MT space combat example

[JBHemlock]

I started playing around with the space combat system in MT last night in anticipation of the possibility that my PCs will decide to shoot at something, and I'm confused about how damage is determined. Calculating hits is easy enough, but once I figure that a weapon has hit, things start going south.

Do I apply the +DM of the weapon to my 2D6 damage roll? Do I apply the DM of any defenses (agility, sandcasters, etc) as a negative DM to that damage roll?

It's pretty obvious that standard small ship combat with a few turrets will be similar to CT: the ships wear down one another. For something like a 100 ton missile bay, on the other hand, are they doing most of their damage through criticals? It looks like that's the case, but I want to make sure I get that. Also, how do I apply the defensive DM for critical hits?

I went looking for an example of MT space combat, sort of an analogue to Don McKinney's ship design example, but I couldn't find anything. Any help any of you could give me would be hugely appreciated.

 

[McPerth]

The system is nearly identical to HG2.

You can find a nice example here (has to be slightly adapted to MT): http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=19029

 

[mike wightman]

For PC scale ship combat you are often better off using the players book combat system, everything you need is in it.

 

[Carlobrand]

I started playing around with the space combat system in MT last night in anticipation of the possibility that my PCs will decide to shoot at something, and I'm confused about how damage is determined. Calculating hits is easy enough, but once I figure that a weapon has hit, things start going south.

Do I apply the +DM of the weapon to my 2D6 damage roll? Do I apply the DM of any defenses (agility, sandcasters, etc) as a negative DM to that damage roll?

It's pretty obvious that standard small ship combat with a few turrets will be similar to CT: the ships wear down one another. For something like a 100 ton missile bay, on the other hand, are they doing most of their damage through criticals? It looks like that's the case, but I want to make sure I get that. Also, how do I apply the defensive DM for critical hits?

I went looking for an example of MT space combat, sort of an analogue to Don McKinney's ship design example, but I couldn't find anything. Any help any of you could give me would be hugely appreciated.

Combat is a series of task rolls. You roll to hit, with positive DMs for the weapon rating and attacker computer rating (or gunnery skill), a variable DM for range, and a negative DM for the targeted ship's defensive rating.

Then, if you hit, you roll separately to penetrate each defense, with a positive DM for the attacker computer rating (or gunnery skill), a penetration DM determined by cross-referencing weapon rating against the defense system's rating, and a negative DM for the defender's computer rating (or gunnery skill).

Then, if you hit AND penetrate all the defenses, you roll for damage; DMs on the damage table include the target's armor (1/3 the rating over 40, round down if I recall), +6 if the weapon's a spinal, and +2 for pulse lasers.

Each task has its own set of DMs: aside from the +6 for all spinals [add: and the +2 for pulse lasers, of course], the weapon rating does not influence the damage roll. In the case of spinals it can influence how many rolls you get, and if the weapon rating exceeds the target's USP size code, it can additionally trigger one or more critical rolls.

 

[foleypt]

Check your private messages.. I wrote a set of rules for MT space combat that you might be interested in

 

[Carlobrand]

A couple of roleplaying points to add in:

Gunnery is a cascade skill, which is to say you can have gunnery skill in any one (or more, if you got more than one shot at it during your career and opted for something different) of three different systems: turret weapons, screens, and spinal weapons. I guess bay weapons are lumped in with turret weapons.

Rule says Gunnery skill may be substituted for the computer rating OR the weapon table DM, but that last is rarely used because the weapons table DMs tend to be pretty high. However, if you've got a really sharp gunner and a high computer rating, you might gain an advantage in something like a fighter or other boat.

The target ship's defensive rating (used in the to-hit roll) is the sum of the computer rating, the size modifier, and the agility DM (which depends on how much extra power you have after powering everything). Gunnery doesn't play a role here; it shows up later in the defenses. Oddly enough, the pilot rating is also not included among the optional modifiers, even though the pilot rating can be substituted for agility under the interrupt rule and, "As always, Pilot skill may be substituted for emergency agility if desired." [Emphasis added] I'm not sure if it was intended - but inadvertently omitted - for Piloting skill be permitted in place of the ship's agility rating when calculating the defensive rating, but it would be an interesting IMTU mod in that it's likely to keep your players alive a bit longer in combat. Of course, it would keep their targets alive longer too.

Gunnery rating can be used to replace the computer rating in the penetration roll - for both attacker and defender.

So, for example, your Free Trader with its little model/1, one triple missile turret and one triple sandcaster turret, with a Gunnery-3 gunner for each turret: the missile gunner could substitute his skill for your computer rating in both the to-hit and penetration rolls when attacking, and the sandcaster gunner could substitute his skill for your computer rating when someone shoots at you and tries to penetrate your sandcasters. That can mean the difference between life and death if you're facing a pirate with a computer/3.

What I'm not sure about is whether you can forego the gunner altogether and put the thing on automatic. The design rules can sometimes generate a bizarre number of gunners; on a scout, that can get right inconvenient.

 

[McPerth]

About the use of Gunnery skill. rules are not too clear.

Let me quote you the OP of this thread where it was discussed:

McPerth posted this question quite a while back, and it fell between the cracks.

In MT RM (p 95) says: 'Gunnery skill (turret/bay, spinal or screens) may be used in place of computer DM or weapon table DM on the to hit and defensive tasks'.

Following this, some questions arise:

- So, if you have gunnery 4 and are on a ship with computer 1, you can use 4 as computer DM. If you're on a ship with computer 6, difference between a gunner with gunnery 0 and one with gunnery 6 is null.

- If your character with gunnery skill 1 is firing a factor 3 missile battery against a repulsor 5 equipped ship, can you use your skill 1 in place of the repulsor table DM (-6)? It seems me quite a powerful use of the skill...

- If your character with skill 3 fires a factor 5 meson bay against a meson screen 4 equipped ship whose operator has skill 5, what's the DM? +3 (firer's skill)? -4 (table's DM)? -5 (defender’s skill)?, -2 (firer's skill - defender’s skill)? (after all, it's a confrontation task, but in this case, even having a defender more skilled than the firers, it's easier to penetrate it). Also, in this last case, having a factor T meson spinal or having a factor 5 meson bay makes no difference on its ability to penetrate screens...

Seems overpowered to me... thoughts?

And, BTW:

I guess bay weapons are lumped in with turret weapons.

See that the rule quoted talks about gunnery (turrets/bays), so yes, bays are counted thre-

 

[Carlobrand]

"So, if you have gunnery 4 and are on a ship with computer 1, you can use 4 as computer DM. If you're on a ship with computer 6, difference between a gunner with gunnery 0 and one with gunnery 6 is null."

Yup. Sucks rocks, but there it is. The weak gunners are sitting at the guns of the big ships with the fancy computers; the better gunners got promoted to administrative roles. Or they go to the little craft with the weak computers - where they're more likely to die. A little weak in the logic department, but it's the rule as written. I would have absolutely no complaint with an IMTU rule mod that added the gunnery skill instead of using it to substitute.

"- If your character with gunnery skill 1 is firing a factor 3 missile battery against a repulsor 5 equipped ship, can you use your skill 1 in place of the repulsor table DM (-6)? ..."

Nope. "'Gunnery skill (turret/bay, spinal or screens) may be used in place of computer DM or weapon table DM". The repulsor's -6 comes from the Defense table DM. Look over on page 93 where it specifies the modifiers for the penetration task roll.

"- If your character with skill 3 fires a factor 5 meson bay against a meson screen 4 equipped ship whose operator has skill 5, what's the DM? +3 (firer's skill)? -4 (table's DM)? -5 (defender’s skill)?, -2 (firer's skill - defender’s skill)? (after all, it's a confrontation task, but in this case, even having a defender more skilled than the firers, it's easier to penetrate it). Also, in this last case, having a factor T meson spinal or having a factor 5 meson bay makes no difference on its ability to penetrate screens..."
"To hit" and "to penetrate" are separate task rolls.

"To hit" is a Difficult task (base 11 or better). Offensive DMs are attacker computer rating or attacking gunner skill, Weapon Table DM or attacking gunner skill, range DM. Defensive DM is the ship's defensive rating, which is its computer rating plus size modifier plus agility rating; defender's gunner skill does not come into play because the defending weapon/screen is not in play yet - he's trying to avoid being in your crosshairs, his gunnery doesn't make a difference in that contest. I personally would like to see the pilot's skill be allowed in place of the defender's computer rating.

If you hit, then you roll to penetrate defenses. "To penetrate" is a Difficult task. Offensive DMs are attacker computer rating or attacking gunner skill. Defensive DM is the defender's computer rating or defender's gunner skill, and the Defense Table DM obtained by cross-referencing the weapon rating with the defense rating on the Defense Table. Now, he's already in your crosshairs and he's trying to make sure his defensive screens, including sand or beams in the case of incoming missiles, are as efficient as possible at repelling/absorbing any incoming fire.

Yes, it's not well worded. "Careful editing" are not words that can be applied to MegaTraveller, except in jest. Also makes multi-ship battles a royal pain.

 

[JBHemlock]

Thanks, folks, that all makes sense. It seems like the writers/editors probably just thought "it's so much like personal combat that we don't need to make this explicit".

As far as the unweildiness goes, I'm not too worried about that. I run a pretty combat-light campaign, so I doubt if I'll have to bust starship combat out more than 2-3 times over the coming year.