No rules for FCS or BCS?

[mike wightman]

Cos it's Traveller

d66 is a thing so I can randomise a BCS in a few dice rolls and use the 6x6 matrix for damage allocation.

 

[RandyB]

Here's hoping that, when the rules eventually come out, they at least mention WCS - World Class Ships - too, even if they leave those vague. (Generation ships with populations of at least a million sophonts are more plot devices and locations in themselves than ships going from A to B.)

Traveller: Metamorphosis Alpha.

 

[coliver988]

Here's hoping that, when the rules eventually come out, they at least mention WCS - World Class Ships - too, even if they leave those vague. (Generation ships with populations of at least a million sophonts are more plot devices and locations in themselves than ships going from A to B.)

they would have to be vague and really only cover the basic ideas. That size of ship is more a location than a ship.

And do jump drives scale like that? I assume that would be part of the discussion: is there an ultimate limit to jump drive & volume? If not, could we create a jump drive big enough for a planet? And if so, where the heck would the fuel come from?!

 

[whulorigan]

they would have to be vague and really only cover the basic ideas. That size of ship is more a location than a ship.

And do jump drives scale like that? I assume that would be part of the discussion: is there an ultimate limit to jump drive & volume? If not, could we create a jump drive big enough for a planet? And if so, where the heck would the fuel come from?!

According to CT, the maximum Jump Displacement was about 1,000,000 dTon,

 

[Nathan Brazil]

is there an ultimate limit to jump drive & volume? If not, could we create a jump drive big enough for a planet? And if so, where the heck would the fuel come from?!

o:Are you trying to recreate the Doctor Who serial "The Pirate Planet"?:rofl:

TL 23 Planetary Core Energy Tap
The ability to harvest and direct the energy within planetary cores to meet the high energy demands of reality engineering.

If all you need is a planetary core for reality engineering. I'm confident it can power a simple jump drive. Unless the drive is going to trip over its own jump shadow...

 

[aramis]

According to CT, the maximum Jump Displacement was about 1,000,000 dTon,

That's just the largest hull with a code in HG (CT Bk5). There's no actual limit. But the needed computer has a TL...

The max in CT core is 5000.
Lettered drives cannot push more than 5K.

HG doesn't use maximum drive sizes by TL.

 

[mike wightman]

How big is the Sky Raiders' home?

 

[willtron3030]

o:Are you trying to recreate the Doctor Who serial "The Pirate Planet"?:rofl:

"The Wandering Earth", perhaps.

 

[ThornPlutonius]

You want Spin-Dizzies to move a planet-sized object.

 

[RandyB]

they would have to be vague and really only cover the basic ideas. That size of ship is more a location than a ship.

And do jump drives scale like that? I assume that would be part of the discussion: is there an ultimate limit to jump drive & volume? If not, could we create a jump drive big enough for a planet? And if so, where the heck would the fuel come from?!

Its own oceans... for the first jump, at least.

 

[coliver988]

Its own oceans... for the first jump, at least.

but think of the fish! and the dolphins who are actually running the place as a giant computer!

 

[BRover]

You want Spin-Dizzies to move a planet-sized object.

Yep. Even if it's only a small planet--a dwarf planet?

And then there's Blish's Bethe Blaster--I wonder what sort of weapon that is. Likely a spinal mount, but who knows?

 

[Sebastion Russ]

Its own oceans... for the first jump, at least.

No way any amount of ocean could power any drive greater than jump 1, and only if 50% of the ship's volume (and mass) were taken up by water. The Pplant uses hydrogen only, and water is an extremely inefficient hydrogen storage medium, even heavy water. (H2o, O-16 standard, assuming heavy water made with H-2, 20% of the water is hydrogen). Bonus points, Pure heavy water is extremely toxic to all life. you can safely drink 10ish ml. One accidental swallow of 'seawater' will put you in the hospital.

Hence my earlier suggestion of hydrogen storage between two cylinders, a habitation cylinder and a superstructure cylinder. Friction between the spinning cylinder and the hydrogen storage is easy enough to counter with force, and the thermal mass of the hydrogen should help prevent overheating although the pressures involved are frightening. it would help the superstructure be more resistant to impacts though. Thin walled pressure vessels are great.

PS: I am a firm believer in any WCS being a spun cylinder(s). Its just the most cost-effective solution, as a traditional deck layout would be ridiculously material intensive per volume to anything cylindrical/spherical. It also allows for more open volume, which is pretty critical to long-term habitation and mental health.

 

[coliver988]

...
PS: I am a firm believer in any WCS being a spun cylinder(s). Its just the most cost-effective solution, as a traditional deck layout would be ridiculously material intensive per volume to anything cylindrical/spherical. It also allows for more open volume, which is pretty critical to long-term habitation and mental health.

But I have the Star Wars Death Star Technical Manuel, and while just moon-sized, it is a decked sphere A LOT of decks....

Not sure I would apply costs to anything that sized: the entire local culture is wrapped up in it & I doubt accountants have much to say at that point. "No, sorry, get the single-ply toilet paper. We'll save millions of credits at that volume!"

 

[mike wightman]

18,000kg of water occupies 18 cubic metres.
2,000kg of this water is hydrogen.

So water stores 2,000kg of hydrogen in 18 cubic metres.

Liquid hydrogen stores 2,000kg of hydrogen in 28 cubic metres.

So you are actually better off storing your hydrogen as water rather than liquid hydrogen if containment volume is to be kept at a minimum.

Oh, and water made with deuterium is not toxic to humans unless you replace 25%-50% of all the water in your body with it. There are more dietary substances such as minerals and vitamins that will kill you at much lower doses than heavy water ingestion.

 

[Condottiere]

The fuel processor carbonizes the hydrogen for that bubbly effect.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Its own oceans... for the first jump, at least.

Yeah, we're going to need every bit of ice from your asteroid belt to refuel. Hope you don't mind -- not that we care, but we'd rather not have to get pushy about it.

 

[Sebastion Russ]

But I have the Star Wars Death Star Technical Manuel, and while just moon-sized, it is a decked sphere A LOT of decks....

Not sure I would apply costs to anything that sized: the entire local culture is wrapped up in it & I doubt accountants have much to say at that point. "No, sorry, get the single-ply toilet paper. We'll save millions of credits at that volume!"

I said cylindrical/spherical for a reason. It would be even more space efficient than a rotating cylinder if you used artificial gravity. And you are totally right about local culture. Someone made the Spruce Goose, a massive wooden plane. There is no accounting for taste. Although I will argue you on the single-ply. That is EXACTLY the sort of stupid cutting that would occur in this scenario, if TP still exists.

However, heat is the real killer for megastructures. simply the body heat of a billion people would be a real problem to dissipate, and a moonlet sized spheroid is going to have a tough time shedding all operational heat through radiation unless they are far, far away from a star. Its an area where the old fashioned long rectangular ship design actually excels.

I could see the Life Star bouncing around in a nebula, where it would be much easier to shed heat through limited convection, and where it could slowly refill its tanks without having to dive into a gravity well, or send a fleet of tankers to slowly drain a gas giant.

 

[Sebastion Russ]

18,000kg of water occupies 18 cubic metres.
2,000kg of this water is hydrogen.

So water stores 2,000kg of hydrogen in 18 cubic metres.

Liquid hydrogen stores 2,000kg of hydrogen in 28 cubic metres.

So you are actually better off storing your hydrogen as water rather than liquid hydrogen if containment volume is to be kept at a minimum.

Oh, and water made with deuterium is not toxic to humans unless you replace 25%-50% of all the water in your body with it. There are more dietary substances such as minerals and vitamins that will kill you at much lower doses than heavy water ingestion.

I stand corrected on the density of water and hydrogen. I am unsure how you would perform the mass, rapid Electrolysis necessary to facility the overclocking required to jump...but the numbers work out in theory.

And you are correct about heavy water...to a point. It wont kill you until you get into that range, but you will start suffering the effects of radiation poisoning much, much sooner than that. Which is weird, because heavy water is really not that radioactive.

Anyway, you get to 25% and you will be sterile. You hit 20 and you will have a really bad time, but will survive. A cupful you probably wont notice, unless you are unusually sensitive (hard to know unless you have tried it). I do admit that my 10ml statement before was based on old info from early college, and from a questionable professor. In hindsight, he probably just wanted to keep the frats from doing something really, really stupid.

Edit: Didnt even mention the heat effects. Water would be AMAZING for preventing overheating, and if you could do the rapid Electrolysis, you would end up with a massive amount of spare oxygen that you could bleed off into space to cool the hab. Its a pretty great idea, if you can make it work. The spin-up time to jump would be massive, as would the necessary internal facilities, but I concede that it is a damn fine idea.