Noble Patent Conflict

[Bloo]

I made a list of Spinward Nobles by patent (kickstarter and beta) over here, and noticed some conflicts.

I don't know how to deal with them. Marc may have to rule, but hopefully he would bless any amicable agreements.

Conflict 1: Baron of Iderati
Both grondak and smiths121 have reported this noble patent.
By the Noble Lands materials, Iderati rates a Duke (f) and a Baron. If each Trade Classification deserves a noble of the appropriate rank, then it would deserve two Barons for being both Ag and Ri.
Note however that by that reasoning, some systems get double Dukes (Capital and Importance 4+) , double Counts (Hi and In), etc.

Conflict 2: Glisten (and Mora)
Previous post.
Warwizard received: "Duke of Glisten Spinward Marches" (I presume as requested)
Bloo received: "Duke Duke Stedan of Glisten" (requested by with typo)
This card, and another with an error "Count Duke Stedan of Glisten: OLDE...", came with a note point out the obvious typo.
Bloo also received:
"Count of the Spinward Marches: Spin 2036 Glisten", and
"Duke of the Spinward Marches: Spin 3124 Mora", which is proper format on its surface but - an end to the Matriarchy?

How should we deal with these?

 

[esampson]

By 'Noble lands material' are you referring to the section on world building where they list nobles depending on trade classifications?

Those are nobles present on the planet as Imperial representatives and their titles of nobility may be completely unrelated to the planet in question.

As far as what the patents mean when they say someone is a Duke of thus and such, I'm not sure. It's possible that that is in reference to where they have land holdings (in which case, as Charlie Brown would say, I got some rocks). Multiple nobles there wouldn't be in conflict either since even the largest land holdings are only a small part of a planet.

 

[PFVA63]

...
How should we deal with these?

Klingon Rite of Succession?

 

[Bloo]

By 'Noble lands material' are you referring to the section on world building where they list nobles depending on trade classifications?

P.96, Preferred worlds stuff, as revised.

 

[SpaceBadger]

"Duke of the Spinward Marches: Spin 3124 Mora", which is proper format on its surface but - an end to the Matriarchy?

IIRC, the Matriarchy is only the planetary government, not nobility on the Imperial level. I remember something about Norris moving the sector capital there after he became sector duke (or maybe it was his domain capital after becoming archduke), and co-existing with the Matriarch as they had completely different areas of responsibility.

 

[Drakon]

Pay Per View

Klingon Rite of Succession?

Oh! We could make a fortune making this a pay per view event.

 

[rancke]

IIRC, the Matriarchy is only the planetary government, not nobility on the Imperial level. I remember something about Norris moving the sector capital there after he became sector duke (or maybe it was his domain capital after becoming archduke), and co-existing with the Matriarch as they had completely different areas of responsibility.

Duchess of Mora is a different hat than Matriarch of Mora, sure, but it's a hat that automatically goes to the Matriarch. One of the examples of how practical politics sometimes blur the distinction between Imperial nobles and planetary rulers.


Hans

 

[arentol]

Time heals all wounds.

Simplest solution is to use time to resolve any conflicts.
The only way it would not work out is if you play in the same campaign together.

 

[Bloo]

Time heals all wounds.

Simplest solution is to use time to resolve any conflicts.
The only way it would not work out is if you play in the same campaign together.

Then why not just sell Emperor Strephon titles to backers?
"You get an empire, and you get an empire, and you get an empire!"</oprah>

I should have said I was thinking along the lines of what others have suggested of having a kind of shared TU quasi something.

I think the Mora card I got was not intentional and that the misprinted Duke Duke of Glisten was correct (it was requested and why I requested the knighthood of Bendor) - 'course, I don't know how MM is doing the patents.

 

[rancke]

I've been struggling real hard not to rain on anyone's parade these last months, but personally I fervently hope that Marc Miller intents these titles to be entirely a meta-feature. I like to think (and I believe it to be true) that this isn't just a matter of sour grapes and that I would feel the same way even if I had a title of my own[*].

[*] Unless it was top noble of Regina, of course; I wouldn't mind having a free hand to promulgate my vision of Regina. ​

As far as I'm concerned, the Duke of Regina is Norris, the Duchess of Mora is Delphine qua her position as the Matriarch of Mora, and the Duchess of Glisten is Avaraja.

Hans

 

[cuTTer]

To Boldly Go...

I've been struggling real hard not to rain on anyone's parade these last months, but personally I fervently hope that Marc Miller intents these titles to be entirely a meta-feature. I like to think (and I believe it to be true) that this isn't just a matter of sour grapes and that I would feel the same way even if I had a title of my own[*].

[*] Unless it was top noble of Regina, of course; I wouldn't mind having a free hand to promulgate my vision of Regina. ​

As far as I'm concerned, the Duke of Regina is Norris, the Duchess of Mora is Delphine qua her position as the Matriarch of Mora, and the Duchess of Glisten is Avaraja.

Hans

I thought all issued patents were Galaxiad era.

 

[Bloo]

As far as I'm concerned, the Duke of Regina is Norris, the Duchess of Mora is Delphine qua her position as the Matriarch of Mora, and the Duchess of Glisten is Avaraja.

I fully understand and tend to agree. My question is what date are the kickstarter patents for? It's easy enough to branch off a 'backer noble TU'.

Marc sold 12 Kickstarter Spinward Marches Dukedoms, which matches the number of Imperial Cp and Cs systems in the T5 1065 data.

You've posted this before:
Duchy of Regina: Duke Norris Aella Aledon.
Duchy of Mora: Duchess Delphine Adorania Muudashir. Sector duchess.
Duchy of Lunion: Duke Luis Adorania Jesten.
Duchy of Trin: Duchess Miraii Abani Arahailli.
Duchy of Rhylanor: Duke Leonard Stephanos Kirgashii.
Duchy of Glisten: Duchess Avaraja Astaarte Muktheswara.

How many of those are from GT? We've been told, from Don as I recall, that Marc doesn't consider GT Nobles canon.

 

[rancke]

I fully understand and tend to agree. My question is what date are the kickstarter patents for? It's easy enough to branch off a 'backer noble TU'.

It seems to be based on the 1105 UWPs. Or possibly the 1065 UWPs, but that isn't that much of a help.

Marc sold 12 Kickstarter Spinward Marches Dukedoms, which matches the number of Imperial Cp and Cs systems in the T5 1065 data.

But not the number of high noble dukes. Aramis the world is a marquisate under a Rhylanoran count (I've always assumed that Aramis subsector was divided between Regina, Rhylanor and Pretoria; YMMV). Jewell is a county answering to the Duke of Regina. Vilis might be a dukedom, but it would be a duke that had very little power vis-a-vis the Count of Vilis (I've always assumed that it used to have a duke located on Arden, but that when the duchy was gutted in the 3FW peace settlement, it became a county under Regina; YMMV). Lanth might be a dukedom, provided an emperor had wanted to emasculate a really bothersome duke by transferring him to a dukedom with a truly infinitissimal tax base (I've always assumed that it was divided between Regina, Lunion, and Rhylanor; YMMV). And Five Sisters is under naval administration, so any duke there would be lacking a job to do.

You've posted this before:
Duchy of Regina: Duke Norris Aella Aledon.
Duchy of Mora: Duchess Delphine Adorania Muudashir. Sector duchess.
Duchy of Lunion: Duke Luis Adorania Jesten.
Duchy of Trin: Duchess Miraii Abani Arahailli.
Duchy of Rhylanor: Duke Leonard Stephanos Kirgashii.
Duchy of Glisten: Duchess Avaraja Astaarte Muktheswara.

How many of those are from GT?

Duke Luis, Duchess Mirarii, Duke Leonard, and Duchess Avaraja (Well, Leonard is from the MT2 computer game, but that isn't much help with the canonicity issue ).

We've been told, from Don as I recall, that Marc doesn't consider GT Nobles canon.

Yes, and a great pity that is too. Writing up a setting as big as Charted Space is a big enough job without invalidating material that works perfectly well and having to do it over again. As I always say: "If it works, don't change it; if it doesn't work, do change it to something that works, and stick to that from then on."

I've no doubt Marc Miller believes his ideas for nobles are better than what Classic Traveller and GURPS Traveller have to say about them. I may even agree with him that they are better, once he gets around to telling us about them. But merely being better is IMO not sufficient justification for changing a setting that people have been slowly building up for 35 years. For that, the idea would have to be game-changingly brilliant. And I find it difficult to muster any expectations that the new version will be that brilliant.


Hans

 

[grondak]

When I find myself on Iderati for realz and have to flash my credit card, I am sure they will take it! The only problem I have is the card itself makes me feel like I am wearing a plastic halloween costume with the picture of the character on it by the way it has the Traveller logo on it!

http://www.designsfinds.com/catalog/h-1977c3pocostume.jpg

Thanks 1977!
Grondak

 

[PFVA63]

Oh! We could make a fortune making this a pay per view event.

Please stand for our national anthem ....

http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/xsewje/futurama-claw-plagh

 

[the.barwickian]

Klingon Rite of Succession?

Thunderdome rules. Not dissimilar to the Klingdon rite.

 

[warwizard]

I had seen the duplication of the Duke of glisten and merely dated mine to happen 10 years after his elevation.

 

[ken at sunrise]

I asked Marc about duplicate titles, here is his response:

There is the possibility of more than one person having the same nobility.

Perhaps you are from different era?
Perhaps the Emperor has given you each a Viscounty in hopes that one of you will raise the quality of the world and be elevated to Count?
Perhaps one is a forgery?
Perhaps this signifies eternal enmity between you and him?