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*OLD* "One-Day-Hop" Culture

robject

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This discussion was based on the OLD "one day per hop" problem. Since then, Marc has changed back to one week between any sort of interstellar transit.


Imagine if you would a TL19 Hop Culture in Charted Space.

  • Assume that smaller ships tend to still use the power plant, and that larger ships (1000t and up) tend to have antimatter power.
  • Assume Hop drives have the same volume and cost as Jump drives. Thus a "C" Hop Drive displaces 20 tons and costs MCr 20.
  • Assume any ship can have a Hop-1, Hop-2, or Hop-3 drive instead of a Jump drive. Thus a Beowulf can replace its Jump-1 drive with Hop-1 (or Hop-2, with some reclaimed fuel tankage and a bit more cash).
  • Assume that a Hop drive can get to any system, either by doing a "two hop dance", or just by aiming the ship right. So one to two days to get anywhere within range of the Hop drive.
Muse on the possible effects of such a scenario on the OTU.
 
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Imagine if you would a TL19 Hop Culture in Charted Space.
(...)
Muse on the possible effects of such a scenario on the OTU.

More awesome misjumps?
Less accurate in-system pin-pointing; more travel-time with M-drives in-system?
Such a ship has an edge in providing earlier news from a system, of a revolution or a financial upheaval. The long, sticky arm of stock-market speculators gets interested, where before they only had really accurate intel for their own system and nearby hexes?
The MegaTraveller fragmentation of the Imperium couldn't happen if military ships can Hop to each factional sector as if they're right next door. The Imperium is more threatening to its non-human neighbours and has an edge, and may expand its territory ("No Prime Directive." according to T5) Border defenses are meaningless if the Imperium can Hop right over them and "go deep".
 
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More focus on systems with planets optimal for settlement by Humaniti? Why travel to or spend much time in marginal systems unless there's something of particular or significant value there when you can get to a garden world readily? Would other systems slowly whither, or would economics still ensure the current (1120) spread of settlement without a major variation?
 
And Zhodani... and K'kree... and, egads, Vargr corsairs...

And since the Hivers are already high-tech TL-15 (borderline TL-16) in the CT/MT era, imagine the manipulations that they would be able to do when they invented the Hop-Drive and could go all over the place . . . :)
 
Some of the things I think are likely to happen:

(0) Change in how wars are conducted (!).

(1) Immediate speedup of Xboat service and communications.
(2) Immediate upgrade of commercial freighters.
(3) Immediate "great leap forward" in exploration.

(4) Near-term relocation of exploitation-based colonies to more favorable worlds.
(5) Near-term decommissioning of "intermediate" Xboat stations.
(6) Near-term order-of-magnitude uptick in interstellar traffic.

(7) "Interstate" effect on many marginal settlements: "death" within 1 generation.
(8) "Suburb" effect on powerful worlds: ruled colonies become commonplace.
(9) Far-flung colonies within 1 to 2 generations.
 
Some of the things I think are likely to happen:

(0) Change in how wars are conducted (!).

(1) Immediate speedup of Xboat service and communications.
(2) Immediate upgrade of commercial freighters.
(3) Immediate "great leap forward" in exploration.

(4) Near-term relocation of exploitation-based colonies to more favorable worlds.
(5) Near-term decommissioning of "intermediate" Xboat stations.
(6) Near-term order-of-magnitude uptick in interstellar traffic.

(7) "Interstate" effect on many marginal settlements: "death" within 1 generation.
(8) Far-flung colonies within 1 to 2 generations.


And also:

Zhodani Core Expeditions efforts renewed (assuming not only the Imperium has it)...
 
re: "Suburb" effect on powerful worlds: ruled colonies become commonplace.

Something which may happen is that Rhylanor will become the ruling world in its quadrant of the Marches, reducing Regina to a "vassal" or a nominal governmental headquarters.

Moreover, Mora will have a chunk of the Marches and Deneb, while Glisten takes subsectors around it.
 
There was already one in the planning stages in the 11-teens. If the Zhodani were able to get enough logistics assets behind the Wave and moving before 1129, Virus would have a tough time chasing them down. There may be a stalled expedition at one of the waypoint worlds, waiting for a logistics tail that will never arrive.
 
Some of the things I think are likely to happen:

(0) Change in how wars are conducted (!).

(1) Immediate speedup of Xboat service and communications.
(2) Immediate upgrade of commercial freighters.
(3) Immediate "great leap forward" in exploration.

(4) Near-term relocation of exploitation-based colonies to more favorable worlds.
(5) Near-term decommissioning of "intermediate" Xboat stations.
(6) Near-term order-of-magnitude uptick in interstellar traffic.

(7) "Interstate" effect on many marginal settlements: "death" within 1 generation.
(8) "Suburb" effect on powerful worlds: ruled colonies become commonplace.
(9) Far-flung colonies within 1 to 2 generations.

0) Response times drop to 3 days for everything within 10-30 Pc distance to come running rather than 2 weeks for every ship with 3 PC of a Jump 1-3 setting. Lets not even begin to think about just how badly a hop equipped fleet (even just hop 1) can out maneuver any Jump fleet, giving such a massive advantage to the first polity to discover hop, that its not funny. Example. If the Imperium is the first to get hop, it conquers known space in a generation. Jump based polity's either fold, or join the new Hop polity. That's pretty much all there is to it.
1) 2 days for a mail order response? So much for spec trade.
2) Ummm, yeah.
3) Hop 2 gives a scale that effectively turns the Zhodani core run into the same effective ~2 year time/distance that a jump 2 ships makes the Regina-Terra run in. Exploration, very big thing.
4) you now can bypass less optimal worlds and effectively colonize only the one that are the most habitable, or the most profitable, and can ignore the rest.
5) oh yeah. Only need the way stations (1 or 2 per sub sector at most) and any scout bases would in effect become more useful to chart/explore all those useless non-habitable/profitable worlds that were bypassed and not colonized
6) after the initial rush of "Firsts" (first to the core, ect) as it only takes a day to get places, interstellar tourism would have a massive upswing, and "space trains" would replace ships with large cabins. More people would be packed into ships, similar to how they pack trains. Mid passages, would probably share a double occupancy small craft cabin, while those of High passage level would get a private cabin of about the same size. However, the majority of Traveller might even be Steerage, and probably just sleep in their acceleration couch when they aren't up and around the common areas, like the galley or bar. Think trains.
7) It is no longer necessary to hit every world on the main. You only need to go to the ones that are habitable (because that's where the people will be) or profitable (Because that's where the money is). Marginal worlds will most likely be forgotten and bypassed.
8)As for a suburb effect, that's possible. More likely though, is an "outback/village" effect. Worlds that would normally be bypassed being settled by people who don't want to be bugged by interstellar tourism, but are still part of the local hop polity.
9) yes. Far-flung, but not out of contact unless they choose to be. After all, that world that's a week away might be 140 Pc distant, but it is still only a week away.

those are my initial thoughts on your questions.
 
Given that it's 2-3 days aboard, you no longer see full staterooms except for crew and luxury class passengers. (Crew because they live there)

You get more like the oriental express trains than like ships; No one in couches (because it can take two hops at a day each, plus up to a day in system due to stars), but not the level of service that a longer passage requires. 2-3 mids in a cabin, 1 high. Steerage will be in spacer niches or 3-4 per cabin; standard frozen low passage will of needs be containerized berths, rather than installed berths, because it's just too long. Alternate low passage will be fast drug and a bunk.

Due to the shorter travel time, with H1, travel blossoms to two hops distance (noting few people travel more than 1 day each way per week of vacation, given the choice).

Marginal worlds off the mains become self sufficient and isolated. The drop off is, at first, marginal, but the writing is on the wall - they're going to need to develop their own support structure, and so you get two overlapping nations - one hop, and then the jump-only pocket empires that are bypassed because they're not worth the trade. these pocket empires will tend to peak about TL12 (anything higher is worth forcing into the Hop-Nation)

Marginal worlds in mains with hop-worthy worlds will split between remaining clients, and abandoned. Think about what happened with the US interstates.

Habitable but undesirable will have the tendency to be renegades.

Worlds deep in their star's jump-shadow will be places for people who want to avoid the hop-culture. They may even trade with them, but it will be entirely by their own ships; there's not enough for them to provide that something easier to get to can't provide, so they tend to be isolationist self-sufficient, and providing only high value raw materials.

Spec Trade reduces drastically; with 2-3 days comm time, neighbors within reach can be commed to in reasonable back and forth; spec still happens, but more akin to 1890's steamer era - filling space not commissioned by freight; an afterhtought, not the primary means of support.

Cost per trip will be (typically) based upon distance in hops +1.5 - this allows for the 100D to surface and back, plus the end hop being two because you hit the star's shadow, not the planet's. (This is where T5's anywhere on the line comes to be a benefit.)

Oh, and the military: Hop Culture is at least TL15, usually 17+... The jump only worlds will be facing White Globes, disintegrators and APAWs... and the ability to react faster.

What gets into Hop Culture? Anyplace TL 14+ gets sucked in; they are capable of building hop drives. Major resource worlds, and almost all garden worlds, and anyplace pop 8+, these are your likely Hop-culture "forced inductions"... The lower tech ones may still have 1-jump clusters of lower tech backwaters associated. Anything lesser is likely skipped; not worth the costs to go there.
 
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7) It is no longer necessary to hit every world on the main. You only need to go to the ones that are habitable (because that's where the people will be) or profitable (Because that's where the money is). Marginal worlds will most likely be forgotten and bypassed.
It never was necessary, though. At least not since the invention of jump-2. For any distance greater than one parsec, J2 and J3 are cheaper than J1.

Given the ship design system, marginal worlds along mains will have been ignored and bypassed since the dawn for the Siru Zirka.


Hans
 
It never was necessary, though. At least not since the invention of jump-2. For any distance greater than one parsec, J2 and J3 are cheaper than J1.

Given the ship design system, marginal worlds will have been ignored and bypassed since the dawn for the Siru Zirka.


Hans

Close enough to the facts to support my point. Only now, even more worlds will be marginalized.

Thanks Hans.
 
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