On numbers in the UWP, and how they affect future rolls.

[LiminalMask]

It is possible to generate negative numbers when rolling up a system's UWP. You can also end up with number greater than the normal range. For example, according to Mongoose rules, Government is generated by rolling 2d6-7, then adding the planet's population. You could conceivably roll a 2 and have a population of 1, thus 2-7+1=-4.

Obviously, you would set Government as 0 for this world, ultimately. But here's my question.

Another digit, Law Level, depends on Government. (2d6-7+Government.)

So, when you calculate Law Level, should you use the *unadjusted* dice roll or should you use the *adjusted* dice roll?

Why should this make a difference? Let's use the example above:
Rolling a 2, having population of 1, generates an unadjusted Government value of -4, or an adjusted value of 0.

Now we roll Law Level, which calls for 2d6-7 + Government. If we roll a 12, we have two choices:

Unadjusted (12-7-4): Law Level of 1.
Adjusted: (12-7-0): Law level of 5.

This is particularly of interest if you're trying to build a spreadsheet that calculates UWP.

Is there an official rule on this?

 

[far-trader]

Adjusted. Note the syntax:

2d6-7+Government (per your example)

Not:

2d6-7+(2d6-7+Population)

Which would have to be (to continue your suggestion):

2d6-7+(2d6-7+(2d6-2))

Each step in the generation sequence sets any results that exceed the table definitions to the extreme of that end of the table. There are no negative Government types to give you -4 for example to apply to the roll for Law Level. A result of Government below 0 is set at 0. And 0 (the actual Government) is what you apply to the roll for Law Level.

 

[LiminalMask]

Unadjusted.

I think, by your argument, you mean 'adjusted'.

You make a good argument, and that was my initial inclination. However, I thought that perhaps going off the raw, unadjusted number would allow for more variation. I.e., a government of A will never had a Law Level under 5, government 7 will never have Law Level under 2, etc. (except by Ref fiat). I understand the reasoning for that (historically speaking, more totalitarian governments have more restrictive laws) it does seem sort of limiting.

Nevertheless, I buy your argument.

 

[BytePro]

Yep - my take was that the limits are intentional - hence the adjusted values are used.

 

[far-trader]

I think, by your argument, you mean 'adjusted'.

Right you are, I misread your usage, had it turned around.

...I thought that perhaps going off the raw...

I think your first instinct fits the raw, as I said simply read the context of the raw, you use "Government", that is the derived value. Not the "calculated result of the previous roll" or it would have been presented as such. The raw really is that simple

 

[Mithras]

Use the adjusted level always. If 0 or below, count as 0. Count as 0 for later rolls....

 

[Whipsnade]

Is there an official rule on this?

Yes there is and it's been around for nearly thirty five years.

When rolling up UWPs, you adjust the various rolls by the UWP digit in question. Not the number which resulted from whatever 2D6-7+X formula you used earlier, but by the number that you recorded in the UWP.

Because no UWP digit can be a negative number, the situation you asked about will never happen.

Yes, this does the possible range of numbers is limited. The system was designed with that in mind.

 

[Enoki]

I'd say it probably doesn't really matter. If government is 0 and the original rolled / calculated value was -4 the likelihood is that you end up near or at 0 for law level in any case.

 

[aramis]

There is only one "negative number" recorded in a UWP, and that in subordinate worlds when using Bk6 or later expanded/extended world gen: worlds of size <0 are recorded as size S, not 0.

 

[PhillWebb]

I thought that there was a rule that if government was 0 then Law Level was automatically set to 0 with no rolling?

Phill
aragraph:

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I thought that there was a rule that if government was 0 then Law Level was automatically set to 0 with no rolling?

Phill

Not that I can find in CT LBB3 or LBB6. However, LBB3 (pg7) says this:

At times, the referee (or the players) will find combinations of features which may seem contradictory or unreasonable. Common sense should rule in such cases; either the players or referee will generate a rationale which explains the situation, or an alternative description should be made.

This would be the right answer (and, no, it can't be programmed into a spreadsheet ).

 

[Fritz_Brown]

There is only one "negative number" recorded in a UWP, and that in subordinate worlds when using Bk6 or later expanded/extended world gen: worlds of size <0 are recorded as size S, not 0.

And, it is one of the characteristics that makes it harder to build a spreadsheet for this stuff. /sigh/ You have to add in that "if it isn't a number, then....." bit to every formula.