Planet UPPs

[ravells]

I really hate the string of numbers UPP. I just don't have the sort of mind which can make immediate sense of the information without having to look it all up.

So I'm trying to come up with a way to represent UPP information more graphically - this is my first effort. I'm still not entirely happy with it, but I wondered if you had any thoughts? It is too cluttered (I think it is) for the important information to stand out? What is the important information anyway?

I'm keen to keep it grayscale, it's more of a challenge but more Traveller-ish IMO.

 

[BytePro]

Very nice job, but fails at making things apparent at a glance...

Assuming that's your goal, here's some ideas borrowed from my own past visuals that you might be able to draw from (pun)...

• Size as a world outline imposed over a larger gray circle (upto max size) - left, bottom justified.
• Hydro as water line (wave topped) 'filling' the world outline
• Law Level with symbols (mushroom cloud, gun, shotgun, etc. w/slashed circles).
• Atmo - gas (filter) mask, O2 attachment, O2 tanks, space suits.
• (Temp = thermometer; Pressure = pressure gauge)
• Pop - power of tens represented by 'stick' people.

Other thoughts:

• Put a 'ring' around the GG counter
• Put the UPP in there somewhere

Bases need better symbols than wingdings...

EDIT:
Oh, and a station symbol for a highport indicator and a tower for the down port...

 

[ravells]

Brilliant, thanks. This is exactly the sort of feedback I was after.

 

[atpollard]

An interesting approach ... I like the old paragraphs for describing Starships (vs the USP) so I would probably convert it to a standard paragraph description if the world that replaces the numbers with descriptive terms.

 

[bryteone]

I like this graphical representation. I think that the display of the UPP code has always been...antiquated.
Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[robject]

I'm fine with the UWP -- I like its compactness -- but pages and pages of them don't do players any good. They're for reference, not for use.

A graphical method is very cool -- your example is really cool -- and basically has as its end a user interface: how would an app display basic world data in a useful and playable way?

First, the data to display needs to be geared towards play. So pressure, temp, and atmo could be coded into one indicator. Taint would be coded into another. Gravity would be a third.

After that, though, I punt. Graphical data encodes very basic data, rather than the number of zeros after a population digit. I tend to do the text block, myself.

However, I do encode some trade codes with color:

Green: Ag world
Gold: Ri world
Purple: Ag Ri world
Blue: Wet world
Empty circle: vacuum world
Black dot, center: Industrial world

 

[BytePro]

Oops, forgot to mention...

Like Starport Type, don't really see that TL benefits from a visual.

(Symbols could work, perhaps starships, floating gravitics, etc., but that would be way to busy and is something a simple legend/lookup table somewhere else provides...)

Oh, and don't forget the trade classifications!

I never used anything extra for the physically descriptive ones (Water/Vacc/Asteroid/Ice-capped) since that was covered, but for the more trade specific (IMO) : Agri = wheat; Industrial = refinery profile; Rich = stacked coins. The opposed types Poor, Non-Ag, Non-Industrial I just used circle slash over them. (Think B 7 added some I didn't use...)

Anyway, I hope that helps...

 

[DangerousThing]

That's a busy graphic, which is fine for a large representation. I'll admit that I can't read UWP codes myself, but they are compact and I can work them out with the book.

I don't think that any rich graphic will fit in a small hex. Though maybe you could design both the large one and a smaller one that just has the highlights.

 

[ravells]

Cheers everyone. Sorry I should have said. This is not for putting in a map hex, that would be a big ask for the amount of info. Then again...I haven't really thought what it might be for - putting in an adventure module write up? Creating them in advance, printing them out and handing them out at Cons? Maybe it's a read-out that you see on your computer screen on board ship?

If one is going to do things by hand, then at Pollards text description is the most versatile and precise way of going about doing it. But like robject I was thinking of displaying the information graphically in a way that was compact, attractive and easy to understand. I'm using the Mongoose rules (which are the ones I have to hand) - not sure how far they follow CT descriptors.

Perhaps I should split it into two displays - one for physical properties and the other for political properties. The interesting thing about icons is that when you shrink the image down small, they become much harder to read than letters.

I don't think it needs to be too obvious, for example I don't think it needs a population graphic if the units already tell you what the meter measures - you only need to be told once. I do like the ability to be able to do a comparison to earth figures (that's what the little triangular ticks are for).

I thought 15 (E) was as high as most things went in Traveller?

 

[Dragoner]

15 is F. In Mongoose, you have TL 16, and I don't know for other things, but you get some different government codes in CT at least, like X for Droyne Hierarchy or H for Aslan Clan Government.

 

[BytePro]

I presumed the graphic would be used on a page writeup that included other details not encoded by the UPP... some nice eye-candy that would double as a useful game aid.

My symbol recommendations come from my worldmaps - for listings its UPP all the way for myself - and I would still include the UPP in the graphic.

(My only gripe with UPP is a that Law and Gov are not really a numeric scale so much as discrete encodings. MgT did (try at least) to use Law Level in a dice mechanic, IIRC. <shrug>)

 

[ravells]

Apologies 15 is F in Hex - my bad calcuatin' !

 

[DangerousThing]

Cheers everyone. Sorry I should have said. This is not for putting in a map hex, that would be a big ask for the amount of info. Then again...I haven't really thought what it might be for - putting in an adventure module write up? Creating them in advance, printing them out and handing them out at Cons? Maybe it's a read-out that you see on your computer screen on board ship?

I would love to see a small version that could replace the "world" image in a map. All it needs is the major information if I'm scanning a map then I could get the one with more information.

I wouldn't do any of these by hand. I can't do this sort of thing even in photoshop without more time than I'm willing to put into it.

However, once the format is set, it should be fairly easy to write a server to create these given the UWP. You give it the UPP, and it produces a gif.

 

[aramis]

Nifty, but not something I'd use.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I think this is a very interesting idea. I might not use it, as I read tables of data pretty easily (at least when it's data that should be in tables). But, it could add a bit of flavor to presenting world data. So, take all of the following as critique, not criticism.

*puts on my engineering hat*
The difficulty is the amount of information you're trying to convey. A graphic typically can only convey a handful of data points before it becomes too cluttered to be useful. To convey more data, you have to spread the data points out, clustering them so the eyes can move from one related set of data to another.

Another difficulty is that graphical representations only work if you're comparing something, or giving data that only has a few possible states. In the case of a gauge (like the tachometer or the speedometer in your car) you are comparing the state to a number, or you are comparing it to a concept of completeness (or fullness to use the example of your fuel gauge). You can also compare two things to each other using a visual representation. (This is the reason multi-engine aircraft put the same engine information gauges right next to each other - you don't have to read the dial to know that one engine is out of kilter with the others, which is a sure sign of trouble, just observe that they don't all look the same.)

The hydrography portion of your graphic does that very well. The atmospheric portion sort of does. There are two difficulties with that bit. First, you have two indicators. I understand the one is to show "Earth normal". But, the other indicator isn't obvious enough (because of the limitation you have imposed - greyscale) and your eye gets drawn to the little triangle, confusing what you're looking at. If the main indicator moved (which is silly) it might work, or if it were a more obvious indicator. What you might do is place the little triangle directly on the line in the scale, or make the scale mark different in some way (if you went with color, you could make that tick mark green, for example). The second issue is the counter-intuitiveness of the scale when placed next to the hydrography data: hydrography only goes up to A (100%), while your atmo ring goes up past C. You might take the atmo ring up to "100%", then add an indicator for the odd ones (A and above)... but I think that might be awkward, too, since the atmo code isn't really a percentage. It's not a deal-killer, but it's not the preferred way to display data (use the same scale when they're basically on the same dial) - you might be left with a "best effort" answer.

The size scale shouldn't be super-imposed the way it is, as the brain wants to connect it to the hydro/atmo scales somehow. This is primarily because you are using greyscale, and a line - if you could distinguish it, then it would be easier to separate the data (while still keeping the related information clustered). And, of course, it has the same limitation as the atmo gauge in terms of the "Earth normal" triangle. A possible solution to both.... make it a tape (or strip) gauge, with a bar showing the planet's size, and make the appropriate tick mark into a triangle for "Earth normal".

You could continue the theme, then back into the hydro graph, by placing tick marks (unmarked) inside the ring, and turning the "Earth normal" setting into a triangle. If you do this with each of the three physical stats, it becomes very consistent.

The only other issue with the size scale is that it tricks the brain into thinking it has something to do with the hydro graph, because it has a line that crosses there, similar to the line delineating the actual percentage. If you turn it into a tape gauge, you could basically forgo the horizontal line, and eliminate that tiny bit of confusion.

On to the tougher portions....

I don't think Allegiance is going to work (in OTU) with a symbol, as I don't think they all have one, do they? It also makes the concept near impossible to port to ATUs, unless the author comes up with a sufficiently distinct symbol for every polity. (MTU has something like 15 polities in just one sector!) The location also implies that data is of utmost importance (same level of importance as the starport type) - if you want to convey that, fine, but in OTU I'm not sure it is that important to players. Unfortunately, I don't have a suggestion as to which data might be more appropriate there.

The dots on the ring for the starport aren't ... maybe obvious enough. *scratches head* Perhaps halving the circle, and making the upper part a light gray for an upport, and the lower half gray for a downport? If you used colors, I would say to make the inside of the circle blue (or black) for an upport, and brown for a downport, and a half-and-half for both.

The population level is a bugger.... This is because the scale should actually be logarithmic. This is hard to convey in a dial, and only slightly easier in a tape gauge. If you keep it to the outside of the "dial", then I would work out how to make it logarithmic: tens should be closer to hundreds than hundreds is to thousands, and hundreds is closer to thousands than thousands is to ten thousands,etc. I think it's doable, but it might be a bear to initially get the spacing right. Reduce the size of the labels and have tick marks (to make the logarithmic scale evident), and turn the tick mark for "Earth normal" into a triangle - use "coloration" to show the value the same way you do with atmo.

I would not put the TL and LL on the outside of the ring. Add two vertical tape gauges. I wouldn't use symbols for this (or trade codes), as symbols really need (since you're wanting this to be quick to read) to only have up to about 4 possible values before they become problematic. ("What is that one again? That's a factory? Really? OK. What's the other one? Right...." The same problem with just plopping the codes down - you have to look them up.)

I like the "warning" lights, though there isn't necessarily any data for that in the Classic UWP.

The only bit you forgot to include (which is *mighty* important for players) is Travel Restrictions: Amber and Red Zones. Perhaps it could be added in the right side vertical bar (opposite the gas giants and bases codes).

*takes off my engineering hat*
I hope that logorhea helps. (If I had the time to play with some graphics, some of the ideas would be more easily conveyed.) It's a really interesting idea (I could see characters encountering it in starports, or as a quicky graphic in their Michelin sector book).

 

[BillDowns]

Generally, I rather like it. However, the only benefit I can see is in an Application of some sort, or perhaps on 3x5 or playing cards, backed up by text.

More specific thoughts: I would not use a circular graph - it's simply too hard to read for that many characteristics. I suggest simple bar graphs instead - one for each characteristic in the same order as the UPP with the value underneath.

I would not use those specific "warning lights", but would for Trade Classifications & Travel Zones.

For Highport/Lowport, simply put an appropriately directed triangle above or below the Star Port.

Allegiance icons have already been addressed by someone. I echo their concerns.

And color would be a definite plus.

 

[ravells]

Fritz! (And everyone else, but especially Fritz!) That's brilliant, thank you! I really, really appreciate the time and thought you put into this answer. It is gold dust to me.

You've talked about and explained a number of the questions which I was puzzling over in the process. E.g why use circular gauges for some data and linear for other data?

The log scale on the pop values was a bugger, I tried a number of visual solutions which all proved to be unworkable but the one that worked the best, I found was to use descriptors like hundreds and millions so the person reading it would instinctively know it was a log scale without having to be told it.

I am so with you about the Earth Normal triangle drawing the eye more than the indicator and suggesting that it is the measurement indicator rather than the 'fill line'. I was kind of hoping that this would become obvious if people looked at more than one meter.

I went back to the drawing board and asked myself what these things would be used for, and came to the conclusion that it would be cool to have two levels of detail. One for sub-sector hex maps and another for player handouts. The first gives as much information as I could squeeze into a hex-map which players would need. Also I wanted to work it into the existing Traveller syntax and vocab rather than using new symbols for everything which people would find confusing.

Going through this exercise made me appreciate how elegant the Traveller Map is from a design point of view. The symbols retain their coherence down to a very small size allowing the user to look at a large area.

So the extra information provided in my enhanced sub-sector map is:

1. Is the outside environment hazardous? (Will I need a vacc suit?)
2. What are the approximate law, pop and tech levels? (memory tools: the WHITE heat of technology (Tech) / The BLACK cap a judge wears for a death sentence (Law) / A planet with a huge number of gray people (Pop).
3. What is the approximate size of the planet? I tried so hard to do this visually by varying the size of the planet diameter itself but this resulted in the larger planets interfering with legibility of the symbols around them.
4. What is the government type? Here I found 3 letter call signs made the gov type very easy to remember. I only had to read the Gov types once or twice and the 3 letter call signs brought them to mind immediately.

I think the map is still legible, but I would be grateful for comments.

So that the Enhanced Sub-sector map.


-----------------

The Second way of presenting the data (for handouts or for scenarios) is to pack as much data as possible to supplement each of the UPP numbers and giving each number its own graphic. The is really no need to be so economical with space with presenting this data. So the UPP number acts a summary of All the information in its related graphic. I've only just started this but I think there will need to be data which is not included in the UPP as well, (how many planets in the system? How many Stars? etc). It also needs to look attractive, so I'm thinking that something like an instrument panel look will catch the eye.

Fritz, I would really welcome your continued feedback!

 

[Whipsnade]

Let me echo Fritz here. While the graphic you shared is impressive, there's far too much information crammed into it. Even when/if color is added, I still believe you're asking too much from a single graphic.

Fritz mentioned instrument panels as part of his examples. I believe that approach would prove helpful. An instrument cluster displaying a system's physical attributes with another handling the social conditions would help divvy up the information load. Perhaps a trefoil design of sorts? The upper left has tape gauges showing size, atmo, and hydro with Earth normal carets and T-prime ranges marked while the upper right has tape gauges for pop, gov, and law. Lower center displays stellar data, port, trade classes, and other information.

Of course, this whole exercise springs from a misconception nearly as old as the game itself. People too often forget that the UPP is a metagame construct and not an in-game Michelin guide. The UPP is only meant as a bit of shorthand for GMs and, far less often, for players. Player-characters should have no conception of the UPP and the IISS most certainly doesn't publish lists of UPPs.

BytePro's comment about MgT using the LL code as a dice mechanic neatly illustrates this long held misconception. CT used the LL code primarily as a dice mechanic too, you rolled against it to determine whether the PCs had any contact with the "cops" and that use occurred far more often than determining what sort of weapons the PCs could be toting around.

Because creating scads of UPPs is far easier than creating the world write-ups GMs were supposed the create from the UPPs, the UPP crowded everything else out and the tail has been wagging the dog for over thirty years.

Creating a graphic which displays the UPP is nice and you're graphic is especially nice, but such graphics are still metagame constructs because the UPP itself is a metagame construct.

 

[ravells]

I came to the same conclusion about too much information on one graphic, Whip, hence the new graphic.

Interesting thought about UPPs intended as being metagame constructs only which had not really occurred to me, but yes, of course - thinking about it they must be.

But then, thinking about it a little more, this does not mean that there can't be a Michelin guide to the stars (one would think that a guide like that would almost be inevitable) - Using a UPP might be a great shorthand adopted in such a guide. Of course the information might be hopelessly out of date (again an near inevitability) but that just adds to the fun!

 

[BytePro]

People too often forget that the UPP is a metagame construct and not an in-game Michelin guide.

Actually, I've used the UPP (UWP)as ingame - don't recall whether the rules stated they were only metagame, or not. In the RW, stars and such are codified, so it actually seems natural.

Someone recently posted about character UPPs being ingame - which I never thought of and am un-inclined to adopt - but they stated it as if it was in the rules, and at any rate their assumption.

Ravells, thanks for sharing more art...

The subsector stuff is actually harder to read, IMO - the cryptic government codes would work just as well (better) if they were just numbers or letters - you have a legend and they are in a fixed position. The sticks with balls look like they mean something unrelated (orbiting moons, stations, etc) and overlapping is a bit confusing. The hazard symbol would be clearer in its own space...

The world details look cool - can we see bigger!