New Alternative TNE Weapons

[Theophilus]

Does anyone have any ideas for alternative weapons for TNE?

Lasers, Particle Accelerators (PAW's and Mesons) and Missiles were the only choices given in the original TNE.

Starfires Force and Primary beams (focused Gravity)
Disruptors (MT)
Alternative Energy weapons rules restoring energy weapons to TNE.
Smaller bays PA's

Restore Repulsors to defences.(stated as being useful against missiles and small craft)
{this would go along with starfires gravity based weaponry and TNE's manipulators}

Anything along these line?

 

[Badbru]

The only "alternative" weapons I thought about building were mass drivers/VRFgauss weapons. I thought of using them as anti missile point defence weapons by disregarding the section in the design sequence rules in FF&S that says they have an upper limmit of 6000meters per second. I read this as an "in an atmosphere" limmit, which space isn't. In any event though the space combat ranges used in TNE seem to be longer than those used in other versions of Traveller. What are the ranges of plasma and fusion guns in other Traveller systems? I don't think it'd be easy to get TNE plasma or Fusion weapons to reach 30,000km
as an extreem range let alone something better.

 

[aramis]

I agree about the gravitic weapons, since HG2 included repusors and tractors (Tractors being higher tech than repulsors, BTW. THis is why I assumed that gravitic thrusters use planets as reaction mass...)

Another good hook, assuming one can come up with the unobtanim for the shells, is the Willygun from sten. (A shell of magnetic material, say, positive end in, negative out, and floating inside are antimatter balls...)

Also kind of cool are "Scramblers": a weapon which generates a tuned EMP designed to interfere specifically with brainwaves...

 

[cougashika]

If I remember correctly, there was awrite-up on alternative weapons in an old issue of JTAS. It had your exotic energy weapons and one of my favourites, the ionised pulse projector. Me, I graduated from the H. Beam Piper Institue for Debunking High Energy Weapons, mostly due to my experiences in the Army, and from firmly believing that projectile and missile weapons are the most efficient systems for delivering kinetic energy, mayhem and large holes to a target.

 

[Malenfant]

Ever been on the receiving end of a nuke? (well, technically, that is a "high energy weapon", it's just one that happened to be delivered in a missile or bomb...)

 

[Antony]

Point singularity weapons?

 

[mike wightman]

That made me think, how about the weapon systems from the Alternity Starships and Warships books?
They should be easy enough to convert across

 

[TheDS]

As he pointed out, kinetic energy is the most efficient (known) method of imparting destruction to a target. For the most part, if you want to use something besides a gun, you're going to have to make your weapon bigger than an equivalent-damage gun.

That doesn't mean that some things are not more vulnerable to some forms of energy than others, of course. Indeed, the usefulness of light-swift beams makes them highly desireable for trying to hit targets that are beyond visual range (regarding space combat, at least). The relative inefficiency is more than made up for by the greater capability.

This is like saying that infantry is the most efficient use of your military dollar, but you can do plenty of things with aircraft that infantry can't do (yet). Their added capabilities more than make up for their lower efficiency.

So how many ways are there to impart lethal energy to a target? Plenty.

Light (lasers)
X-rays (xasers)
Microwaves (masers)
Disintegration by charge suppression
Disintegration by strong-force negation (a lot harder)
Particle streams (hydrogen atmos, anti-hydrogen atoms, mesons, neutrinos/antineutrinos, etc)
Nuclear radiation (usually delivered by nuke, but can also be in the form of a powder or just thrown in chunks, kind of like DU shells that weren't depleted)
Gravity waves (crush your target)
Jump Projector
Plasma projector
Fusion projector (standard FGMP or throw a hydrogen pellet at some one and then lase it)
Lightning (tricky)
Heat (flamethrower, "heat ray", flare gun)
Cold (liquid helium spray, probably not useful against armor)
Poison (chemical)
Bioagent
Nano-Dissassembler (nasty stuff!)
Acid (natural or unnatural)
EMPs (usually delivered by nuke)
Flashy lights tuned to the nervous system of the target species (imparts epileptic convulsions)
And the ever-popular: throwing a gas-giant at your home star (not as hard as a lot of fantasy equipment, like singularity guns and exotic-energy weapons.

I'm sure there are plenty more. Most of these things are going to give no benefit, or be impossible or impractical, like differentiating between NOTAR technologies for helicopters. Only one is really needed, the others are mostly different ways to acheive the same thing. So pick a couple things you like and stick with them; no need to have 100 different ways to do one thing when 5 is plenty.

 

[Theophilus]

Okay, Good so far. now let's see some design's and rules.

Lets start with gravity weapons:
Gravitic Lensing begins at TL9, (In tne).
Earlier versions had Repulsors (gravity used to sheer or impact smallcraft/missiles) at TL12
Tractors appeared at TL14
TNE has manipulators (tractors) at TL16.

Gravity: we know it exists, It seems to travel at the speed of light (or faster), We can manipulate it. Now How do we make it into a TNE usable weapon? like starfire's Force Beam, rapidly impart velocity change (push/pull) to damage enemy ship. Or Primary Beam, focus a 5cm beam of gravity and puncture/slash enemy ships causing damage?

Next Disintegrator/Disruptor:
Nuclear dampers interfere with nuclear force at TL12, Disentegrators appeared at TL16. Design a usable weapon.

Energy Weapons: a 30,000 km range weapon IS designable under the TNE rules, however, if I understand correctly there is nothing to hold the plasma together in space and the energy disipates too quickly to make an effective weapon. Can we creates a "gravity tunnel" or use nuclear damper type technology to create a channel to focus the plasma long enough to reach a target?

Any thoughts?

 

[Antony]

As far as using the TNE Tractor Bays, my version of the TL14 Regal BC has 100ton bays with the following stats;
41,772Tt Tractor Bay 1:139tonnes 2:70tonnes 4:35tonnes 8:17tonnes

How strong is your hull if two or more of these focus on your ship and move in slightly different directions. The rules give us the toughness of hull materials, what about their resistance to shear.

Eg at a range of 60,000km to of the above bays, linked via MFD hit your ships then diverge their beams so that the ship is subjected to opposed forces like so
<70 tonnes <SHIP> 70 tonnes >

What does that do to the hull. It is not the sort of stress a hull is designed to take. Will it give?

 

[Straybow]

There's a thread over in the Imperial Research Station, Tractor Beams/Gravitic Weapons... and why not?

 

[spank]

I always thought it would be neat to have a rocket pistol, very space opera. I did try and design a lo-tech pistol for star viking use a 20mm revolver, but ff&s limited it to 4 shot, and it was inordiantley huge.

 

[Straybow]

I think "inordinately huge" is exactly the description of a 20mm revolver.

 

[spank]

That was kind of the point

 

[TheDS]

Yeah, but you made it sound like you were disappointed, as if you expected it to be tiny. Stupid physics!

 

[spank]

Well I didn't like that it was only 4 shots, a revolver shouldn't have to have a set number of shots, want more? use a larger cylinder, The length was excessive I thought 26 inches is more than huge for a revolver. That's just the reciever you still have to add a barrel and all the rest of the gun, a 10 gauge shotgun isn't that long the {reciever I mean} and this is what a 20 mm would be.

 

[far-trader]

I found the FF&S1 weapon design system to break badly for anything much outside the designers' percieved average. A hand cannon such as you describe is well outside that average and so as you note some of the items seem silly.

As for the maximum rounds in a cylinder, again that's based on an idea, basically that a revolver is something you can holster, if the cylinder gets too big that becomes awkward. At least that's my guess for the reasoning.

That also factors for the length of the receiver and barrel, totalled for the bulk (iirc I figured a bulk of 1 or 2 could be open holstered but a bulk of 0 was required for concealed carry).

I'm more curious what the weight of that pig was? It seems like it would be a beast to raise and hold on target in one hand. And if you need two hands why not make it a carbine or rifle and get all the added benefits from those designs?

And you want to make it heavier by adding a larger cylinder? Just what is the design purpose of this weapon supposed to be?

 

[spank]

It was supposed to be a lo-tech alteritive to plasma fusion and lasers for the Star Vikings, the ones in Power Armor, some of the idea is that it was a pyscological deterent, and a badge of rank also.

 

[far-trader]

OK, the first time I read that I took it to mean shooting at Star Vikings in BD and thought, "Not much chance of hurting them with a pistol of any size."

Now I read it as being used, or at least worn for status, by leading Star Vikings. That works, it doesn't even need to be that effective, just impressive

Don't know if anybody's interested but I might pass some time now by doing a couple quick designs, for old times sake

 

[ganymede]

I like playing with the low end of things... 10mm Fusion pistols and such... try that with rockets & see what you get. Don't forget to design it as a multi-shot missile launcher! Also, if anyone has decided to access them, GURPS (excuse me!) & 3G are fast & loose with the physics of everything as tech goes higher, and they use actual energy units (joules & such) before laying it down in game terms.... And finally, from the real-world research I'm looking into, our view of physics is SOOOO 19th century! Try fudging up the power levels of your energy sources &/or tweak down the fuel consumption, as the Fuel Conglomerates slowly lose power to other Megacorps.