Pensions...Retire on 4,000Cr. a year?

[Dagrill]

Does the retirement pay rates make any sense to any of you ?

I am toying with a per month rate, or ruling that the imperial credit is worth a lot more in planetary monopoly money so that 4,000 could let a retired non-Traveller live in ordinary lodging and food.

The average retired non-Traveller can't live at anything more than subsistanance level on his 5 term pension...maybe he has a van down by the river?

Hi,

I'm sort of retired (living on savings, which the interest rates have declined dramatically on over the last 3 years) and you don't need that much to live on once the mortgage is paid off and it's just the two of you.

My main source of expenditure other than food and power is books

Kind Regards

David

 

[ArcaneFlash]

While I understand the pension issue.

The question comes to mind is How does someone manage several Ship shares worth millions of MCr's, cash and other benefits then complain about retirement?

Just playing devil's advocate.

While I understand each is a separate thing, I agree with retire on 50% pay after 20 years, with a +2.5% per year afterwards with inflation bonus.

 

[rancke]

The question comes to mind is How does someone manage several Ship shares worth millions of MCr's, cash and other benefits then complain about retirement?

Granted that having fun gaming is more important than having a plausible setting, some of us believe that having a plausible setting improves gaming fun. So we like to have BOTH a fun game and a plausible setting.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

Granted that having fun gaming is more important than having a plausible setting, some of us believe that having a plausible setting improves gaming fun. So we like to have BOTH a fun game and a plausible setting.
Hans

"plausible setting":devil: Is this where I get to rib you about the Tigress again?

 

[rancke]

"plausible setting":devil: Is this where I get to rib you about the Tigress again?

Nothing implausible about the Tigress. The bigger a battleship, the more powerful, obviously. That really ought to go without saying. Now, if you were to being babbling about dinky little cruisers being just as good a big beefy dreadnaughts, THAT would be implausible!


Hans

 

[Vladika]

Nothing implausible about the Tigress. The bigger a battleship, the more powerful, obviously. That really ought to go without saying. Now, if you were to being babbling about dinky little cruisers being just as good a big beefy dreadnaughts, THAT would be implausible!
Hans

 

[leo knight]

I'm glad someone mentioned inflation. The original rules were published in 1977. IIRC, the rules assumed 1CR was equivalent to a US dollar of the time. Using the official CPI inflation calculator, $4,000 in 1977 would equal $15,440 now. This is $1286 a month. Not too shabby.

 

[rancke]

Let's look at what Cr4000/year buys you¹. Deduct 10% for incidental expenses (if that's the term I want). That leaves Cr300/month. Assume food and lodging amounts to 2/3rds of living expenses. That gives you Cr200/month for food and lodging. Starvation level living costs Cr120/month. Subsistence level living costs Cr300/month. So Cr4000/year is somewhere between starvation level and subsistence level.

This assumes that Imperial pensions are exempt from local taxes².

¹ On a Starport A, TL15 world.

² Which I always have assumed.​

Oh, and forget about supporting a family.

We don't know what an Imperial serviceman earns, but starship crew in the civilian sector earns between Cr1000 and Cr6000 per month³. Let's call it Cr4000/month. That would make a Cr4000/year pension less than 10% of active duty salaries (Assuming admirals and engine hands get the same salary).

³The salaries mercenaries get are considerably smaller, but I'm not sure that they are comparable to Imperial Army salaries. Mercenaries get bonusses when they win, I believe.​

Hans

 

[McPerth]

I must agree with Hans about pension should be modified by Rank. My suggestion would be pension to be multiplied by 1 + Rank*0.25.

Would this be enough or the multiplier for Rank should be higher?

 

[mike wightman]

There is more to post service income than the pension.

Roll Travellers' Aid Society membership and there's 60,000 per year extra income.

Then there is the cash lump sum, a bit of a lottery but capable of generating a nice bit of starting capital.

A lucky ex-navy squib could have - after 5 terms service - 4000 Cr per year, pension, 150000 Cr in the bank and membership of the Travellers' Aid Society.

Get a job - you are still only 38 years of age.

 

[rancke]

There is more to post service income than the pension.

But all there is to the pension is the pension.

Roll Travellers' Aid Society membership and there's 60,000 per year extra income.

Cr54,000 (High Passages cost Cr10,000 but sells for Cr9,000).

Fail to roll TAS membership and there isn't any extra income. Not that there is any logical connection between the size of Imperial service pensions and TAS membership anyway.

Then there is the cash lump sum, a bit of a lottery but capable of generating a nice bit of starting capital.

Or as little as Cr3000 (Or Cr0, if the player didn't take any of his mustering out benefits as cash).

A lucky ex-navy squib could have - after 5 terms service - 4000 Cr per year, pension, 150000 Cr in the bank and membership of the Travellers' Aid Society.

Or he could have the pension and Cr3,000. (Plus the value of all those Low Passages he kept on rolling.

Get a job - you are still only 38 years of age.

A retired admiral shouldn't have to get a job to live above subsistence level.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

Or he could have the pension and Cr3,000. (Plus the value of all those Low Passages he kept on rolling.
Hans

Use a few of those and you won't have to worry about the small pension for very long...:devil:

 

[BlackBat242]

I'm glad someone mentioned inflation. The original rules were published in 1977. IIRC, the rules assumed 1CR was equivalent to a US dollar of the time. Using the official CPI inflation calculator, $4,000 in 1977 would equal $15,440 now. This is $1286 a month. Not too shabby.

Let's look at what Cr4000/year buys you¹. Deduct 10% for incidental expenses (if that's the term I want). That leaves Cr300/month. Assume food and lodging amounts to 2/3rds of living expenses. That gives you Cr200/month for food and lodging. Starvation level living costs Cr120/month. Subsistence level living costs Cr300/month. So Cr4000/year is somewhere between starvation level and subsistence level.

This assumes that Imperial pensions are exempt from local taxes².

¹ On a Starport A, TL15 world.

² Which I always have assumed.​

Oh, and forget about supporting a family.

We don't know what an Imperial serviceman earns, but starship crew in the civilian sector earns between Cr1000 and Cr6000 per month³. Let's call it Cr4000/month. That would make a Cr4000/year pension less than 10% of active duty salaries (Assuming admirals and engine hands get the same salary).

³The salaries mercenaries get are considerably smaller, but I'm not sure that they are comparable to Imperial Army salaries. Mercenaries get bonusses when they win, I believe.​

Hans

1. Hans - I'm not familiar with where you got those cost-of-living numbers from, I haven't seen anything in CT to that effect.

2. Leo's numbers are not bad - in 2009 I made only ~$18,000US, and was not doing bad for myself (splitting rent on a 3-bedroom 2 bath place with a cousin who was making about the same).

$4,000US per year in 1977 was $7,808.58US in 1988. That year, as an active-duty E-5 (SGT) in the USMC (with 2 years time-in-grade), that was almost half my yearly base pay.

If I had $15,440US as income I'd be able to go to school for a better job and still be able to make ends meet with just a <20 per week minimum wage job.

 

[Dagrill]

But all there is to the pension is the pension.

Fail to roll TAS membership and there isn't any extra income. Not that there is any logical connection between the size of Imperial service pensions and TAS membership anyway.
A retired admiral shouldn't have to get a job to live above subsistence level.
Hans

It depends what he does with his retirement benefit rolls doesn't it? There's up to 3 rolls on the cash table and 5 other benefit rolls. The connection is that the Admiral used part of his pension provision to purchase TAS membership.

Not tat I'd use an Admiral as a Traveller, a patron yes, but not a Traveller.

Regards

Davd

 

[aramis]

CT Book 4 has typical Mercenary salaries (per month) for the OTU.

Rank: Salary:
Private 300
Lance Corporal 400
Corporal 450
Lance Sergeant 500
Sergeant 550
Gunnery Sergeant 600
Leading Sergeant 700
First Sergeant 800
Sergeant Major 1000
Second Lieutenant 1000
First Lieutenant 1200
Captain 1400
Major 1600
Lt Colonel 1800
Colonel 2000

I would expect these to be no less than active duty base pay, and probably about double (but when I run, they're also stock imperial pay).

Note that this puts a merc private, in a standard 13 month year, making Cr3900 per year. And a merc Sergeant making KCr7150/year.

If my double hunch is right, then KCr4 would be 15% of a colonel's pay, 30% of a LT's, and 204% of a private's...

 

[rancke]

1. Hans - I'm not familiar with where you got those cost-of-living numbers from, I haven't seen anything in CT to that effect.

The figures from price of long-term subsistence. On p. 109 of TTB, but it's in the original LBBs too somewhere.


Hans

 

[rancke]

It depends what he does with his retirement benefit rolls doesn't it?

But the pension shouldn't depend on what he does with his mustering out benefits rolls, should it? Getting a ceremonial weapon or a travel voucher or winning some money gambling shouldn't affect his pension. As indeed it does not. There is NO correlation between mustering out benefits and pension received. It's the same no matter what.

Not that I'd use an Admiral as a Traveller, a patron yes, but not a Traveller.

Me neither, but as I made clear in a previous post, my objection to flat (and low) Imperial pensions isn't so much the game effect -- it's easy enough to come up with rules for that -- but the world-building aspects; the setting implications.


Hans

 

[rancke]

CT Book 4 has typical Mercenary salaries (per month) for the OTU.

[snip]

I would expect these to be no less than active duty base pay, and probably about double (but when I run, they're also stock imperial pay).

But this would seem to be over and above the cost of food and lodging, since remuneration assumes "all maintenance expenses covered by the patron" [M:20]. It also does not include bonuses -- the shares all mercenaries receive from profits.

Note that this puts a merc private, in a standard 13 month year, making Cr3900 per year. And a merc Sergeant making KCr7150/year.

Plus Cr300 (subsistence level) to Cr400 (ordinary level) per month for food and lodgings. Perhaps or perhaps not more for officers. Plus a share of the company's profits.


Hans

 

[ArcaneFlash]

Aramis,

So, how much would a Gen/Admiral get paid?

 

[aramis]

Aramis,

So, how much would a Gen/Admiral get paid?

On the mercenary scale, it's looking like a 4-star would get Cr2800/mo (using the same progression as shown for the rest of the officers), which implies actives probably getting about Cr1400/month base, plus room, board, special assignment pays, command bonus, yada yada...

All told, probably under Cr3000/month all included. or about KCr39/year.
And, given Bk4/5/6 generation restrictions, he's at least term 6 (Bk2) or has a bunch of attache assignments for 5-10 terms. To make it to 4 stars within 7 terms, at least two attache assignments are required. Most 7-termers have a couple... but also have missed a promotion or two elsewhere, so most flags would be retiring on KCr8-KCr12 per year.

Then again, the retirement pay doesn't look to be intended to be great... and there's no retirement pay for crippled-out-of-service characters below 5 terms of service...