Pixie reference

[rancke]

In my Pixie fact file, I find the following entry:

There is scheduled passenger liner service from Pixie to Kinorb in 1120. [PM:35]​

The bit in brackets indicates that I found this information on page 35 of the book 'PM'.

Embarrasingly enough, though, I can't figure out which book I refer to as 'PM'. The date seems to indicate that it's a GT book, but I can't find one with the initials 'PM'. I've tried assuming that one of the two letters is a mistype, but that didn't help any (It's not Star Mercs).

Can anyone tell me where the reference is from?


Hans

 

[McPerth]

I have not my books with me just now, but usually when I read PM in Traveller it's refered to MT; player Manual (also coherent with the date 1120, that is teh date for the SM map published with it).

In any case, the reference doesn't seem to come from the Player Manual, unless on a sidebar.

 

[Hemdian]

Confirmed: It is the MT Player's Manual. Page 35 has a block text section about trade routes and feeder lines. The last paragraph reads:

A traveller leaving Menorb for Heya would first catch a tramp freighter for Pixie and transfer to a scheduled liner for Kinorb. Once at Kinorb, he would wait for the first available ship to Heya. Ships along the trade routes are scheduled and predictable; ships travelling to worlds off the main routes are unscheduled and unpredictable.

 

[rancke]

Confirmed: It is the MT Player's Manual. Page 35 has a block text section about trade routes and feeder lines.

Thanks a lot. I appreciate the help. It's absolute twaddle[*] and I intend to ignore it, but I like to know where I can find my references.

[*] There is quite possibly a jump-4 liner jumping back and forth between Menorb and Kinorb[**], but if not, a traveler would take a sheduled liner from Menorb to Boughene and switch to a sheduled liner from Boughene to Kinorb.

[**] Though possibly not; I haven't checked the amount of passenger traffic between the two.​

​

Hans

 

[aramis]

In my Pixie fact file, I find the following entry:

There is scheduled passenger liner service from Pixie to Kinorb in 1120. [PM:35]​

The bit in brackets indicates that I found this information on page 35 of the book 'PM'.

Embarrasingly enough, though, I can't figure out which book I refer to as 'PM'. The date seems to indicate that it's a GT book, but I can't find one with the initials 'PM'. I've tried assuming that one of the two letters is a mistype, but that didn't help any (It's not Star Mercs).

Can anyone tell me where the reference is from?


Hans

Probably MegaTraveller Player's Manual. ISTR looking that up for you several years back.

 

[rancke]

Probably MegaTraveller Player's Manual. ISTR looking that up for you several years back.

Quite possible. My memory is not always all I'd like it to be.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Quite possible. My memory is not always all I'd like it to be.


Hans

It's exactly how I phrase MT references when the MT context is self-evident.

 

[atpollard]

For the record, page 35 of the MegaTraveller Player's Manual, contains:

TRADE ROUTES AND FEEDER LINES
At first glance, starships seem to just follow straight lines
from origin to destination. The reality is quite different.
There is a kind of terrain in interstellar space; clusters of
worlds and regions of empty space direct ships into distinct
channels.
The Imperium is crisscrossed with trade routes which
jump between major worlds, connecting vital suppliers with
essential markets, important government worlds with high
population worlds, and strategic resources with exploiting
industry. Trade routes are a natural outgrowth of economic
and market pressures. When a market is no longer profitable,
the trade routes bypass it.
The trade routes are the territory of the lmperium's
largest trading companies. They maintain fleets of commercial
transports and merchants who serve these
tradeworlds, and they reap large profits in doing so.
But the trade routes directly serve fewer than a tenth
of the worlds of the Imperium. The other 90 percent of the
Imperium's worlds are served by feeder lines, tramp
freighters, and free traders. These smaller companies and
unscheduled ships carry passengers and cargo between
worlds off the main trade mutes.
A traveller leaving Menorb for Heya would first catch
a tramp freighter for Pixie and transfer to a scheduled liner
for Kinorb. Once at Kinorb, he would wait for the first
available ship to Heya. Ships along the trade routes ere
scheduled and predictable; ships travelling to worlds off
the main routes are unscheduled and unpredictable.

Note: "A traveller leaving Menorb for Heya would first catch
a tramp freighter for Pixie and transfer to a scheduled liner
for Kinorb."

 

[rancke]

Note: "A traveller leaving Menorb for Heya would first catch a tramp freighter for Pixie and transfer to a scheduled liner
for Kinorb."

No need to repeat; I read Hemdian's quote of the same sentence. This is the sentence I characterize as absolute twaddle.

a) Tramp freighters going from Menorb to to Pixie would be exceedingly rare because Pixie doesn't generate enough trade to buy or sell anything much (The rules say so; trade and passengers for visiting free traders is based on the 90 belters, completely ignoring the shipyard workers and the navy base personnel). The trade tables provide an average of 1½ middle and 1 low passenger and ½ a major and ½ a minor lot of cargo, and I for one wonder how a population of 90 can generate that much traffic. No one is going to Pixie unless they have a cargo they think they can sell (to those 90 people) for enough to cover a second, almost empty, jump away again.

b) A regular passenger service between Pixie and Kinorb won't exist, because Pixie itself doesn't generate enough passenger traffic to support as much as a single 200T jump-3 vessel visiting regularily (Unless, of course, by 'regular' you mean once a year), and there is not going to be any through traffic from Boughene; a detour through Pixie is pointless and costs more than jumping directly from Boughene to Kinorb.

c) There will be regular passenger liners between Menorb and Boughene. Menorb has the population (3 billion) to generate a good many passengers and although Boughene won't generate much traffic in its own right (only 600,000 people), it is a minor traffic hub. All traffic between Menorb and the Kinorb Cluster, for example, will go though Boughene. Admittedly, passengers going rimwards frrom Menorb MAY bypass Boughene completely and jump directly to Feri, but even if this meant no regular passenger service between Menorb and Boughene, you'd still get far more free traders going to Boughene than to Pixie. Far far more.

d) Any traffic from Boughene to Kinorb will jump directly from Boughene to Kinorb without going through Pixie. It's cheaper AND faster.


Hans

 

[atpollard]

Heh.
Sorry, I missed that it had already been quoted ... could have saved myself the OCR time by just reading a little better.

Trading with the 'belters' while ignoring the 'shipyard' and 'navy base' is just plain funny. Poor miners, all that ore and nobody to buy it. And 'liberty' on Pixie must really be hard on morale.

The more I read about OTU statements like that, the happier I am that I liked generating my own subsector to adventure in. I missed out on a lot of nonsense.

 

[rancke]

Trading with the 'belters' while ignoring the 'shipyard' and 'navy base' is just plain funny.

Assuming that the needs of the shipyard workers are met by General Products ships and the needs of the navy personnel is met by Navy transports, I suppose it can be justified. I'd still expect some trade in leisure goods...

Poor miners, all that ore and nobody to buy it. And 'liberty' on Pixie must really be hard on morale.

How much ore does 90 belters produce? If it's unusually much, I'd expect more belters to show up and horn in. In any case, BtC states that they have only made minor strikes yet.

The more I read about OTU statements like that, the happier I am that I liked generating my own subsector to adventure in. I missed out on a lot of nonsense.

The problem with the OTU is those setting details that were randomly generated without someone vetting the results. I'm morally certain (i.e. have no evidence at all ) that the X-boat routes were generated by the table in Book 3 that was supposed to establish regular shipping lines, and that one was based solely on starport class. Which means that Pixie with its 90 people had a better chance of getting a connection than Menorb with its 3 billion people had.

(Actually, the real problem with the OTU is the extreme reluctance TPTB has had to fix the sort of silliness that Pixie is a poster world for. Mistakes are unavoidable and forgivable; refusal to fix mistakes is not.)


Hans

 

[atpollard]

Assuming that the needs of the shipyard workers are met by General Products ships and the needs of the navy personnel is met by Navy transports, I suppose it can be justified. I'd still expect some trade in leisure goods...

I agree, but it is just barely justifiable ... I can hear it creaking as it strains credibility. Imagine a proposed policy to supply a US base in Europe by shipping goods from the continental United States using only USAF transport planes with no interaction between base personnel and the local economy. Add in a Chinese operated shipyard near the base that also operates independently of either the base or the local economy and plausibility falls like a house of cards. [100% IMO]

How much ore does 90 belters produce? If it's unusually much, I'd expect more belters to show up and horn in. In any case, BtC states that they have only made minor strikes yet.

IIRC another world (or perhaps the same world) has a tiny population operating a class A starport at near imperial maximum TL ... so I would never underestimate their GDP output.

(Actually, the real problem with the OTU is the extreme reluctance TPTB has had to fix the sort of silliness that Pixie is a poster world for.)

QFT.

 

[Greylond]

I agree, but it is just barely justifiable ... I can hear it creaking as it strains credibility. Imagine a proposed policy to supply a US base in Europe by shipping goods from the continental United States using only USAF transport planes with no interaction between base personnel and the local economy. Add in a Chinese operated shipyard near the base that also operates independently of either the base or the local economy and plausibility falls like a house of cards. [100% IMO]

How about Cuba with Gitmo and the Soviet Repair facilities in the 60's & 70's? ...

 

[rancke]

How about Cuba with Gitmo and the Soviet Repair facilities in the 60's & 70's? ...

You mean that island with a population of 11 million with a strong adversarial relationship to the US? Not a good analogy, if you ask me. If AT had specified a shipyard and a naval base on Bear Island (population 9), the analogy would be sounder.


Hans

 

[Greylond]

Yea, I'm familiar with the population of Cuba, and Bear Island actually, but atpollard did say "Europe" which last time I checked had a larger population than Bear Island(and Cuba)...

 

[McPerth]

You mean that island with a population of 11 million with a strong adversarial relationship to the US? Not a good analogy, if you ask me. If AT had specified a shipyard and a naval base on Bear Island (population 9), the analogy would be sounder.


Hans

And that is how I understand the Naval Base at Pixie.

Pixie is quite near two dangerous borders (vargr and Zhodani), and so a bse there makes sense to me. It is a nearly uninhabited small world where seccurity will be a lesser problem.

As I envision it, Pixie's main facility is the base itself, even being (except in case of crisis) a semi-active one, quite larger than what its personnel may operate, being mostly maintenance personnel and short time assignments (so not counted on the system census), but able to be fully operated in time of crisis, when people assigned to it allows it to function as a relatively major base.

The analogy I've always thought for it would be a fort as represented in Westerns. A small garrison with facilities to allow to be a rally point for troops operating in the zone, and used also to serve the civilians passing by the zone, with just some civilians using it aslo as home (in this case probably belters).

 

[Cryton]

No need to repeat; I read Hemdian's quote of the same sentence. This is the sentence I characterize as absolute twaddle.

a) Tramp freighters going from Menorb to to Pixie would be exceedingly rare because Pixie doesn't generate enough trade to buy or sell anything much (The rules say so; trade and passengers for visiting free traders is based on the 90 belters, completely ignoring the shipyard workers and the navy base personnel). The trade tables provide an average of 1½ middle and 1 low passenger and ½ a major and ½ a minor lot of cargo, and I for one wonder how a population of 90 can generate that much traffic. No one is going to Pixie unless they have a cargo they think they can sell (to those 90 people) for enough to cover a second, almost empty, jump away again.

b) A regular passenger service between Pixie and Kinorb won't exist, because Pixie itself doesn't generate enough passenger traffic to support as much as a single 200T jump-3 vessel visiting regularily (Unless, of course, by 'regular' you mean once a year), and there is not going to be any through traffic from Boughene; a detour through Pixie is pointless and costs more than jumping directly from Boughene to Kinorb.

c) There will be regular passenger liners between Menorb and Boughene. Menorb has the population (3 billion) to generate a good many passengers and although Boughene won't generate much traffic in its own right (only 600,000 people), it is a minor traffic hub. All traffic between Menorb and the Kinorb Cluster, for example, will go though Boughene. Admittedly, passengers going rimwards frrom Menorb MAY bypass Boughene completely and jump directly to Feri, but even if this meant no regular passenger service between Menorb and Boughene, you'd still get far more free traders going to Boughene than to Pixie. Far far more.

d) Any traffic from Boughene to Kinorb will jump directly from Boughene to Kinorb without going through Pixie. It's cheaper AND faster.


Hans

ROFL!!!

I am in total agreement with you Hans, and in this case, I think that the author of the sidebar was simply using world names in an example situation to illustrate a point without checking first to see if it was actually a possibility with the worlds in question.

If anything, one would have a better chance of hitching a ride on a passing scout ship than waiting for a liner to pixie!

 

[aramis]

And that is how I understand the Naval Base at Pixie.

Pixie is quite near two dangerous borders (vargr and Zhodani), and so a bse there makes sense to me. It is a nearly uninhabited small world where seccurity will be a lesser problem.

As I envision it, Pixie's main facility is the base itself, even being (except in case of crisis) a semi-active one, quite larger than what its personnel may operate, being mostly maintenance personnel and short time assignments (so not counted on the system census), but able to be fully operated in time of crisis, when people assigned to it allows it to function as a relatively major base.

The analogy I've always thought for it would be a fort as represented in Westerns. A small garrison with facilities to allow to be a rally point for troops operating in the zone, and used also to serve the civilians passing by the zone, with just some civilians using it aslo as home (in this case probably belters).

Pixie makes me think NAS Adak or AFS Shemya. Native population 0. Base pop a hundred to a thousand. Civil contractors used to ferry people to/from. Both have been used as civil divert fields on occasion. (One civil flight out of Dutch got diverted to Adak just prior to closing of NAS Adak... the passengers were held in the "terminal" by SP's for 14 hours overnight, waiting for Adak weather to clear sufficiently for them to leave... they complained about the reservists being allowed BOQ overnight, while civilians had to stay in the terminal.

Or Umiat FSS. A two person airport with a maintenance hanger, fuel, and "tower" but no permanent population. A relatively routine stopover point for many years for the Fairbanks to Barrow inspection runs. Open to civilian traffic...

 

[McPerth]

Pixie makes me think NAS Adak or AFS Shemya. Native population 0. Base pop a hundred to a thousand. Civil contractors used to ferry people to/from. Both have been used as civil divert fields on occasion. (One civil flight out of Dutch got diverted to Adak just prior to closing of NAS Adak... the passengers were held in the "terminal" by SP's for 14 hours overnight, waiting for Adak weather to clear sufficiently for them to leave... they complained about the reservists being allowed BOQ overnight, while civilians had to stay in the terminal.

Or Umiat FSS. A two person airport with a maintenance hanger, fuel, and "tower" but no permanent population. A relatively routine stopover point for many years for the Fairbanks to Barrow inspection runs. Open to civilian traffic...

As I don't know any of those bases, I trust you on this, but as I undersand, the concept stands the same, even while changing the example.

 

[Greylond]

Yea, when Adak was open as a base(we had more than just the NAS there) you could only get onto the island with 30 days advanced notice and a clearance, even if you were military.

And Aramis, it wasn't SPs, it was either the NAS Security Department or more likely marines from the Independent Marine Company assigned to pull base security there.

USN Shore Patrol is different from Base Defense and the Security Department(Base Law Enforcement) personell.


EDIT: Also, there was a Civilian Contractor camp that did major construction projects because the Seabees are prohibited from doing those on US soil. Adak was supplied by a mix of Civilian and Military sources. There were C-141s that made the weekly "Milk Run" and brought in perishables(many times the on island stores ran out of milk by Tuesday) and Reeves Aleutian Airways that made regular flights(most of the time daily) moving people back and forth. There was also a barge that came from Seattle, roughly once per month, that had major shipments on it. Sometimes we'd see a KC-10