Not trying to be negative nelly...
- Thread starter Kilgs
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AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I agree that it is not really finished.
Lots of ideas, lots of streamlined systems, but they are not really finished and often don't really work. There are also lots of editing mistakes, where different pages says contradicting things.
But that was T5.09, let's hope T5.10 is better!
Lots of ideas, lots of streamlined systems, but they are not really finished and often don't really work. There are also lots of editing mistakes, where different pages says contradicting things.
But that was T5.09, let's hope T5.10 is better!
Without Loren to translate Marc to English...
... and without Don to Say, "Hey, Marc, this is hard to parse"...
that leaves that monumental task to Rob and a handful of others.
Marc writes great rules - but not in plain English.
Major B
SOC-14 1K
There are quite a few dedicated, unpaid folks who are putting a great effort into doing that for T5.1.
I remember not long ago reading a comment in another thread saying that the growth in page count across each iteration of T5 is an indication that it is unplayable. I think the opposite is more true and you just nailed the point.
T5.1 is going to be a 3 volume set running about 256 pages each (current plan, subject to change). I think that T5 has so much in it that a dozen or more volumes would be about right to make all of the depth inside it accessible.
But that is purely my opinion. I expect there would be disagreement on that.
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
If you have T5.09, ask your questions about the rules. Answers will come.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Are you trying to build an entire planetary system? If so, ask yourself a few questions.
1. Am I going to use all of the planets in the planetary system, or is the action primarily taking place on one planet?
2. If the answer is the action is primarily going to take place on one planet, then build that planet first, based on what you visualize the characteristics to be. Do you have a picture in your mind of the planet?
3. Is the primary planet going to be readily habitable by humans, or will it require an artificial environment?
4. Do you need a gas giant in the system? If so, add one, and worry about placing it properly later.
5. Do you have to know the exact type of the star, or is that something that is basically, the Sun is yellow and like Sol?
Basically, break your task into blocks, and build things as you need them. One thing that has helped me figure out the rules a bit better, is break the various chapters and sections covering World Building into separate files, and start with the basics of the primary world. I generally will have an imagine in my mind as to what the planet should look like, and then go from there.
Do you have a specific plot or story line in mind that will take place on the planet? Analyze why you are building the system. What are your objectives? Get answers to those questions, and building a system becomes easier.
Part of the problem is that Marc put everything including the kitchen sink in the rules for building a planetary system rather than using a series of building blocks.
Edit Note: It would also help if Marc could decide whether the Hydrographics percentage is based on Flux + Size, page 431, or Flux + Atmosphere, page 433, rules T5.0.9.
Personally, I go with 2D-7 + Atmosphere, unless I decide that I do not like the die roll, and set it to what I want. Remember, die rolls are advisory, not written on plates of stone.
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I'd be happy to help you puzzle it out.
I write wiki articles to help explain these things and I would love your feedback so that I can build out a better resource for fans like you at the wiki.
Please PM me. We can exchange emails and phone numbers... Will make communication easier.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
[m;]We are aware this skirts the issue of "negativity."[/m;]
My view, unless adjusted by staff in the near future, is that this is a valid observation about the state of the rules text, feedback for Marc. It's the kind of feedback that I do tend to pass on to Marc.
Sometimes, I wait a week to see if it's just a cry for help, a person-centric issue, or a rules-text-issue.
Most users don't see the sometimes heated debates following reports.
[m;]Reasoned complaints in this thread will not be actionable , provided they are legit, polite and cogent .[/m;]
My view, unless adjusted by staff in the near future, is that this is a valid observation about the state of the rules text, feedback for Marc. It's the kind of feedback that I do tend to pass on to Marc.
Sometimes, I wait a week to see if it's just a cry for help, a person-centric issue, or a rules-text-issue.
Most users don't see the sometimes heated debates following reports.
[m;]Reasoned complaints in this thread will not be actionable , provided they are legit, polite and cogent .[/m;]
Thanks, Maksim. I was just playing around with some empty sectors for fun and decided to haul out T5 again so I could see if the Worldbuilder webapp would add to my game.
The main issue is that the checklist and table order/presentation is all out of whack. The directions to each table should be clearly defined before the table and not buried under them.
I've mucked around enough that I've figured it but it's just presentation.
And I still can't figure out what the difference/purpose behind Dangerous/Puzzle is... And apparently RU's don't mean anything? The Cultural Modifier provides no real direction and the Economic thingie is just hand-waving at this point. So it seems like there is lots of stuff that can be cut out and bolted on later. Although I really like the Importance identifier as it really changes the way one looks at Travellermap.
(PS-I'm sure I have an old version of T5 as I haven't downloaded any new versions since I bought it two years ago.)
If I came across some specific examples, as I'm going to be playing with it some more, I'll PM you.
The main issue is that the checklist and table order/presentation is all out of whack. The directions to each table should be clearly defined before the table and not buried under them.
I've mucked around enough that I've figured it but it's just presentation.
And I still can't figure out what the difference/purpose behind Dangerous/Puzzle is... And apparently RU's don't mean anything? The Cultural Modifier provides no real direction and the Economic thingie is just hand-waving at this point. So it seems like there is lots of stuff that can be cut out and bolted on later. Although I really like the Importance identifier as it really changes the way one looks at Travellermap.
(PS-I'm sure I have an old version of T5 as I haven't downloaded any new versions since I bought it two years ago.)
If I came across some specific examples, as I'm going to be playing with it some more, I'll PM you.
Check the credits page, it should say version 5, Version 5.01, or Version 5.09.
(At least two other partial versions exist, but are inner circle only releases.)
I was unaware that one had gone beyond the "Inner Circle" - The IC has a newer draft yet... in chunks...
MichaelSTee
SOC-12
The 759-page PDF has "Core Rules v5.09" on page 1, and "Print Edition 5.1" on page 4.
So this is the same version that has been out for a while now.
So this is the same version that has been out for a while now.
Qstor2
SOC-13
That's why I never got T5 1.0 or did the Kickstarter.
I took one look at the book and decided that I didn't want to read 900 pages to learn a system from what I've heard isn't far off from MegaTraveller.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It's nothing like MegaTraveller. It's more akin to T4 if anything.
You've been sorely misinformed.
The only thing really common with MegaTraveller is the table-heavy design.
Mechanically, it's closest to T4 for characters and combat, closest to T20 & Book 5 for ship design (but with more greeblies), closest to Bk 7 for trade, and closest to T20 for world and system generation.
But, aside from character gen, it's about 3 times further from each than MT was from CT. CGen is about 2 times from T4.
Originally, Mongoose Traveller was supposed to be T5 light... but due to the then state of T5, that didn't happen, and Gareth redesigned from first principles based upon CT1E with zero errata, and only B0-5 and S4 to work from. And references to that may be the source of the misinformation.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
If definitely is not even close to MegaTraveller. It does take some work to figure out however, as the organization could be better. Marc poured a lot of data into it.
I am working on filling Don's shoes and getting things parsed and explained properly.
Thank goodness for Rob and others. I really want to make T5 accessible.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Qstor2
SOC-13
I think off "the top of my head" to make T5 more "accessible" the "main" book needs to be cut down to about 350 pages. Granted I'm not a game developer or even an editor.
But if you look at D&D, Shadowrun or MgT1 the books a player "needs" aren't 500-900 pages. The GM/referee's and the player's books should both be about the size of the DMG and the PHB. With language that's in "plain English" with a good index.
