Pirate Ships Size

[Bob Weaver]

I have seen many a discussion on these boards of the operation of pirates, in canon and non-canon settings. Mostly the discussion centers on what the pirates do. My question is, what are they flying? Do pirates in YTU operate 600-800 ton corsairs and attack PC ships, or do they fly 10-20 Ktn modified transports and attack the huge bulk carriers that move the majority of the goods between planets? The current thread here in "The Fleet" about battle riders vs. battleships mentions using riders in anti-piracy patrols. This rather assumes that pirates can operate large vessels. Otherwise, a spinal-armed cruiser as pirate hunter is a terrible mis-allocation of naval assets. This in turn assumes that pirates in these big ships go after large cargo ships. (why have them else?) If so, why would they bother with tiny Type A Free Traders? Further, I don't recall anything in canon about pirates operating large vessels.
So what am I missing? I'm not advocating one 'size' or the other, I'm just curious about what others have done in their games.

Best Regards,

Bob Weaver

 

[c_osborne]

Pirates in my campaign tend not to have the resources for large ships. So they run in the 200-400 ton range. Occasionally a 600 ton. But they run in packs, so bigger ships for the pirate hunters actually does make some sense.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Chad Osborne:
Pirates in my campaign tend not to have the resources for large ships. So they run in the 200-400 ton range. Occasionally a 600 ton. But they run in packs, so bigger ships for the pirate hunters actually does make some sense.

Same here - pirates may be found in ships ranging up to about a 1000dtons with the odd rare 5000dton merchant converted to piracy, but nothing in the 10kdton range or better, and they rarely operate alone.

In the Colonial BatRon thread I didn't suggest that battle riders are used for anti-piracy patrols - quite the opposite actually. Planetary navies with jump-capable cruiser squadrons would engage in anti-piracy operations in neighboring systems in order to protect their own trade routes while the battle riders would act as system defense boats subject to Imperial call-up as units of the subsector fleet.

 

[Bob Weaver]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
In the Colonial BatRon thread I didn't suggest that battle riders are used for anti-piracy patrols - quite the opposite actually. Planetary navies with jump-capable cruiser squadrons would engage in anti-piracy operations in neighboring systems in order to protect their own trade routes while the battle riders would act as system defense boats subject to Imperial call-up as units of the subsector fleet. [/QB]

Ah, I misunderstood you. Thanks for clarifying.

Best,

Bob

 

[Zob10701]

Pirates, huh?

I was a pirate for a number of years in the Spinward Marches—got up to number one on the most wanted list in 1118 with a 1MCr reward for my ass... hee! I used a 600-ton Broadsword-class merc cruiser. Plus, I operated alone.

But enough about me.

We've dealt with pirates from our very first adventure. In 1103, one week out of Regina in a Sulieman-class, pirates tried to fool us into thinking they were a legitimate scout tender and wanted to board and "inspect" us in the Whanga system. We killed them all when they tried to get through the airlock. The pirate leaders were in battledress in the front, but were wearing the suits helmetless (so to much better shout "Avast thar" and "Arrrrr" through the scoutship corridors). We popped both of them in the head as they came through and the others, not knowing what happened, just kept coming!

In 1109, the pirate queen The Nightshade hijacked the liner King Richard when we were aboard. Bitch took all our cash. We caught up with her on Dra'k'ne Station in 1111, infiltrated and destroyed the pirate asteroid and killed her stank ass.

The Dra'k'ne pirates had a pretty big ship at their disposal at one time, though. When we were trying to get in good with The Nightshade, (the better to kill her later) we helped her and her pirates capture the Imperial Naval Base at Paya/Aramis and a 30,000 ton Gionetti-class light cruiser, I.N.S. Anshell.

So I guess it depends. Big, small, alone or in groups... it's all up to you.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Under 1kt, I'd say, normally. Anything bigger is hard to hide & maintain.

 

[Golan2072]

Depends on milieu and campaign, but usually lower than 1,000 dtons. In most cases they'll be using illegally-modified merchant craft, though in the Hard Times and beyond they're sometimes able to lay their hands on a relic military ship or two (usually small, the Great/Final War destroyed most big naval craft).

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Bob Weaver:
Thanks for clarifying.

Windex works wonders!

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
Under 1kt, I'd say, normally. Anything bigger is hard to hide & maintain.

And crew - too many engineers needed on big ships for pirates to reliably recruit.

 

[Zob10701]

All this talk about pirates made me go looking for the original Judges Guild Dra'k'ne Station adventure.

I'd forgotten that the station was defended by giant metal penises:

 

[mike wightman]

Most of the pirate ships IMTU are converted merchantmen, so 200 to 600 ton is the norm.

The corsair is built specifically for "letter of marque" pirates, as explained in this thread.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Concur with the above posters Employee 2-4601, and others.

Milieu of play dictates, as well as what you can arm and keep aloft. Some planetary Navies have been used as pirates out in Gateway (the Raidermarch of Glimmerdrift Sector comes to mind.)

MT/ Rebellion era: Hard Times, Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora, Assignment Vigilante gave us examples of deserters from Lucan & Dulinor's Navies with up to a 5kton Escort Destroyer holding a world hostage and a port. IIRC its jump dribve was kaput tho.

1kton would top off the really "big Pirates", and the wolf-pack tactical mentality holds up.
(Again, Assignment Vigilante as an example:
former Marine Colonel Sir Cymon Milligan's band at Lekahana & Sligo/ Promise subsector 1128 had

3x 1kton Ramrod-class Solomani Missile boats
2x 600dton Jump tugs
2x 200dton armed Far Traders
1x 440dton Corsair.

(Hard Times)
Indro the Lightless' band in Pasdaruu at Campobello at the battle of Shareduu (early 1128)had:

1x 100dton Seeker-class
4x 440dton Corsairs
1x armed 200dton STL spacecraft
2x 1kton Xboat tenders
4x 20dton FTRs
1x armed 200dton Free Trader
5x armed 200dton Far Traders

The most dangerous bands of this era were the bands like Milligan's-they had former military vessels, armored, and discipline and skill to use them.

This doesn't even touch upon the Vargr raiders from the Extants, and their vessel sizes! (See notes about planetary navies as pirates above).

Its YTU, you decide.

 

[Lenadh]

Generally I would say 400-800 dton range. Some larger ships (such as hijacked xboat tenders). Really large (3,000 dton and up) are generally a liability, as they tend to draw naval attention.

One interesting exception to this would be a 20-50 Kdton vessel that operates as a base ship for a pirate fleet/group. It never actually enters combat, but acts as a chop shop, fence, and supply ship for small raiders. An operation like this, though it would take a bit to set up, would be a royal pain to hunt down.

In some ways one of the AHL cargo conversions would be the best for this. (if only for the deckplans). Can hold a lot of cargo, and would make a good support ship. Even has 400dton docking locks for carrying those corsairs.

 

[Liam Devlin]

I concur. Lenadh.

I've used a derelict huge ship before for the Pirate's base in an empty space 'hex' for just that purpose. Part of docking fees for the bands using the place was dropping off extra fuel as part of their port fees/ tithe.

Then I learned about Brown Dwarfs, and put one in the same hex, with some ice capped (Hyd 1-4)small planets (Sz 1-4) (nothing habitable of course)about it to keep the "mothership" supplied. Pirate captive slave labor, of course!

You can also with 3-4 lost Xboat tenders make a fine "junk spaceport"

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
I concur. Lenadh.

I've used a derelict huge ship before for the Pirate's base in an empty space 'hex' for just that purpose. Part of docking fees for the bands using the place was dropping off extra fuel as part of their port fees/ tithe.

Then I learned about Brown Dwarfs, and put one in the same hex, with some ice capped (Hyd 1-4)small planets (Sz 1-4) (nothing habitable of course)about it to keep the "mothership" supplied. Pirate captive slave labor, of course!

You can also with 3-4 lost Xboat tenders make a fine "junk spaceport"

Now there's a background, environment, and plot hook all in one. Thanks!

 

[Uncle Bob]

Today, RW pirates tend to operate in open boats when the targets are passing through "choke points". Similar to the way the original Carribean "boucanieres" used small boats to capture Spanish vessels.

In the great age of blue-water piracy, the early eighteenth century, most pirate ships were converted merchantmen, frequently small but agile sloops and schooners. The excetions were Teach's (Blackbeard) Queen Anne's Revenge and Black Bart Robert's Royal Fortune. The Royal Fortune was a captured French warship, probably a Frigate. Queen Anne's Revenge was a 300 ton armed merchantman being used as a slaver when Teach captured it.

IMTU, pirates use converted ships of 200-1000 dtons, usually with armed small craft, boats, cutters, etc. Normaly the ship hangs back and lets the boats go in with their advantage in maneuvering. Even a small boat can carry enough pirates to board merchant ships under 1000 dtons. The main pirate ship stays well back, protecting the investment, at least until the victim has been boarded.

 

[parmasson]

Hmmm gets me thinking. How about an attack ship/transport system. Smaller 400 ton gunboat, large, slow innocent freighter to transport to loot? The transport is the same make as the base so easy way to acquire parts on the grey market without anyone raising an eyeball.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by robject:
Now there's a background, environment, and plot hook all in one. Thanks!

Yer welcome sah!

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Today, RW pirates tend to operate in open boats when the targets are passing through "choke points". Similar to the way the original Carribean "boucanieres" used small boats to capture Spanish vessels.

In the great age of blue-water piracy, the early eighteenth century, most pirate ships were converted merchantmen, frequently small but agile sloops and schooners. The excetions were Teach's (Blackbeard) Queen Anne's Revenge and Black Bart Robert's Royal Fortune. The Royal Fortune was a captured French warship, probably a Frigate. Queen Anne's Revenge was a 300 ton armed merchantman being used as a slaver when Teach captured it.

IMTU, pirates use converted ships of 200-1000 dtons, usually with armed small craft, boats, cutters, etc. Normaly the ship hangs back and lets the boats go in with their advantage in maneuvering. Even a small boat can carry enough pirates to board merchant ships under 1000 dtons. The main pirate ship stays well back, protecting the investment, at least until the victim has been boarded.

Those are all sound historical examples Uncle Bob! Thank ye! For all the Holly-weird glamorizing fo ship-to-ship battling, history shows 2/3's of all pirate attacks were ashore.

In the Traveller verse, Uncle B's analogy of the lots of small craft & the mothership works just as well. "Choke points" in space (for you new GM's/ Refs out there) are those places within a system that a slow moving merchant ship must pass before entering safe jump diameter from the main world, places where if there's few to little local SDB patrolling one could use interstellar law against the poor merchanter and holler SOS/ Signal GK, and ambush the quarry as it approaches to lend assistance (the entire plot of the classic adventure Beowulf Down!).

The Lagrange points of a planet are also dandy spots to hang about in the "space clutter" and watch for starships on passive sensors, then swoop down after them.

Catching the merchant ship in a gas gaintless system before he can make planet, low on fuel coming in from jump is another form of "choke point".

Hiding in the rings of a gas giant and keeping the frugal types from reaching the gas giant is another example of the choke point.

Trouble is, the poor merchie has to get his goods to market, and usually has a timetable to make, so he often takes the nearest gas giant to the main world, or in a balkanized system the nearest one between the two inhabited worlds within it.

Knowing where to lay in ambush is half the trick for pirates. Knowing the astrographical data of a particular vulnerable system of a lucrative trade route is worth the knowing, and saves many a pirate Captain from an antsy crew of cutthroats he/she has from wondering where the next ship is coming from, and when. Idle hands, and all that

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
Hmmm gets me thinking. How about an attack ship/transport system. Smaller 400 ton gunboat, large, slow innocent freighter to transport to loot? The transport is the same make as the base so easy way to acquire parts on the grey market without anyone raising an eyeball.

Extremely possible Kurega Gikur! One Nishemani(P)-class corsair, and one stripped out Purcell-class Xboat tender (capable of hauling 600dtons of cargo in the jump field), and voila' you can make even a 600dton M-class liner vanish off to a chop-shop!

IIRC, the ole P-class had a cargo bay big enough to haul off a 100dton S-class (Scout courier or Seeker). Looking at the two MT examples of my previous post, it would not be hard in the Rebellion HT environment (or any other frontier/ rough region of space) for those slower armed merchants to look very innocent and sell off the swag to unsuspecting/ or their client's worlds in the grey trade.

Works for me! Good ideas!

 

[Lenadh]

Another vicious idea for a pirate fleet would be say 5 Type S scout/couriers, 2 corsairs, and a 800-1200 ton "heavy support" ship. (Kinunir, Fer de Lance, Broadsword, etc)

This group goes out raiding as typical, and drops of its loot at a base as has been mentioned above. Eventually, the raiders will cause enough pain that the local navies will try and find where the pirate base is. This is not all that difficult to do, all things considered.

The local navies/police get up a nice force suitable to smash a band like this. Some DE's, destroyers, light carriers, maybe even a light cruiser, plus the usual scouts, Gazelles, etc, and jump to the pirate base.

Imagine the surprise when they find the pirate base is a fully operational CJ-15 Rift Cruiser!

***SPLAT***

The Pirates, now with likely some new ships, then move to a new sector, and begin anew. With good tactics, this can become a roving band that operates on a rotating sector basis

Note that this only works in a setting similar to the Hard Times, TNE, or similar disaster-ridden timeline (to get the CJ-15), but can be done at smaller levels with a mutinous Gionetti CL or such.

We did this stunt once, Rebellion Era. The Vargr were going nuts trying to find out the secret. Stay moving, and let the Chaos reign.

PS: Technically we were not pirates, as we were operating under a letter of marque from the Daryen Confederation, but whether for privateers or pirates, the tactic works equally well.