Pensions...Retire on 4,000Cr. a year?

[selunatic2397]

One of my players rather politely inquired..."I was a 5 term retired naval captain and I get a paltry 4,000 credits...A YEAR? That's not even good for 1 year of ordinary living...only 10 months ordinary food and lodging...fixed income my sweet aunt's grape juice."

Does the retirement pay rates make any sense to any of you ?

I am toying with a per month rate, or ruling that the imperial credit is worth a lot more in planetary monopoly money so that 4,000 could let a retired non-Traveller live in ordinary lodging and food.

Do any of you have any ideas on what the retirement pay is supposed to be covering, or is it just a pittance as we are supposed to be out adventuring anyway.

The average retired non-Traveller can't live at anything more than subsistanance level on his 5 term pension...maybe he has a van down by the river?

 

[SpaceBadger]

One of my players rather politely inquired..."I was a 5 term retired naval captain and I get a paltry 4,000 credits...A YEAR? That's not even good for 1 year of ordinary living...only 10 months ordinary food and lodging...fixed income my sweet aunt's grape juice."

I believe I modified retired pay to essentially half-pay from last pay grade, and made up a table for those. I'll see if I can find it.

I may have gotten the idea from asking my Dad what he got, as a 24-year retired US Army LTC. I seem to recall it was some base amount, not including his flight pay (because obviously he wouldn't be flying anymore) or other little bonuses like that.

Anybody else know what US military retired pay is calculated on?

 

[Vladika]

One of my players rather politely inquired..."I was a 5 term retired naval captain and I get a paltry 4,000 credits...A YEAR? That's not even good for 1 year of ordinary living...only 10 months ordinary food and lodging...fixed income my sweet aunt's grape juice."

Does the retirement pay rates make any sense to any of you ?

I am toying with a per month rate, or ruling that the imperial credit is worth a lot more in planetary monopoly money so that 4,000 could let a retired non-Traveller live in ordinary lodging and food.

Do any of you have any ideas on what the retirement pay is supposed to be covering, or is it just a pittance as we are supposed to be out adventuring anyway.

The average retired non-Traveller can't live at anything more than subsistanance level on his 5 term pension...maybe he has a van down by the river?

The good Captain obviously failed to take a generous portion of bribes over his career?

Seriously, I do believe you are correct in thinking it's to promote adventuring. If you do just want to retire, a lower tech backwater planet would be quite affordable.

 

[aramis]

I believe I modified retired pay to essentially half-pay from last pay grade, and made up a table for those. I'll see if I can find it.

I may have gotten the idea from asking my Dad what he got, as a 24-year retired US Army LTC. I seem to recall it was some base amount, not including his flight pay (because obviously he wouldn't be flying anymore) or other little bonuses like that.

Anybody else know what US military retired pay is calculated on?

ForActive Duty: it looks like 2.5% per year (to a maximum of 75%) of the best 36 month base pay average in service (usually the last 36 months, but not always).

As for Traveller retirement pay making sense...
... it looks like a longevity based fixed contribution system. A few corporations have done that in the past - it's especially useful for encouraging workers to stay in. But it also typically is fraught with "Making time"...

Also note: A few militaries have in fact had a single pay rate for all ranks - and Generals and privates retired to the same pension. It wasn't great for morale, but it was certainly egalitarian. Comrade Trotskii encouraged undoing this reform in Russia and Cuba...

 

[Amber Chancer]

One of my players rather politely inquired..."I was a 5 term retired naval captain and I get a paltry 4,000 credits...A YEAR? That's not even good for 1 year of ordinary living...only 10 months ordinary food and lodging...fixed income my sweet aunt's grape juice."

Does the retirement pay rates make any sense to any of you ?

I am toying with a per month rate, or ruling that the imperial credit is worth a lot more in planetary monopoly money so that 4,000 could let a retired non-Traveller live in ordinary lodging and food.

Do any of you have any ideas on what the retirement pay is supposed to be covering, or is it just a pittance as we are supposed to be out adventuring anyway.

The average retired non-Traveller can't live at anything more than subsistanance level on his 5 term pension...maybe he has a van down by the river?

Player characters are supposed to be ADVENTURERS ... not settle-down-by-the-fire-with-a-comfortable-retirement-income types.

And at 5 terms ... your character is pretty damn young to be expecting to be able to retire on a comfortable income. Just look at a few actuarial tables and you'll see what I mean!

So just tell him "it's your incentive to go out and earn a bit of extra dosh in the universe ..."

 

[aramis]

5 terms is retirement eligibility for the military in the US. Note that survival rates in CGen are best fits for the survival rates of US troops during Vietnam, too. And that the aging tables produce a good fit to US age distribution in the 1970's. It's Yanks in Space.

A Retired 20-year soldier should be able to settle down to a nice quiet life on the retirement pay. That almost none do so for more than 5 years before going back to the workforce for terms 7-12... has less to do with money and a lot more to do with boredom. I've a number of retired SNCO and field grade officer acquaintances - they can afford, on their retirement pay, to live on the economy just fine... but they get bored.

Then again, 20 years in a current military is about 5-10 years too long for combat arms, but probably about 10 years too soon for REMFs.

 

[McPerth]

One of my players rather politely inquired..."I was a 5 term retired naval captain and I get a paltry 4,000 credits...A YEAR? That's not even good for 1 year of ordinary living...only 10 months ordinary food and lodging...fixed income my sweet aunt's grape juice."

Does the retirement pay rates make any sense to any of you ?

I am toying with a per month rate, or ruling that the imperial credit is worth a lot more in planetary monopoly money so that 4,000 could let a retired non-Traveller live in ordinary lodging and food.

Do any of you have any ideas on what the retirement pay is supposed to be covering, or is it just a pittance as we are supposed to be out adventuring anyway.

The average retired non-Traveller can't live at anything more than subsistanance level on his 5 term pension...maybe he has a van down by the river?

How many people can retire at 38 years old and live on their pensions?

See that for someone retitng at 62 years (so after 11 terms), pay would be 16000 Cr a year (4000 + 6 x 2000), alowing for a confortable life. 62 is quite a standard age to retire (at least in Spain), and it is expected to be raised as life expectancy raises too (something already having been in Traveller).

 

[aramis]

How many people can retire at 38 years old and live on their pensions?

See that for someone retitng at 62 years (so after 11 terms), pay would be 16000 Cr a year (4000 + 6 x 2000), alowing for a confortable life. 62 is quite a standard age to retire (at least in Spain), and it is expected to be raised as life expectancy raises too (something already having been in Traveller).

Based upon current US trends
Assuming one makes it to 20 years, typical rank will be E6 to E8, or O4 to O6.
Assuming no disability, an E6 retired at 20 will have a base pay of $1843.65/mo - quite livable. An O4 retires at $3678.3 or so. Even an E5 at 10 years medically retired out at 50% is getting $1500 a month.

The US military retirement is decent - and really, is quite livable. Poverty is pretty much under $1000/mo for a single individual. One can make $1200/mo working at McDonalds these days.

 

[McPerth]

See that those pensions are not only for military personnel, but any career (Scouts excepted) earn it.

 

[CosmicGamer]

One of my players rather politely inquired..."I was a 5 term retired naval captain and I get a paltry 4,000 credits...A YEAR? That's not even good for 1 year of ordinary living...only 10 months ordinary food and lodging...fixed income my sweet aunt's grape juice."

For a retirement that starts at age 38 and lasts the rest of your life it isn't so bad I think.

I don't know a single retired military person that actually retired when they got out. They all work, some eventually gaining a second retirement, some just working part time to help get by.

Perhaps check this out. http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/index.html

 

[Matt123]

I figured those were expressed in Imperial Credits not local.

Using CT's Trillion Credit Squadron (There are other sources of exchange rates in the OTU and they will produce different results.)

TL15 Starport A => 4,000 CrImps

TL8 Starport D (as the USA) 4000 / .5 = US$8,000 in 1980

Add in 34 years of inflation, to allow for Travellers original 1980ish publication date and frame of referance, at say 2% (YMMV)
$8,000 x 1.02^34 = circa US$15,700pa

I couldn't find a US pension rate (google foo failed). In comparison, the NZ pension today is roughly NZ$18,500 and the exchange rate today is roughly 1.2, so...
US$15,700 * 1.2 = NZ$18,800

The inflation figure makes a big difference. At 3% pa the US retirement figure comes out at US$21,800

I have no idea whether US$15 - 22k would be considered an adequate retirement figure, but its better than US$4k

 

[rancke]

It's not just the size of the pension (which is equal to the average per capita income of a TL6 world and 18% of the average per capita income of a TL15 world) but also that a retired admiral and a retired spaceman/3rd class get the same pension.

Murphy found that risible too.


Hans

 

[aramis]

See that those pensions are not only for military personnel, but any career (Scouts excepted) earn it.

Scouts get something comparable - they are able to find room and board at any scout base.

Ok, cash would be nice...

 

[BlackBat242]

Scouts get something comparable - they are able to find room and board at any scout base.

Ok, cash would be nice...

Old Scouts' Retirement Home.

There actually are some Veterans' Group Homes in the US, run by the VA and other organizations, that give free R&B to veterans over 65 (and usually at least 50% disabled) who have no retirement income. Naturally, there is far more demand than availability.


Actually, this is what I always assumed - that Traveller retirement pay was "spending money" to "fill in the gaps between jobs", and that retirees were expected to "continue to contribute to the Imperial Economy by gainful employment"!

That is, until they reach some form of old-age retirement (whether medical due to failed aging rolls, mandatory retirement age, or similar events), at which time they could enter a Veterans' Home run by their service branch, free of charge.

Of course, there would be graded accommodation levels, based on your "highest permanent rank held" - after all, RHIP!


This is why TAS membership is such a sought-after mustering-out benefit - remember that you get free R&B at TAS facilities both within and outside of the Imperium as a membership benefit, and I don't remember any limit on how long you can stay, or how many times you can use the benefit.

This pretty much means that TAS members don't have to spend their retirement pay on lodging - although if you stay long enough you might find that you have been added to a "resident voluntary working-party" list, and that your accommodations get slowly less pleasant if you don't "help out" with what TAS asks you to.

 

[aramis]

Old Scouts' Retirement Home.

There actually are some Veterans' Group Homes in the US, run by the VA and other organizations, that give free R&B to veterans over 65 (and usually at least 50% disabled) who have no retirement income. Naturally, there is far more demand than availability.


Actually, this is what I always assumed - that Traveller retirement pay was "spending money" to "fill in the gaps between jobs", and that retirees were expected to "continue to contribute to the Imperial Economy by gainful employment"!

That is, until they reach some form of old-age retirement (whether medical due to failed aging rolls, mandatory retirement age, or similar events), at which time they could enter a Veterans' Home run by their service branch, free of charge.

Of course, there would be graded accommodation levels, based on your "highest permanent rank held" - after all, RHIP!


This is why TAS membership is such a sought-after mustering-out benefit - remember that you get free R&B at TAS facilities both within and outside of the Imperium as a membership benefit, and I don't remember any limit on how long you can stay, or how many times you can use the benefit. This pretty much means that TAS members don't have to spend their retirement pay on lodging - although if you stay long enough you might find that you have been added to a "resident voluntary working-party" list, and that your accommodations get slowly less pleasant if you don't "help out" with what TAS asks you to.

Judging from an acquaintance in his 50's, with a 50%+ disability rating (Malaria and knees), under 65 is on a space available basis.

I figure the scouts treat it much like monastic communities often do - in some monasteries, anyone in need is taken in if they ask, but the price is doing what you can as long as you can, and being at prayers at the same times as the monks. Most can't handle it for more than a few weeks.

For scouts, yeah, they provide you 2 hots and a cot, in exchange for menial tasks - doing filing, doing cleaning, painting unit insignia, painting buildings, mowing lawns, training younger scouts in skills you're qualified to instruct... or removing scouts no longer able to serve from their uniforms, compartments, and preparing the removable remains for funerary rituals.

 

[McPerth]

Scouts get something comparable - they are able to find room and board at any scout base.

Ok, cash would be nice...

But having no retirement pay and, due to having no ranks, less mustering out rolls than most careers, I guess Scouts is not a good career when thinking about your retirement...

 

[Amber Chancer]

But having no retirement pay and, due to having no ranks, less mustering out rolls than most careers, I guess Scouts is not a good career when thinking about your retirement...

Like I say, if all you can think about is your retirement, you just ain't that much of an adventurer :file_21:

 

[rancke]

Like I say, if all you can think about is your retirement, you just ain't that much of an adventurer :file_21:

Sure, adventurers in certain kinds of campaigns ought not to have substantial pensions. But instead of making all admirals have puzzlingly insubstantial pensions, I would have gone with a rule that gave out plausible pensions, only not to adventuring admirals ("Your character cashed in his pension and bought shares in a mustard mine."¹)

¹ Or, if that would upset a player as an insult to his character's intelligence, "You bought shares in a company that had only a million to one chance of failing. Sadly..." ​

Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Holy smacks.

What the hell is it with everyone acting like if you aren't a complete broke ass you can't be an adventurer? You know money is not a bar to adventure, in fact it is extremely helpful.

 

[rancke]

What the hell is it with everyone acting like if you aren't a complete broke ass you can't be an adventurer? You know money is not a bar to adventure, in fact it is extremely helpful.

Hence my qualifier "in certain kinds of campaigns".


Hans