worlds, and leave some oddities and 'fun stuff' as exercises for the GM -- but make sure they're remote enough from the 'central area' that players won't immediately start heading for them before the GM has had time to work something up.

[This message has been edited by T. Foster (edited 15 August 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
Yeah, 2pp (one Library Data, one GM only) per world would probably work best, but then how much detail is QuikLink wanting to provide for all these worlds? After all, even The Traveller Adventure only details a dozen or so worlds enough to fill 2pp of text. If they're planning to release several of these Sector Quad books (which I assume they are), trying to provide too much info on too many worlds is going to quickly drain the idea pool and leave us with books full of by-the-numbers carbon copies and/or one-trick ponies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree generally with your viewpoint, but the page layout I had in mind was something along these lines:
1. The top 1/3 would be taken up with the icosahedral surface plot of the planet, with a line plot of the solar system below it, with the various planets and moons represented along the solar ecliptic by the standard markings for gas planet, asteroid field, main world, etc. Together, these should take up 1/2 of the page.
2. In the right-hand column in the lower half od the page would be a basic description of the main planet, showing gravity, atmospheric composition, population, etc., esentially the same way the World Builder's Handbook does it, with suitable modifications to avoid copyright infringement. This should follow the same guidelined that a T20 world builder's book uses (suggested by Gallowglass, IIRC).
3. The remaining two half-page columns would provide sufficient space for a basic description of what the planet is like, as reported by an IISS scout or the TAS. This does NOT have to be accurate, of course.
4. The GM's side would be roughly the same, only showing the actual details of the planet and system. Not all of this space has to be used, but any unused space can be used by the GM for making notes, etc.

As for having too much detail for the book, we're only talking about 32 planets out of four subsectors, each hjolding anywhere between 20 and 40 planets. There's plenty of space left for the GM's creativity to run rampant.

Simon Jester



------------------
-If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
 
Actually, after thinking about it for a while, a grand epic type of supplement would be really great, like the Traveller Adventure. Something that would scream Traveller - and incorporate a lot of different ideas (please no Subsidized Merchants, tho!). Scouts, Mercs, Traders, Spies, etc... Maybe something that has 4 or 5 or so basic long-range/galaxy-wide adventures interspersed with a couple of handfulls of small one-shots and mid-range adventures. Definitely an Ancient adventure interspersed in there, and maybe something to do with the Emperor & knighting, etc...

Later,

Scout
 
As T20 is mostly aimed at getting the D20 crowd to try something new, the most important things after the core rulebook are adventures. Either a single book, Traveller Adventure style, or a set of linked modules like Wizards are doing with 3E. I'd probably say that the linked modules idea would go down better because they'd be more or less ready to run. As good as the Traveller Adventure was it still needed a fair amount of work from the ref.

------------------
Paul
 
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