And, by the way, the reason I wrote that episode of Cirque as such was to acknowledge that Hop will come, but will not be manufactured by the races in Known Space during the Golden Age. The background of the Golden age has been written. Technology that would alter Canon isn't going to be factored in, unless it's an artifact available only as a Special, Non-Reproducible Circumstance. As it is, T5 adds cloning and memory transfer, more than enough to make one question the results of the Rebellion.
Oort Clouds and Jump
- Thread starter aramis
- Start date
And, by the way, the reason I wrote that episode of Cirque as such was to acknowledge that Hop will come, but will not be manufactured by the races in Known Space during the Golden Age. The background of the Golden age has been written. Technology that would alter Canon isn't going to be factored in, unless it's an artifact available only as a Special, Non-Reproducible Circumstance. As it is, T5 adds cloning and memory transfer, more than enough to make one question the results of the Rebellion.
According to CT AM 8 Darrians, they were neither solid TL16 nor edging towards TL17... They had TL16 relics and were really TL15 with TL16 in a few areas.
Page 2:
There are three well-known facts about the Darrians. Darrians
have a high-tech society with some parts of it reaching tech level
16
have a high-tech society with some parts of it reaching tech level
16
Page 16 gives us some breakdowns.
Power: TL16
COmputers: TL14, but standard is fiber-optics
Commo: still limited to Meson.
Personal Military: Visitors to Darrian often have high hopes
of finding exotic tech level 16 weapons which are simply not
available in the Imperium. They find that such weapons are not
available; however, they usually don't go away disappointed.
Darrian has available a wide variety of personal military
weapons, up to and including gauss rifles, personal combat armor,
and fusion guns (FGMP-14 and FGMP-15). For individuals
not concerned with price, Darrian is a weapons heaven.
Modern Technology: Modern Darrian technology is generally
about tech level 13 for local products with a liberal sprinkling
of tech level 14-15 products that are locally produced or imported
from the Imperium. Most of the merchant ships are tech
level 13, and the Navy is usually about the same with two very
important exceptions.
of finding exotic tech level 16 weapons which are simply not
available in the Imperium. They find that such weapons are not
available; however, they usually don't go away disappointed.
Darrian has available a wide variety of personal military
weapons, up to and including gauss rifles, personal combat armor,
and fusion guns (FGMP-14 and FGMP-15). For individuals
not concerned with price, Darrian is a weapons heaven.
Modern Technology: Modern Darrian technology is generally
about tech level 13 for local products with a liberal sprinkling
of tech level 14-15 products that are locally produced or imported
from the Imperium. Most of the merchant ships are tech
level 13, and the Navy is usually about the same with two very
important exceptions.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is something being overlooked in this discussion, discovery of jump, hop, leap drives require a genius level breakthrough. Cultures can get to TL20+ and never discover the jump drive, and then make the breakthrough that gives them hop etc.
Jump drive research does not lead to automatically discovering hop drive.
As an aside I think the TL rules with regards to prototypes, early models and the like are pretty shoddy - they don't work to model historical breakthroughs in science and technology (unless you want a Roman Empire with a couple of experimental atomic reactors in the outer provinces).
A better way to do it would have been via the QREBS system allowing for prototypes/breakthroughs but not having the silly 3TL spread over which a technology is introduced, developed, standardised then optimised.
Jump drive research does not lead to automatically discovering hop drive.
As an aside I think the TL rules with regards to prototypes, early models and the like are pretty shoddy - they don't work to model historical breakthroughs in science and technology (unless you want a Roman Empire with a couple of experimental atomic reactors in the outer provinces).
A better way to do it would have been via the QREBS system allowing for prototypes/breakthroughs but not having the silly 3TL spread over which a technology is introduced, developed, standardised then optimised.
You wouldn't happen to have a convenient Chapter or Page # reference, would you?
Episode 17: A Shaggy Dog Story
1315 Mirriam
E572300-8 N Lo Ni 110 Im F5 V
P. 163
No, it will NOT produce a working Hop Drive for your PCs.
Maybe I'll buy it some day if I get the opportunity. Or perhaps a friend will and I'll be able to read his copy.Well, you will have to buy it for quasi-canon completeness with cranky commentators.
It's customary in the Traveller community for people to help others with canon information they don't have access to. Check out the Wiki to see what sort of material that is usually considered legitimate. As regard to Cirque, you're the one to decide if you want to allow that or not. If you do, great; if you don't, I'll just ignore anything you've written and if I ever submit a writeup of the Lon Geryen to an official publication, the editor will have to inform me of any changes he deems necessary.
Hans
Hans, I'm familiar with the wiki.
It certainly is NOT mandated that I supply a free copy of something I wrote...and I DID provide a very short summary of information relating to Darrian attempts at development of the Hop Drive, if you'll read what I wrote above. Also, please note that I teased myself about the canonical value of Cirque -- but it's a licensed T5 product with can be taken as canon. For the record, every word was run by Marc Miller, Donald McKinney, Rob Eaglestone, and a number of others.
Please feel free to ignore anything I've written or produced. However, please also note that Cirque is available for a reasonable price. Also, I bought my references to write Cirque, including GT's Behind the Claw and the GT reference of the Sword Worlds, McKinney's MgT book on Zhodani, etc. It was a point of pride, if nothing else.
And no one said it was. If you're familiar with the wiki, you'll know the kind and level of free information I'm talking about.
I read it. I did not find it detailed enough to be useful. But thanks for your effort all the same.
I would certainly like to regard it as canon.
I never doubted it for a moment.
Thank you very much.
I never said it wasn't. As it happens, I don't use electronic money transfers, but that's not your problem.
That's usually much the best way to go about it. Of course, as you know, if for some reason there had been any canon material that you could not get hold of, I would have been quite willing to let you have any information I happened to possess, including anything from GT: Sword Worlds.
Hans
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While I appreciate the sentiment on this, I am happier giving you and the GURPS crew money for information I need if it is available for money. As I said, a point of pride. By the way, I was expressly referred to the GURPS Sword Worlds as a primary reference. I did not use the maps, because I was concerned that went beyond the permissions I obtained. I noted the difference.
On the Wiki: the wiki needs to be at a particular level of detail, and carefully maintained at that level I suppose that at some point I should consider putting some bare-bones material in.
The example you give -- two ten-parsec "hops" to travel a mere two parsecs -- seems absurd, agreed. UNTIL you note that the two hops can be achieved in well under the one week required by a J2 vessel to go the two parsecs. Hop accesses a "faster" layer or whatever of hyperspace.
In addition, Hop and Antimatter Power reach effective use at about the same time. Thus, the vessel can "turn around" from one hop to the next.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
And once again - by the rules as written there is absolutely no need to do this since the T5 jump line can be aimed at a 100D limit and used to precipitate out of 'drive' space.
What you can't do is make empty hex hops shorter, but it is only a matter of time before a hop governor makes an appearance (who pays the 1t cost for the jump governor these days
)
What you can't do is make empty hex hops shorter, but it is only a matter of time before a hop governor makes an appearance (who pays the 1t cost for the jump governor these days
)
