MT Tac Missile addenda (paging Aramis?)

[DonM]

For years, I've just assumed that the MTJ #3 reference would be fine... until I actually needed it.

So, I'm looking at what's in MTJ #3, and it's a single TAC Missile, and the rules are very incomplete.

So, if I can find a Striker expert in the house (Aramis?), I'd like to solve this little issue permanently.

Here's what we have at the moment:

The MT-112a, known as the “Buzzbomb” due to the sound made by its gravitic propulsion system, is a multi-purpose tactical missile for use in surface-to-surface or surface-to-air combat. It can be launched at targets within the operator’s line of sight or released to search out and destroy targets contained in its preprogrammed memory. Additionally, an electronic map can be fed into the on-board memory allowing the MT-112A to function as a cruise missile. This missile is equally effective against ground and air targets and uses passive sensors to guide to its target.

Maximum cruise speed is 1,000kph and maximum cruise duration is 10 minutes. Dash speeds of 2,000kph are possible, although total flight time is limited to 1 minute. A so-called “clean nuke”, the warhead is a subcritical fusion device equivalent to 50 tons of TNT. It can be set to act either as a shape charge or an omnidirectional blast.

The shape charge setting will put a one meter hole in anything with an armor value of under 50, and will break the environmental integrity of anything with a 51-60 value. It does 250 points of damage. The danger space is 30 in the direction it was fired from and 75 in the direction of travel. The blast setting will flatten any construct with an armor value of less than 30 within 0.5 kilometers. From 0.5 – 1.0 km, anything with armor value of less than 10 is severely damaged. Anyone standing between 1.0 – 1.5 km will be knocked down and take 15 points of damage. Radiation exposure is minimal.

To launch a buzzbomb:
Routine, Dex, Int, Instant

To preprogram a buzzbomb’s memory:
Routine, Computer, Navigation, 6 min.
Referee: Preprogrammed targets can include specific buildings and associated maps and/or specific vehicle classes (i.e., Zhodani grav tanks or Vargr APCs).

To repair a damaged buzzbomb sight:
[varies], Electronics, Edu, [varies]
Referee: Difficulty depends on damage level. Use the standard damage and repair guidelines. Time increments for shop repairs are as follows:
Superficial damage: 2 minutes.
Minor damage: 5 minutes.
Major damage: 3 hours.
Destroyed: 6 hours.

 

[aramis]

Use the 10cm warheads for CPR guns as your basis for DF TacMissiles. (that's what Striker does).

Add thrust in the form of propellant.

Your tasks look fine.

 

[DonM]

It just seems like there's a lot missing, or I'm just missing how this should fit into the existing rulebook.

 

[jec10]

I think Aramis has previously indicated that he is not a big CT/Striker player.

Not sure what he is trying to say in his post - not clear where his idea of 10cm CPR rounds comes from, certainly not CT/Striker.

As I've said on other threads, I don't think MTJ 3 provides any real basis for comprehensive tac missile use in MT. The 'buzz bomb' is not really a tac missile (looks more like what CT/Striker would describe as a drone missile), it has an vague nuclear-ish warhead, and undefined propulsion (beyond 'grav').

If you were to include tac missiles in MT, you'd have to go back to the CT/Striker rules (both the design sequences and the wargame rules) and somehow convert to MT. I don't think this would be an easy task (which is maybe why DGP didn't even attempt it).

 

[DonM]

Then I'll update the Errata accordingly, with a reference that the MTJ #3 missiles are not appropriate.

 

[aramis]

Somewhere is a reference that Tac Missiles are 10cm. Thus the 10cm DF CPR warheads are appropriate.

Next step is to build the rocket to carry it...

I've always treated Tac Missiles as being same cost and mass as completed CPR rounds, using a tube of much lighter mass. (I'd suggest 10% of an equivalent CPR Gun.)

I used AHL more than striker.

 

[jec10]

Aramis, do you mean Book 2 of CT/Striker which says that turret mounted ships missiles are equivalent to 15cm CPR warhead tac missiles using either target designated, homing, or drone missile guidance (page 41-42)?

 

[Major B]

The description of ground-based missile defenses used to target ships in COACC has a similar description.

I just got a copy of COACC and am interested to read the missile rules there. I've only had time to glance through it so far.

 

[kaladorn]

I'll think on this

No help for you here, Don. But as I swing into another Traveller phase, I'll think about how to retrofit them.

You could probably provide a table of some with fudged up numbers that let them penetrate the sorts and levels of armour you want for a given TL and missile mass. Much like the small arms and big gun weights. You don't have to explain the formulae, just have a table. That's a lot like what the DGP guys did for the other weapons systems.

Then you'd need tasks. You'd really need to support:
Dumb
Operator Guided
Fire and Forget (thermal, radar, lidar, sonic, image, combo guidance subtypes)
HVM - a hyper velocity kinetic kill missile (possible with small portable, rapidly collapsing single shot grav fields)

You would have to cover EW jammers and decoys, including flares, launched decoys, and what sorts of targeting systems they'd work against. Also PDS rigs of the 'claymore' type as well as some that are laser based. And ADS systems.

In the case of operator guided tac missiles, it would be quite possible to suppress the operator as an interrupt and thus make hitting with the missile very tough.

Depends how detailed and gearheadish you want to get. A basic treatment with a few tasks and some fudged tables would be pretty straightforward. A full treatment is a best of a whole other colour.

 

[Major B]

Don,

Found this link while looking for some information on drop capsules.

Don't have time to go through it in detail right now, but thought I'd post it here to see if it might help.

 

[Vargas]

If you were to include tac missiles in MT, you'd have to go back to the CT/Striker rules (both the design sequences and the wargame rules) and somehow convert to MT. I don't think this would be an easy task (which is maybe why DGP didn't even attempt it).

The MT-112A was, pure and simple, a bit of chrome with no attempt made to harmonize it with any design sequence and using nuke damage rules which were cribbed from an issue of Traveller's Digest. It was never meant to pass gearhead muster.

 

[Major B]

I think there is a benefit to reviving this thread to continue the discussion on Tac missiles for MT.

Specifically, Kaladorn's post is a good start point to discuss how many types of guidance need to be considered.

Here is a list from (imperfect) memory to start, including types from Striker and COACC plus other ideas:

Operator-Guided: Striker had a good list for this type, broken down into four types of command-links - wire, laser, maser, and radio. Are there any other command link types that should be added?

Homing: Striker fell short (by not differentiating on what the missile was homing on) but COACC add some more possibilities. From COACC I remember Infrared, active radar, semi-active radar, anti-radiation (homing on radar emitter), microwave, and neutrino. Kaladorn mentions ladar-guided - would that fit here? IR-Following missiles are separate in the Striker releset but I think that fits as a homing missile too.

Teleguided: Striker separates this type but COACC includes it with the homing missiles. It could also be operator-guided, depending on the command link.

Target Memory: Another Striker type.

Warhead types: Also, the types of warheads need to be codified. The standard types are HE and HEAP. I never gave much though to KEAP but HVM missiles are an intriguing idea I didn't consider before reading Kaladorn's post. CBM warheads have merit for some uses. How about collapsing rounds from Striker? Have to figure out how to keep the warhead in a damper box until needed but if that can be overcome the results could be very impressive.

 

[Major B]

Addition to the above post:

I realized that I left out Target Designated missiles and now that I'm thinking on those, it seems like there should be more types of designation available.

Striker limits target designation to lasers. COACC does not mention TD at all, but the description of a microwave homing missile sounds more like target designation to me as does the description of SARH missiles.

Thinking through the types of guidance is leading me to conclude there is potential for simplification here. Types could be boiled down to:

Operator Guided - where the missile is guided to the target using various links to give flight directions to the missile.

Homing - where the missile guides itself toward some type of emission from the target.

Designated - where someone (other than the missile) provides a reflection from the target which the missile homes in on.

Teleguided would fit in the first category. Target Memory is the only one that doesn't fit well but maybe I'm missing something there.