Nepotism: Regarding Nobles

[gchuck]

The way I understand it; Offspring of the particular Noble are 'entitled/endowed' to hold a lesser rank than the aforementioned noble. (I have included 'lawfully adopted' people to be included in this theory in my campaign)

Question; Is there an actual/perceived negative to nobles assigning 'children' to 'appropriate' nobility status and holdings in their own realm?

 

[whulorigan]

Well, in the OTU Imperium, all children of a Noble are considered noble as well, much like many historical European aristocracies, and unlike the British peerage. So the children would not in fact be "appropriating" anything if they were being granted some type of subordinate administrative authority by the title holder.

Noble lands and title are often scattered far and wide (and in Traveller that can mean across several worlds that are weeks of travel time away. So somebody needs to be running the shop or administering the estates "hands-on" locally, since the title-holder cannot be everywhere at once. So you either hire someone on as an overseer or administrator or you entrust the task to a trusted retainer (preferably of the gentry or other untitled aristocracy lesser than yourself, if possible), or you entrust it to a worthy family-member (who bears a courtesy title derived from your own).

And remember, Nobles do not have a "Realm" per se, they have land grant(s) or tangible/intangible properties and estates, which may include land grants associated with enfeoffment and some administrative authority or position, but is not a given.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Is there an actual/perceived negative to nobles assigning 'children' to 'appropriate' nobility status and holdings in their own realm?

Depends on the children ... and their parents.

Imperial Nobility is set up to be an inherited aristocracy kind of dynastic system. Children inherit the social status of their parents -1.
So in terms of "delegation of authorities" along dynastic lines (to Keep It In The Family™) is definitely a defining factor in the Third Imperium (and presumably Vilani culture before then, which is where the nobility system originated from).

Personnel = Policy ... whether you're dealing with nepo babies or elected officials or career bureaucrats.

The thing is, there's always going to be "more eligible participants" in the game of nobility than there will be seats in the game of musical chairs. So although "incompetence" can be rewarded with privilege ... the costs of doing so will result eventually (if not immediately) in a trajectory towards decline/ruin/replacement by competitors.

"Well almost all government policy is WRONG, but ... frightfully well carried out."

 

[Grognard_1]

As a Dane, with one of the oldest monarchies in the world, inherited status feels entirely familiar even if not something I'd design from scratch. Ours are mostly ceremonial at this point, so the stakes are low. But it does make the Traveller nobility system feel intuitive rather than alien.

 

[Condottiere]

It's sort of hardwired in our genes, to give direct and indirect relatives a headstart.

And then a push.

We rationalize it as having more loyal and compliant subordinates.

 

[Spinward Flow]

We rationalize it as having more loyal and compliant subordinates.

Have you SEEN what "kids these days" turn into?!?!?

"Compliant" would not be my first choice of term ...

 

[Condottiere]

Once well paying positions become harder to secure, and requires polishing up the old boys network.

 

[whulorigan]

As a Dane, with one of the oldest monarchies in the world, inherited status feels entirely familiar even if not something I'd design from scratch. Ours are mostly ceremonial at this point, so the stakes are low. But it does make the Traveller nobility system feel intuitive rather than alien.

It is also one of the reasons over here across the Pond so many players have a difficulty understanding Imperial Nobility. They (we) cannot separate the idea of the "title" and a "job" in their (our) minds; i.e. the difference between a "legal Social Status" and an appointment or posting to a government job or position.

 

[bookwyrm]

the difference between a "legal Social Status" and an appointment or posting to a government job or position.

This kind of reminds me of 'The Initiate Brother' & 'Gatherer of Clouds' by Sean Russel.'

You have the nobility who are in charge of everything with heirs who take over after aging out or death, and functionaries who are nobility in name who run various departments of the government, and lose their nobility if fired from the department they were in charge of. A functionaries nobility isn't transferred to their offspring unless the offspring is groomed to take over and is capable, and hopefully no other contenders.

 

[Spinward Flow]

i.e. the difference between a "legal Social Status" and an appointment or posting to a government job or position.

Hence why I (personally) see a distinction between Social Status: B+ (denoting "respectability" and character reputation/connections) and the Noble career path (LBB S4) ... the latter of which is required to find a Position/Posting as a Noble representative of the Emperor to the many (autonomous) worlds within the Third Imperium.

Kind of like how you "have to join the army to be an army veteran" ... you have to have taken up the Noble career path (at some point) and successfully rolled for Position before you become {insert noble title} {insert mainworld name}.

• Knight Boughene (SS: B)
• Baron Kinorb (SS: C)
• Marquis Aramis (SS: D)
• Count Efate (SS: E)
• Duke Regina (SS: F)

... you get the idea.
People who take up the Noble career path but fail to achieve Position are basically "staff" to someone else who HAS achieved Position (until they can achieve Position themselves).

Achieving Promotion on the Noble career path is where the "game of musical chairs" comes in, because someone has to depart before someone new can come in and take their place ... and there's always going to be more "applicants" for Positions than there are postings that need to be filled.

 

[whulorigan]

Hence why I (personally) see a distinction between Social Status: B+ (denoting "respectability" and character reputation/connections) and the Noble career path (LBB S4) ... the latter of which is required to find a Position/Posting as a Noble representative of the Emperor to the many (autonomous) worlds within the Third Imperium.

Kind of like how you "have to join the army to be an army veteran" ... you have to have taken up the Noble career path (at some point) and successfully rolled for Position before you become {insert noble title} {insert mainworld name}.

• Knight Boughene (SS: B)
• Baron Kinorb (SS: C)
• Marquis Aramis (SS: D)
• Count Efate (SS: E)
• Duke Regina (SS: F)

... you get the idea.
People who take up the Noble career path but fail to achieve Position are basically "staff" to someone else who HAS achieved Position (until they can achieve Position themselves).

Achieving Promotion on the Noble career path is where the "game of musical chairs" comes in, because someone has to depart before someone new can come in and take their place ... and there's always going to be more "applicants" for Positions than there are postings that need to be filled.

*THIS*

 

[whulorigan]

This kind of reminds me of 'The Initiate Brother' & 'Gatherer of Clouds' by Sean Russel.'

You have the nobility who are in charge of everything with heirs who take over after aging out or death, and functionaries who are nobility in name who run various departments of the government, and lose their nobility if fired from the department they were in charge of. A functionaries nobility isn't transferred to their offspring unless the offspring is groomed to take over and is capable, and hopefully no other contenders.

Except that in the Imperial System, you do not lose your noble title/status when relived of your government posting. The Social Status and the Posting are separate. The one qualfles you to hold the other; it does not define the other.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Except that in the Imperial System, you do not lose your noble title/status when relived of your government posting.

Former presidents are still referred to as "Mr. President" even if they are no longer in post.
Same deal for senators and congressmen ... although the word "former" is often attached at some point in the conversation for clarity.
It's kind of like being a Professor Emeritus (sorta).

You had the posting previously, but you are not the current occupant of that government posting.
But even if you're no longer "in post" as an official, you still carry your social standing/rank with you when you leave that posting ... and someone else assumes that post position in the present.

So even if you've retired ... you're still "respectable" (and known) for what you did while you were "in post" on the career path.

Once a marine, always a marine ... as the saying goes.

Kind of the same deal here, although you're dealing with an analogy to fit the details.

 

[whulorigan]

So even if you've retired ... you're still "respectable" (and known) for what you did while you were "in post" on the career path.

Once a marine, always a marine ... as the saying goes.

Kind of the same deal here, although you're dealing with an analogy to fit the details.

The subtle difference would be that the Noble Title has a legal standing with attached rights and privileges, whereas the ex-President example has the high commoner social standing privileges extended as a courtesy.

 

[Spinward Flow]

The subtle difference would be that the Noble Title has a legal standing with attached rights and privileges, whereas the ex-President example has the high commoner social standing privileges extended as a courtesy.

Ah ... but ... there is only one President at a time ... (or at least, that should be the case ) ... even if former Presidents (and future ones waiting to be sworn into office) are alive and accessible. What's important is the OFFICE ... not the person currently occupying that office ... and the Peaceful Transfer of Responsibilities between occupants of that office.

Once a Noble (deliberately capitalized, meaning career path, achieved Position) ... always a Noble.
The oaths you take to assume your post, remain binding even after you leave your post.

Kind of like how an oath to "protect and defend a constitution" of a nation as a member of that nation's military ... doesn't exactly have an expiration date on it when you take off the uniform and muster out from service.

Nobles who have achieved Position (let alone been successfully Promoted!) will have "more recognition" than most people, once they "stop re-enlisting" in the Noble career path and effectively "muster out" of their career into private life ... turning over the posting/office to a successor/someone else (who becomes the new official posted to that office). Most Nobles are what amount to public officials, of varying levels of celebrity/notoriety ... so even after they "muster out" from the career of being a Noble "in post" they're still going to have all the formal/informal "clout" that their social standing (B+) would offer to anyone else of equal social standing. However, there may be a "first among equals" factor going on depending on how they comported themselves while they were career Nobles before mustering out from service to become a private citizen.

"Your reputation precedes you, Mr. Bond."