MT: RM Power Supply: Batteries, Fuel and Solar Cells

[snrdg082102]

Good evening Tom (CEST)

I only own the basic book of TNE, and I've not even read it in depth, so we'll have to trust your memory. Even so, AFAIK (I'm not an expert on the matter), todays solar cells don't emit too much heat, so I don't believe they would be a highly detectable heat source (even less if they are orbiting a planet, as an example).

Anyway, as rules are written, on an exceptional success, any craft is located (by energy scan) even if it emits no energy (as rules are, you would locate an asteroid in deep space with energy scan with an exceptional success, even if it emits no energy. As always I think rules must be interpreted by the referee).

I'll have to take your word on the rules, mine have pretty much been forgotten since I'm more of a gear head that doesn't focus on that side of the equation. I should pay more attention to them.

My memory has proven to be less reliable than I like, of course having severl gaming systems with design systems I am easily confused.

I'm now dashing off to another project, this one is on a revised design system in CT by Andrew Vallance.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello everyone,

Two items to cover, the first will be a correction to the original power out/storage numbers, OjnoTheRed did make a correction for battery storage capacity, and to clarify where I got the battery storage of MW-hour from. The second item concerns correctly calculating the number of batteries needed to operate a robot for more than 1 hour.

Item 1 Old business reviewed:

The revised numbers for power output/storage

Batteries: A single TL 10 storage battery has a volume of 1 liter, stores 0.8 kW-hr of power, a weight of 1 kg, and a price of Cr 0.00525.

Fuel Cells: A single TL 10 fuel cell with a power output of 10 kW-hr has a volume of 20 liters, a weight of 20 kg, a price of Cr 0.006, and consumes 0.1 liters/hr of hydrogen fuel.

Solar Cells: One square meter of a TL 10 solar cell has an output of 27 kW-hr, consumes 10 liters of volume, a weight of 12 kg, and a price of Cr 0.04.

From the first entry under the Storage Battery on MT: RM p. 64 states:

Storage: Megawatts-hours stored in 0.001 kiloliter of battery

This means that, at least by MT: RM, my original copy and paste for the storage battery was partially correct, I appear to have missed a small word.

Item 2: Calculating Storage battery characteristics to operate a robot for more than 1 hour.

A single 1-liter TL 12 storage battery provides 1 kW of operating power for 1 hour, weighs 1 kg, and costs Cr 0.0085.

A TL-12 robot requires 90 kW of power to operate for 1 hour. To operate for 10 hours the robot would require 90 kW x 10 hrs x 1 liter = 900 liters of battery that weighs 900 kg, with a price tag of Cr 7.65.

I'm just not sure about the numbers.

 

[sfchbryan]

The design rules kind of intermate that they are not, as you attach them to the hull depending on it's maximum surface area.

That's not to say that you can't specify them as retractable, however you would probably have to figure a way to specify the displacment of the craft when they were/wern't retracted, and allow for the volume of the cells to be avaialble in the craft for them to retract into.

Best regards,

Ewan

I would recommend the following:

When folded, 20% of calculated volume - increase cost 50% to account for gear to extend the panels.

 

[snrdg082102]

I would recommend the following:

When folded, 20% of calculated volume - increase cost 50% to account for gear to extend the panels.

Evening sfchbryan,

I like your idea, which is simple and easy for a retired old sailor, a submarine type too, to understand.

In TNE FF&S solar cells use volume in cubic meters to determine their characteristics. With the smallest solar cell being 0.01 cubic meters. If Ive got this right the smallest TNE solar cell is equal to MT solar cell volume of 0.01 kl.

To figure out the square meters of a solar array the cubic meters of solars would be multiplied by 10 for the inner, 100 in the habitable, and 10,000 for the outer zone of a star system. Having the array retract doubles the cost, volume, and weight.

T4 states that a retractable array requires 1.1 x array volume for storage within the vehicle and mass is doubled. Unfortunately the text doesn't mention anything about cost and my copy of T4 FF&S is missing the Photoelectric Power System table or tables. The T4 errata I have doesn't address the issue either.

Thank you for adding to the discussion.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Batteries: A single TL 10 storage battery has a volume of 1 liter, stores 0.8 kW-hr of power, a weight of 1 kg, and a price of Cr 0.00525.

0.0008 Mw/h in 0.001 kl for Cr 5.25 (in the errata we divide all battery prices by 100) the price in the MT refs book is in Cr. So

0.8 kw/h weights 1kg and costs Cr 5.25

Fuel Cells: A single TL 10 fuel cell with a power output of 10 kW-hr has a volume of 20 liters, a weight of 20 kg, a price of Cr 0.006, and consumes 0.1 liters/hr of hydrogen fuel.

Price doen't change. It still costs Cr 600. Also fuel cells are in kw the duration is the fuel volume

Solar Cells: One square meter of a TL 10 solar cell has an output of 27 kW-hr, consumes 10 liters of volume, a weight of 12 kg, and a price of Cr 0.04.

kw not kw/h, and again price doen't change it's still Cr 4,000

A single 1-liter TL 12 storage battery provides 1 kW of operating power for 1 hour, weighs 1 kg, and costs Cr 0.0085.

Costs Cr 8.5

A TL-12 robot requires 90 kW of power to operate for 1 hour. To operate for 10 hours the robot would require 90 kW x 10 hrs x 1 liter = 900 liters of battery that weighs 900 kg, with a price tag of Cr 7.65.

I'm just not sure about the numbers.

Yes, but the price would be Cr 7,650

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[snrdg082102]

0.0008 MW/h in 0.001 kl for Cr 5.25 (in the errata we divide all battery prices by 100) the price in the MT refs book is in Cr. So

0.8 kw/h weights 1kg and costs Cr 5.25



Price doesn't change. It still costs Cr 600. Also fuel cells are in kw the duration is the fuel volume



kw not kw/h, and again price doesn't change it's still Cr 4,000



Costs Cr 8.5



Yes, but the price would be Cr 7,650

Best regards,

Ewan

Morning from the Pacific Northwest Ewan,

Thanks for the reply.

My brain really went to sleep on this one. Of course multitasking has never been one of my stronger traits. By multitasking I mean trying to figure out OpenOffice Calc and work on two or is it three other projects. Again thank you for the help. Hopefully the help sticks on this go round.