Patent of Nobility Card (where are you?)

[aramis]

I'm not assuming anything. I'm referring to previously published material about the 3rd Imperium in the OTU. And lamenting the fact that...

...No, forget that. I'm sorry I spoke in this thread. All we really know is that MM intends to retcon how the Imperial nobility works plus a table with little or no explanation. Until MM or his minions elucidate, speculation seems to me to be essentially futile, spinning wheels without any traction. But if others disagree, I shouldn't tromp over their arguments.

My sincere apologies for the intrusion.


Hans

It's no retcon... except to you GURPS players. GURPS added a LOT of details. T5 overwrites a lot of those details because they were never Traveller details. It also is overwriting some MgT-added details. It's a reversion to how it was implied to work in the first place, but GURPS authors decided differently...

 

[rancke]

It's no retcon...

I've very recently shown that this is not true in another thread. Imperial dukes were in charge of full subsectors, not individual worlds. Imperial counts were associated with (but not in charge of) groups of 2-3 worlds. Marquesses were associated with (but not in charge of) individual worlds. Barons started out as being associated with (perhaps in charge of?) parts of worlds. Read the essay on nobles in LDNZ if you don't believe me. (Note: The bit about not being in charge is a logical ramification of a different canonical statement in LDAM).

...except to you GURPS players.

I'm not a GURPS player. Tried it, didn't like it. Which is completely irrelevant; it's the added setting details in GT material that is the good, useful stuff that could have been transposed to any other version, past or future.

GURPS added a LOT of details.

Indeed they did. All approved of by Marc Miller. Some added at the insistence of Marc Miller.

T5 overwrites a lot of those details because they were never Traveller details.

They were always Traveller details. The GTU was the GURPS Traveller Universe and it was supposed to be identical to the OTU up to a very recent Change Point.

It also is overwriting some MgT-added details. It's a reversion to how it was implied to work in the first place, but GURPS authors decided differently...

It's an abandonment of 30 years worth of accumulated development of the Traveller Universe. A heartbreakingly wasteful idea.


Hans

 

[savage]

well...

I'd say that the past is unclear since there is no "detailed" breakdown of nobility throughout the imperium. Almost everything is written for the Spinward Marches. Or perhaps I should say that outside a few magazines we have very little details about CORE sector. It's a shame actually...very unfortunate.

I can see massive terraforming resulting less expansive zones for nobility.

 

[GypsyComet]

Imperial dukes were in charge of full subsectors, not individual worlds.

Some Dukes are in charge of a region of space, and some are in charge of an asset that may be just as important. If you look at the distribution of "small f" Dukes in the Marches, they would also appear to be in charge of chunks of border.

 

[rancke]

Some Dukes are in charge of a region of space, and some are in charge of an asset that may be just as important. If you look at the distribution of "small f" Dukes in the Marches, they would also appear to be in charge of chunks of border.

I was talking about what CT had to say about dukes. CT didn't have small fs.

"Duke: The fifth level of noble rank is the duke, and is associated with a subsector. The noble is referred to by the title followed by "of" and the subsector name." -- Library Data (N-Z), p. 36

"Interstellar government begins at the subsector level -- on one world designated the subsector capital. The ruling figure at the subsector capital is a high-ranking noble selected by higher levels of government. This duke has a free hand in government..." -- Library Data (A-M), p. 7​

Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

CT didn't have small fs.

Given the propensity for character generation on a Navy track to frequently spit out Dukes, that point is arguable even in CT.

 

[rancke]

Given the propensity for character generation on a Navy track to frequently spit out Dukes, that point is arguable even in CT.

Not really. The point that using the character generation system to generate all NPCs was a supremely bad notion is much more arguable.

(As was, IMO, allowing PCs to reach ducal and general officer rank, although that is admittedly a bit less incontestable).


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

It remains fascinating even 25 years later to remember that we are all playing different games with the same name.

(I say 25 because it wasn't particularly obvious for the first ten years.)

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Why the dislike?

Not really. The point that using the character generation system to generate all NPCs was a supremely bad notion is much more arguable.

(As was, IMO, allowing PCs to reach ducal and general officer rank, although that is admittedly a bit less incontestable).


Hans

So, Hans, why do you have such a dislike of using the Character Generation system to create NPCs? I mean even the NPCs are still not average folks, they are after all interacting with other Travellers so why not use the same system to build them?

Curious I am.

Laterness,
Craig.

 

[rancke]

So, Hans, why do you have such a dislike of using the Character Generation system to create NPCs? I mean even the NPCs are still not average folks, they are after all interacting with other Travellers so why not use the same system to build them?

I said 'all NPCs', not 'NPCs'. Using the character generation system to generate all NPCs is a bad idea because the results are unrealistic. Occupation and social class is much more strongly correlated than a random 2D roll implies. Jobs are likewise correlated to personal attributes and to skills. Not quite as strongly as social class is, but a lot stronger than the CGS would have it. The number of acrobats with low dexterity is very small. The number of incompetent pilots is pretty small. So is the number of incompetent bomb disposal experts, master chefs, surgeons, master craftsmen, etc.. The number of incompetents in any job is much less random than the CGS would have it, although the exact ratio varies with conditions. Sure, you can have an incompetent military officer, but you have far more of them in an army that has been at peace for a century than in one that has been at war for several years.

Whenever you stat out an NPC, you know a lot of things about him before you even start. And the things you don't know are apt to be a lot less random than the results the CGS system provides.

Atypical NPCs are possible, of course. But if they are really atypical, they should be introduced deliberately by the referee.

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot: Imperial barons are less than one in 250 million. Even if you're more likely to run into one if you're a member of the interstellar community, your odds of doing so randomly are still a lot less than 1 in 36.


Hans

 

[Original_Carl]

Reading this thread I just went and reviewed my "patents of nobility" and they're blank. That could be my fault for missing an email communication, but there is no world information on either one. I have a Knighthood and a Baron but neither specify region or world. Also, according to the Kickstarter, I should have recieved a Count (and I think some dice along with two CR25 coins). My shipped package contained:

1. Rule book in slip case -- beautiful, by the way
2. CDROM with all previous editions of Traveller -- super unexpected bonus
3. Three 8.5x11 cards in envelope: Baron, Knight and map of Spinward Marches -- nicely printed, with a Noble Lands rule summary on the back of the knight card.

Perhaps I'm confused, or in the chaos of shipping over 2000 orders in such a short time something got overlooked.

Sorry to bring this up here, but since y'all were talking about your nobility grants I thought I'd better speak up.

Feel free to PM me if that's more appropriate.

-Carl

 

[DonM]

Reading this thread I just went and reviewed my "patents of nobility" and they're blank. That could be my fault for missing an email communication, but there is no world information on either one. I have a Knighthood and a Baron but neither specify region or world. Also, according to the Kickstarter, I should have recieved a Count (and I think some dice along with two CR25 coins). My shipped package contained:

1. Rule book in slip case -- beautiful, by the way
2. CDROM with all previous editions of Traveller -- super unexpected bonus
3. Three 8.5x11 cards in envelope: Baron, Knight and map of Spinward Marches -- nicely printed, with a Noble Lands rule summary on the back of the knight card.

Perhaps I'm confused, or in the chaos of shipping over 2000 orders in such a short time something got overlooked.

Sorry to bring this up here, but since y'all were talking about your nobility grants I thought I'd better speak up.

Feel free to PM me if that's more appropriate.

-Carl

Carl, please contact Marc right away at farfuture@gmail.com and let him know.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Spoooky.

Reading this thread I just went and reviewed my "patents of nobility" and they're blank. That could be my fault for missing an email communication, but there is no world information on either one. I have a Knighthood and a Baron but neither specify region or world. Also, according to the Kickstarter, I should have recieved a Count (and I think some dice along with two CR25 coins). My shipped package contained:

1. Rule book in slip case -- beautiful, by the way
2. CDROM with all previous editions of Traveller -- super unexpected bonus
3. Three 8.5x11 cards in envelope: Baron, Knight and map of Spinward Marches -- nicely printed, with a Noble Lands rule summary on the back of the knight card.

Perhaps I'm confused, or in the chaos of shipping over 2000 orders in such a short time something got overlooked.

Sorry to bring this up here, but since y'all were talking about your nobility grants I thought I'd better speak up.

Feel free to PM me if that's more appropriate.

-Carl

Dear Peer:

Welcome to the Illuminated Noble Network!

In order to activate your Pslightly Psionic Plastic noble ID/patents, you will need the following:

1. A dark, private room.
2. A small clear, good quality quartz crystal.
3. A candle.

Enter the room, get comfortable and douse the lights...:devil:

 

[Original_Carl]

Dear Peer:

Welcome to the Illuminated Noble Network!

In order to activate your Pslightly Psionic Plastic noble ID/patents, you will need the following:

1. A dark, private room.
2. A small clear, good quality quartz crystal.
3. A candle.

Enter the room, get comfortable and douse the lights...:devil:

:file_19:

You could at least offer to buy me dinner first, Magnus!

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Don't shoot the messenger.

:file_19:

You could at least offer to buy me dinner first, Magnus!

Hey,

I didn't send them to you. His Imperial Majesty's Bureaucracy sent them to you.

 

[Original_Carl]

I've emailed Mr. Miller about my situation. Thanks for reminding me that I should do that, Don.

 

[Bloo]

I only got credit cards and two maps. Which is fine with me.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

I didn't contribute to the KickStarter drive but did purchase the PDF (several years ago), so I only received an updated disk in an envelope, but it did come with a Credit Card-like Patent of Nobility (with the number 3126 on the back) identifying me as a Knight of the Iridium Throne from Core 2105 Shiza (B561542-B).

 

[Original_Carl]

Nice! Did you look yourself up on the Traveller Map?

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

I finally got around to looking it up and it looks like its a little off the beaten path (not on an Express Boat route and one of the two closest other systems is an Amber Zone).