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Playing By E-Mail - An Informal Survey.

I just started playing in a PBEM Traveller campaign. The last one I played in was over ten years ago, on a 1200-baud dial-up BBS. (remember those?)

A few questions have come up. If you are or have been involved in a PBEM Traveller campaign:

1) What was the average time per turn?

2) How long did you stay with it?

3) What was your biggest gripe?

4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?

5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?

Thank you.

KR
 
Originally posted by Keklas Rekobah:
I just started playing in a PBEM Traveller campaign. The last one I played in was over ten years ago, on a 1200-baud dial-up BBS. (remember those?)

A few questions have come up. If you are or have been involved in a PBEM Traveller campaign:

1) What was the average time per turn?
We usually run 3-4 days per turn, or twice a week.


2) How long did you stay with it?
The game has now been running for about a year and a half and still going strong. We're about to start our third adventure.


3) What was your biggest gripe?
I think that you're wanting gripes from the player's perspective, so I'll refrain from answering this one since I'm the Referee.



4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?
I can answer from my perspective (3), but I'd be curious to see if any of my players answer. ;)



5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?
Again, not a good one for me to answer. ;)

If you're curious to see how we do it, our game is at The Tales of the Bray Keaven for the current game and compiled as a story hour by Paraquat Johnson.

Ron
 
I lurk in about a sqillion PBEMs and one thing I'd say is don't even think about averages, just look at the range. There is no trend.

Ron's PBEM is very organised and regular, IMO partly because he drives it along and is strict when he needs to be and partly because he got hold of players who take it seriously.

Then there are PBEMs which go for a week without a post and then have a sudden flurry, and everyone seems happy.

I've seen a couple of PBEMs where the messages flew so thick and fast that they were crossing, and there were problems because people were posting stuff that got ignored. But this is a problem I'd like to have.

I do see quite a lot of player freedom in PBEMs. I think they can be pretty good for this, because the ref gets time to think. He can be reactive. It's not like a F2F session where the ref might have to run a published adventure because he doesn't have time to make up his own. PBEMs tend to spend 1-6 months covering a day planetside.

I'd have two suggestions for anyone running a PBEM.

1. Make it clear up front what sort of play you're looking for, and get people who are happy with it. Form a "social contract" about how often people (normally) read, how often they (normally) post, what happens when they know they'll be absent (e.g. ref takes over character), what happens when they vanish without warning (e.g. ref waits 24 hours, then runs the PC, then recruits new player for PC after 2 weeks). Then be flexible about it.

2. Get your mechanics set up to minimise back-and-forth posting. Either train everyone to include six dice rolls with every post or have the ref do the rolls, as you like. And insist on contingencies: "I try to do this, if it works I do that, if it fails I do the other." This especially vital if you have players in different timezones, and the European will not be replying to the American for another 10 hours.

Don't spend 12-48 hours exchanging ten short emails to go through "I shoot at ---", "roll attack", "I rolled ---", "you hit, roll damage", "I rolled ---", "He staggers, what's your second attack of the round?", etc etc. You want one player post saying "I fire a burst for damage then a burst to hit, first burst goes to Sydite #1, second switches to the Vargr if Sydite #1 drops, here are six rolls" and a GM reply saying "this happened".
 
I ran one, am currently playing in one, and have been in several non-Traveller PBEMs over the years.

1) What was the average time per turn?

The Trav ones didn't use turns, the others were 3-4 days.

2) How long did you stay with it?

4 years/8 months+/about a year on average.

3) What was your biggest gripe?

Slow. Players drop out.

4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?

4

5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?

2-4
 
Originally posted by Keklas Rekobah:
I just started playing in a PBEM Traveller campaign. The last one I played in was over ten years ago, on a 1200-baud dial-up BBS. (remember those?)

A few questions have come up. If you are or have been involved in a PBEM Traveller campaign:

1) What was the average time per turn?

2) How long did you stay with it?

3) What was your biggest gripe?

4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?

5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?

Thank you.

KR
I am one of the player's in Ron's PBEM game.

1. We started out with a rule of everyone having 48 hours to respond to a post or post what their character was doing based upon events in the game, but in practice we usually leave it at a couple of times a week.

2. We've been playing for 17 months now. I think Ron and I are the only original participants. But all of the people playing now have been playing for several months.

3. Biggest gripe, huh? You mean other than not being able to walk into a store in any starport and be able to buy any weapon in the book? :D No, I'm just kidding.

Biggest gripe would be varying levels of participation by the players. Some players don't post their character actions very frequently, so I as a player am never sure where they are or what they are doing. Sometimes I even forget they're part of the crew.

Then we have other players who try to do too much at once, especially during combat. They post 15 rounds worth of actions at one time, so again it can be difficult knowing exactly where they are and what they are doing.

Ron does a good job of reining in the excitable players and prompting the laggards to keep everyone synched up. But I could see how without a GM running the game who takes a proactive role in this regard, things could easily spin out of control very quickly.

4. I'd say about a 3. We have a lot of freedom of choice, but can't just run wild whenever we want. This is partly because of the situation -- if you're in a ship in jump space, you've got nowhere else to go -- and partly from practical considerations -- we're a crew on a merchant ship, so we can't just go off on our own every time we want to; we have jobs to do and obligations to the other characters. But we're also not tied to each other.

5. Degree of detail varies, depending on the situation, but overall I'd say 3. Sometimes we don't get, nor do we need, a lot of detail if we're just trying to move the adventure along. But sometimes -- such as combat, or potentially dangerous situations -- the degree of detail has to increase just so the characters know their options and can make informed decisions.
 
I was in a pbem run by Mark Urbin, T20 Pulp PBEM that is still going. Though I am no longer playing I did enjoy it and the group. Brown Fox is originally from that game and I doubt I would have been able to develop him quite as well without his origin being in a PBEM.

Originally posted by Keklas Rekobah:

1) What was the average time per turn?
There really isn't any use of turns. Since the group ranges from West Coast USA to the UK turnaround time is often anywhere from a few minutes to several days.
2) How long did you stay with it?
About 3-4 months of really active play. After that I lost focus. I eventually bowed out of the game though I still have high respect for the GM, the players, and the game itself. Among other things it got me back into playing Traveller and was my first game with T20.
3) What was your biggest gripe?
The length of real time it took to do most anything. Frankly I find online IRC gaming more enjoyable and FtF the best. PBEM does give more time to think before posting which is good and bad.
4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?
3 ; the GM did a good job of making corrections / restrictions when needed but the players were good enough that this wasn't usually needed.
5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?
3 ; a good bit of detail and well written; however this is a Pulp game ;)


Casey (who needs to post the latest T20 stats for Brown Fox)
 
1) What was the average time per turn?
-------------
Varies. I'm involved in three or four. Some have multiple turns in a day sometimes, some have a turn every day, some have a turn every few days, some seem slower yet. A turn every two days is probably a minimum to seem responsive and fun. A response every day is better. The response rate must preforce be higher if you are the referee.

2) How long did you stay with it?
---------
Well, the current one I'm in about a month or so now. The ones I'm running went on hiatus due to family tragedy, but I expect to pick those up again. They can go through dormant phases and recover.

3) What was your biggest gripe?
--------
None really. Or from my perspective, having to work over unreliable dial up. But otherwise, my only other gripe is the inability (on megatraveller.com) to sub-thread - that is to say to create a game, then create sub-threads that can hold bits of the story (much like rpol allows, though rpol's response latencies are higher).

4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?
------------
Depends on your GM. In mine, I make a point to frequently 'redescribe' the situation in toto, so everyone knows where they are and what everyone is doing (it eliminates confusion, I find). But I pretty much define the nature of the campaign, but let players choose direction and actions mostly after character creation (I like to guide that to build a strong initial framework for the game - I notice games where the ref says 'just bring a PC' and then leaves it to the characters to weld themselves together seem to have more difficult or contrived starts - giving a baseline direction and working on appropriate characters makes things much easier). But the point of the game is role-playing - to you have to give the players the freedom to do that. I set the situation - they react - I adjudicate results. The wisdom or lack thereof of their decisions tends to colour the result...

5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?
-----------
Detail and Realistic aren't really the same. One game I'm playing in is sticking close to CT with the less-than-bright computers, so I filed a simple query and overloaded all the ship's key systems (a strict rules interpretation based on comments about programs in the CT rules). OTOH, in my own games, I presume a high level of intelligence on behalf of the characters and the equipment at high tech levels, and always remember the characters are experienced veterans even if the players aren't, so I point out if they are about to do something their character would know is a bad idea. I let them play, but I advise them. And I try to give clear pictures and descriptions wherever I can. In combat, I update the 'situation' every round, then ask people what they are doing in the coming round, then adjudicate the results, posting the next update. This seems to work okay.
 
Originally posted by Paraquat Johnson:


2. We've been playing for 17 months now. I think Ron and I are the only original participants. But all of the people playing now have been playing for several months.
Up until recently, we had another original participant, but someone else is taking over his character now. That said, Flynn and Rolok Dargarian (aka Davy) have been with us over a year, and Roger is one of the original players (though he took a bit of a hiatus in the middle).



3. Biggest gripe, huh? You mean other than not being able to walk into a store in any starport and be able to buy any weapon in the book? :D No, I'm just kidding.
<Dangerously neutral Referee tone indicating the Referee is playing out rope for the players to potentially hang themselves> Well, the stores can certainly be changed to stock any weapon or armor in the book for sale to anyone who walks in the door.
file_23.gif


Ron
 
Originally posted by Keklas Rekobah:
A few questions have come up. If you are or have been involved in a PBEM Traveller campaign:

1) What was the average time per turn?


I've participated in Michel Vallaincourt's second Traveller Near Earth Campaign (TNEC) for six months or so (CT, ATU); Roger Barr's TNEC follow-up campaign for about four months or something like that (MT, ATU); and am now involved in Ron's Bray Keavan game for these last sixteen months (T20, OTU) as well as Greg's Over The Edge pbem for the last three months or so (CT, OTU).

Average turn-around time on most of these seems to be 2-3 days. Sometimes, action ups the turnaround time, and holidays decrease it, but in general, you get about two turns or so a week.

The OTE campaign, however, has a higher turnaround time, though about 1 day seems to be a good estimate. Also, the turn structure is somewhat less formal, but it works for that group.

I've seen a few fantasy pbems, but they just didn't work like Traveller does.

2) How long did you stay with it?

In the two TNEC campaigns, as long as they lasted. They were a lot of fun, and set my standards high. So far, I haven't been disappointed with my two current ones, which I am still actively involved in, nor do I think I will be.

3) What was your biggest gripe?

In general, it's a matter of Real Life (TM) versus game. When any of us, player or referee, have some RL issues come up, game play deteriorates because of the decrease in communications. However, I'm as much at fault as the next guy, so it's all good in the grand scheme of things. I often tell the Ref that if I don't answer in time, they are free to make assumptions as to my character's actions. It seems to remove some of that sting.


4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?

In general, I'd say 3-4. We have near-complete freedom of choice, although some choices have consequences. Fortunately, I've almost always gamed with mature players that work with the universe rather than against it, and so we don't often end up being hunted by everyone under the suns. (But some cargo, on the other hand... ;) )

5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?

I don't think that's the best way to describe detail here. Do I get enough? Yes. Do I wish I had more detail? No more than I'd want in a FTF game. Can I picture the action as it occurs? Yes. Yeah, my Refs all deserve 4's, if that's a good thing in this particular evaluation. They do great jobs.
In closing, I find PBEMs very rewarding, and consider myself fortunate that I have yet to be involved in a bad one. I'm sure they're out there, but so far, every Traveller PBEM I've been in has been great!


Happy Travellin',
Flynn
 
I'm in my first PBEM right now, and have just ended a "session of sessions" playing face to face. Overall, I think I prefer f-t-f, for the human interaction factor (as in, not removed by unknown miles and at least two computer screens), but other than that they're about equal.
 
Thunderation!

I re-sent my second turn A WEEK AGO and haven't received any response!!

PBEM games have a negative pressure coefficient with a relativistic flow velocity!!!

IMHO. of course...

KR
 
I've played in several and have ref'd two PBEMs. In my experience forward motion in a game is relative. A few I've been associated were very steady for a year and then faded out. One moved very slowly with an average of perhaps 10 posts a month but it keeps going. One Star Trek game I'm in has reinvented itself 2.5 times and there's a core group of us who just won't let it die (it's racked up 6000+ posts over time).

The biggest determining factor for how good a game has been is the players involved. I have seen wonderful roleplaying and I hate it when these outstanding players move on to other things.

My last experience at trying a F2F game was so dismal that I'm glad PBEMs exist.
 
My personal experience with PBEMs is that the GM/Referee has to keep the game moving forward. Games that stall or move too slowly seem to end up stalling permanently. The players play a big role in keeping the game moving, but, fundamentally, the GM has to have the mantra of "keep the game moving forward" running through his head.

Ron

PS: I wrote a PBEM primer as a CoTI article that has been accepted (Thanks Martin!). I should update the article at some point soon, and, hopefully, CoTI articles will start getting published again in the near future.
 
there are two game approaches.

1) the referee has a story to tell, and he expects the players to be passive participants or active spectators. the referee "keeps the game moving forward" by telling his story and making sure the players follow it.

2) the players are roleplayers, and the referee simply sets the stage for them. the players keep the game moving - though perhaps not "forward".

a slowed or stalled game happens when a stage-setting referee has passive-spectator players.
 
Originally posted by flykiller:
there are two game approaches.

1) the referee has a story to tell, and he expects the players to be passive participants or active spectators. the referee "keeps the game moving forward" by telling his story and making sure the players follow it.

2) the players are roleplayers, and the referee simply sets the stage for them. the players keep the game moving - though perhaps not "forward".

a slowed or stalled game happens when a stage-setting referee has passive-spectator players.
I would disagree a bit with the broad characterizations, particularly online.

There are games where the referee has a story to tell, and the characters have to follow the narrative of the story, but just because it's important for the referee to keep the game moving doesn't imply that the storyline is fixed or that players are passive participants or active spectators rather than roleplayers.

In the second case, the referee can't just set the stage and then become a passive partcipant while the players take the game from there. Okay, it might work with an exceptional group of players, but I think that those groups are few and far between. The odds are against a random group of PBEM players coming together and having things gel without nudging from the referee. Even with an exceptional group, if things start to slow down, it's imperative for the referee to be proactive and keep things moving by tossing something in to stir up the players.

For things to work, everyone (or nearly everyone) has to be an active participant in the game.

Ron
 
1) For Trillion Credit Squadron, the turn was about one week! But then, we only lasted three turns :( In "Working Passage" there are no actual turns: it runs more like a F2F game.

2) "Working Passage" is still alive, though currently not kicking. I won't start to really worry about its silence until, say, June 1.

3) What was your biggest gripe?
TCS was very hard to manage; I believe there was no software helpers used to manage the game; LAMP technology could make this less of a problem nowadays.

4) "Working Passage" allows total freedom. As did TCS I suppose.

5) Our referee for WP has the TU detailed quite well, and of course we try to chip in to add to the atmosphere.


Hmm, you've made me start thinking about a TCS server...
 
Originally posted by flykiller:
there are two game approaches.

1) the referee has a story to tell, and he expects the players to be passive participants or active spectators. the referee "keeps the game moving forward" by telling his story and making sure the players follow it.

2) the players are roleplayers, and the referee simply sets the stage for them. the players keep the game moving - though perhaps not "forward".

a slowed or stalled game happens when a stage-setting referee has passive-spectator players.
These two statements are bipolar opposites of a much broader continuum of play - either the players or the referee have near-total control over the game. This is only part of the issue.

Imagine three orthogonal axis, each with the referee is at one end, and the players at the other:

X) The Control Axis: Who has the most control over events in the game's storyline?

Y) The Involvement Axis: Who is more active (versus passive) in making the game interesting for all?

Z) The Committment Axis: Who is more likely to 'be there' on time, every time a game session (or game turn) occurs?

The balance point may not be at {0,0,0} all the time, and it may change radically with each new adventure, player and referee. Balance is very important.

But keeping the game fun is the most important aspect of all. If the game is not fun, then it become boring (at best) or tedious (at worst). Lose the fun and you lose the players (and the ref!).
 
Imagine three orthogonal axis, each with the referee is at one end, and the players at the other: (etc)
well, presumably the referee is there for each game session, so the Z axis here is relative to the players, not the game. and interest is the actual issue at hand, whether the interest is telling/hearing a story or running/supporting a character.

the way I stated it seems to be a useful tool for understanding what is happening within a game and a good guide for responding appropriately. 'spose you could say it varies back and forth between the two "bi-polars".
 
I've been involved with a few different PBEMS, the first one was a big Traveller ringworld exploration & I'm just picking up playing again after a long gap.

1) What was the average time per turn?

I've never been in a 'turn-based' game that got off the ground, they've all been very loosely timed depending on the number of players. The biggest gave us all a few days to respond while smaller ones where all the players were quick off the mark have turned things round in a few hours.

2) How long did you stay with it?

Over a year for the first one (then I lost my email) About half the games I've joined never got started, half of the rest folded before finishing the first turn. On average, they've lasted about a month before running out of steam.

3) What was your biggest gripe?

Depends on the game - for some of them it was powergames pushing their luck with unbelievable 'dice rolls', for others it was players or the ref loosing interest and letting the game suffocate.

4) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Complete", how much freedom did your characters have in their chioce of action?

Usually only a 2-3, I've never been completly railroaded but some games have come close. Too much freedom seems to attract powergames who all want amazing-special-powers(tm).

5) On a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being "None" and 4 being "Realistic", how much detail did the referee provide for you each turn?

Can't really answer that one - we could always get more detail from the ref if we wanted it.

The thing I like most about PBEM is being able to think before you post, I find it helps me stay in character rather than just playing me with some extra skills & stats.
 
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