multiple service careers

[redwalker]

I looked at the T20 book and noted that one can level up in various classes.

This shocked me, as I am only familiar with Classic Traveller.

For some reason, we always played such that each character was only allowed a single branch of the services. In our campaigns, no one was allowed to start off in the Army and switch to the Navy. I looked through my rulebooks for a rule forbidding this, but I couldn't find any mention of the practice, pro or con.

Was the practice specifically illegal in Classic Traveller? Was T20 the first official use of multi-classed character generation?

Thanks.

 

[far-trader]

<edit>

I think it was the letter of the rule for CT. I thought it was MT that introduced multiple career paths with a penalty for enlisting in secondary and further careers but I don't see it now so maybe it was TNE or T4? Or maybe it was just an old house rule?

Yep, TNE, rolled into what they called Continuation Rolls and Changing Careers. Basically at the end of each term you made a Continuation Roll (2d6) and if greater than your current terms you may continue. If you changed careers you had to apply a -1 to the roll. I think we took it to mean a cumulative -1 to the roll for multiple career changes but that seems to have been a house rule.

 

[hunter]

It is a change from CT, but one that made sense to me. When I served in the Army, I knew more than a few folks who had served in another branch of the service (mostly Navy), got out, and then joined the Army. I went through infantry Basic and AIT with a bubblehead (submariner). Those dolphins got him lots of strange looks when he was in his Class A uniform.

Hunter

 

[far-trader]

Yes and it wasn't that long ago that the norm was to have a nice secure lifetime commitment to a single career, so that may have influenced M.W.M. in the CT model. Or maybe it was just for simplicity.

In any case the norm now is multiple careers. I agree it makes sense, as long as the player and/or referee can come up with a backstory to support it. I find it enchances the character's depth. Heck I'd probably use it for CT too unless the game was just a one-off.

 

[mike wightman]

Changing career was introduced in Traveller 2300 as an official part of character generation. I think changing career once was a house rule for a lot of people (I allowed it in CT and later in MT). Then along came TNE, which borrowed a lot from 2300 , and changing career became a Traveller option as well.

I like the way T20 handles prior history, it gives you a great deal of background upon which to build the character and there is a lot of choise in how you build up the character's class levels. Once you get your head around it, that is

 

[flykiller]

military career changes typically involve personnel shortages and attempts to fill them. they can also come about via the reserves or guard.

 

[Elliot]

A Q&A in TD17 discussed rules for naval characters studying at both medical and flight school but I dont think anything was ever published on switching careers.

IM experience most ref's allowed if a character could justify it.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I think that in Traveller, it's easier to justify a transition between Navy and Marine, or Marine and Army, than Navy and Army. Certainly it can be done, it's just easier to do it between the others.

Also, transition between Navy and Scouts is pretty easy.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I think MT allowed Solomani to have multiple careers.

 

[jackleg]

In the Traveller Adventure book, the Vagr pc could have multiple careers. In CT I think they were the only ones who could.

 

[BetterThanLife]

When I was in the Army I went through Language school with a weirder one. The guy had his CIB (Combat Infantry Badge) but he wore his SEAL badge above it. Looked rather cool in Class A's but our CO didn't like the idea of anything having a higher precedence than a CIB.) He had gotten out then decided he didn't like being a civilian and joine the Army. (Only guy I ever met with Seal Badge, Ranger Tab and SF Tab. Though I am sure there are quite a few SEALS that have been through both Ranger School and the Q-Course.)Half his uniforms had the Ranger Tab the other half SF. Back then you couldn't wear both on the same uniform.) Definitely not a guy you would want to be on the wrong side with in a bar fight or in a dark alley.

It happens in the real world. It should be allowed in the game. I definitely miss the Service Academies in T20 though. I think T20 should have Ring Knockers. Virtually every major military through out history and in virtually all the SF fiction there have been dedicated service academies. T20 needs them as well. I also found that the T20 service careers lacks the typical SOF skills as class skills. (The Intel skills are missing as well.) To create a typical SOF trooper you are virtually required to change careers in T20.

Originally posted by hunter:
It is a change from CT, but one that made sense to me. When I served in the Army, I knew more than a few folks who had served in another branch of the service (mostly Navy), got out, and then joined the Army. I went through infantry Basic and AIT with a bubblehead (submariner). Those dolphins got him lots of strange looks when he was in his Class A uniform.

Hunter

 

[DaveChase]

Neat idea Bhoins,
Maybe a new supplement that could be some what like the front half of LBB 5.

I know lots of officers and most of them did either OCS or ROTC but very few of them did West Point (referring Army here).

Having Academies would be a great supplement if you wanted to adventure/play in a military/political setting.

I do not think that the individuals from academies should get more skill but they should get bonuses to certain skill and/or reputation and/or status.

Dave

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Bhoins:

It happens in the real world. It should be allowed in the game. I definitely miss the Service Academies in T20 though. I think T20 should have Ring Knockers. Virtually every major military through out history and in virtually all the SF fiction there have been dedicated service academies. T20 needs them as well. I also found that the T20 service careers lacks the typical SOF skills as class skills. (The Intel skills are missing as well.) To create a typical SOF trooper you are virtually required to change careers in T20.

See prior thread here.
There is OTC but it's not quite the same. Still it could be used as a model for service academies. Really all you need is how to get in, how to succeed, and how much XP bonus etc. you get from it. Then spend the XP like normal.

Bribery, gather information, liason, sense motive, and spot are class skills for Army and Marine classes. A common house rule (as in I didn't even notice this wasn't standard d20 practice until last month) is to keep class skills as such when multiclassing even if they aren't class skills for the current class.

If needed take the Hobby feat (for disguise say) or just houserule that that character has x skill as a class skill due to their training. If you need more detail perhaps a level or more of Professional and/or Rogue. You could always make up a P/ Intelligence skill or have one or more K/ skills to indicate specific specialities. No need to switch careers in prior history IMO.

Back in the day the group I played CT with skipped around career wise during chargen not reading the rules closely enough.

Casey
[EDIT] cleared up post [/EDIT]

 

[Pagan priest]

You should also remember that skills can be gained as cross class skills, it is just more expensive that way.

 

[Pagan priest]

To continue the trip down memory lane, one of the Navy guys I gamed with way back in the early 80's, had been a Marine in 'Nam

 

[Rotters2]

Probably re-hashing a lot of previous posts, but it's quite common in the ADF (Australian Defence Forces) for people to transfer from one service to the other. Three of my best mates from the Navy are now in the RAAF.

(Just wanted to put my two-bob's worth in)

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

You may wish to rember that when CT was first writen most people stayed in the same induristy (if not company) for all ther working lifes after leaving education or aperitiships. so the game reflected the cluture of the time that in your 50 odd years of working adult life you may have changed "Careers" once or twice period baring any dermatic life or world event(eg. a war) so the characters are just enbarking on their secound job or retierment at start of play (merchents are usualy just seting up their owen bisuness)

 

[BetterThanLife]

There is more to service academies than a few skills. Matter of fact, ROTC at the right school and you had more skills, but there is something about a Ring Knocker, as those of us that have served in the US Army, Navy or Marines refer to them, (Not sure about the Zoomies (Air Force) They are in a world all their own.) they are generally beter disciplined and are virtually guaranteed to make it to O5, (Lieutenant Colonel in the Army and Marines Commander in the Navy) and virtually guaranteed to be able to do 20 years before being asked to leave. Further they get promoted faster than anyone else. OCS is another animal. Mustangs, or whatever you want to call them serve as enlisted first and are usually some of the brightest of the officers when it comes to things tactical. They also know how to get things done in the "Real Army" (Substitute your favorite branch of service) that can't be taught in the classroom. They are also older and more mature than your typical officer.

You will find that the Majority of officers above the rank of O5 are academy graduates, not all of them by any stretch of the imagination, (and as I recall Colin Powell was ROTC) but the majority. Since Academy Graduates are only a small percentage of officers in O1 through O3 that is definitely saying something. It isn't just the skills you pick up at Hudson High (US Army Slang for West Point.

) the ring opens doors on the ladder of success. (After all Patton finished very low in his graduating class but still got his first command right out of West Point. (Young 2LT Patton's first command was he was left in command of Ft. Riley, KS while most of the Post went to chase Indians after that incident (misunderstanding? what is politically correct for that anyway.

) at Little Big Horn.

)

 

[Rotters2]

A very interesting post Bhoins. We have a similar sort of thing in the ADF. There's the seperate training acadamies (Creswell - RAN, Duntroon - ARA, and somewhere else for the RAAF - but they don't really count

). And then there's the ADFA - Australian Defence Force Academy - which is for the 'book-worm' officers.

Ther only thing I saw in your post is that you used the words 'mature' and 'officer' in the same sentence... errr... are you SURE you got that bit right????

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually when talking about OCS, yes I did use mature and officer in the same sentence connected to each other intentionally.

However in most cases I would agree with you.

Matter of fact I knew one Sergeant that went to OCS just because he liked the look of a few of our female Lieutenants. It obviously isn't always the case.

Because most OCS graduates are at least Sergeants/Petty Officers before attending OCS. More likely they have made it to E6 (Staff Sergeant.) At least in the US military.

Originally posted by Rotters2:
A very interesting post Bhoins. We have a similar sort of thing in the ADF. There's the seperate training acadamies (Creswell - RAN, Duntroon - ARA, and somewhere else for the RAAF - but they don't really count

). And then there's the ADFA - Australian Defence Force Academy - which is for the 'book-worm' officers.

Ther only thing I saw in your post is that you used the words 'mature' and 'officer' in the same sentence... errr... are you SURE you got that bit right????