More deckplans online

[Tanuki]

Peter Vernon now has a page for his deckplans. Some nice ones up so far: the air-raft compared to present dayt vehicles, an air-van, a Gig as seen with the Gazelle Close Escort, a Serpent Class Scout, and a sample rendition of a program that reads in subsector data and outputs gorgeous subsector maps. He'll tell you more about that one.

Enjoy.

http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/peter/

 

[thomryng]

Very nice! The comparison plan for the air/raft is particularly nice.

I wonder if there are any plans to do this with larger vehicles?

 

[trader jim]

Yes his look pretty good also.....

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by Valerian:
Very nice! The comparison plan for the air/raft is particularly nice.

I wonder if there are any plans to do this with larger vehicles?

Like what? For example.

 

[Ranger]

Very nice!

Any plans to do the other PP deckplans or small craft?

Rob

 

[PVernon]

About that sample map. It is a sample of the out-put from John G. Wood's GAL2CC program. Below is a post I made to the CC2-L list at yahoo groups.

"Wile we are waiting for PF to finish their "Space" addon. There is a way to convert sectors from GAL v2.3 or V2.4 (either) by Jim Vassilakos into very nice looking Traveller maps. The out-put looks like the "Spinward Marches" map that was in the Mega Traveller box set, black back-ground with white hex grid and borders.

The program is avalable at:

http://www.elvwood.org/Traveller/Supplement12.html

You also need sectors in gal format. They are avalable from:

http://members.aol.com/jimvassila/ look for the gal 2.4 download in his program area. Gal will also create new sectors.

If I can I will post an example of the out-put."

Peter V.

 

[thomryng]

Originally posted by PVernon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Valerian:
I wonder if there are any plans to do this with larger vehicles?

Like what? For example.</font>[/QUOTE]I recall a post where somebody compared a commercial aircraft to a Type-S scout (and possibly a Free Trader, my memory is hazy). It really put the sizes we were dealing with into perspective for me.

Has anyone ever done a visual size-comparison (even in silhouette) of the various common "character-sized" Traveller ships?

thom

 

[PVernon]

Interesting thought, I use CC2 to do my drawings, in the latest symbol "contest" someone did a group of commercial aircraft. Maybe a view of a group of common aircraft and Traveller ships layed-out like an airport. Interesting. I will see what the symbols look like when I get them.

 

[Tanuki]

Peter -- TJ wants to see grav bikes and grav sleds. Maybe two or three versions of each. That would go right along with the air-raft/van series. You want to give it a shot?

 

[gnytro]

Sweet!
I love the Serpent scout design. Ever since I picked up Best of JTAS #1 years ago I've used that design as the standard scout design.
Thanks for the link!

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by gnytro:
Sweet!
I love the Serpent scout design. Ever since I picked up Best of JTAS #1 years ago I've used that design as the standard scout design.
Thanks for the link!

Glad you liked it.
Peter V.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by PVernon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gnytro:
Sweet!
I love the Serpent scout design. Ever since I picked up Best of JTAS #1 years ago I've used that design as the standard scout design.
Thanks for the link!

Glad you liked it.
Peter V.</font>[/QUOTE]I'm thinking that T20 would actually use a slightly different design for the Serpent. Specifically, it needs the Airframe streamlining option, where the original Type S (and the T20 standard version) do not.

[edit to add design notes]
In fact, here's how the Serpent would differ from the Scout/Courier on page 235.

Add Airframe streamlining

Increase atmospheric speed to:
4700kph (Maximum)
3525kph (Cruising)
1175kph (Nape-of-the-Earth)

Improve Flight Avionics to Model/2.
(Note: Computer core is Model/1bis as in the text, not Model 1 as in the Form 3.1 specs)

Reduce cargo to 13.6 tons
(Note: The original Type S should have 19 tons cargo; the turret takes 1 ton not listed in the Form 3.1 specs)

Increase cost to MCr44.978 (with 20% discount)

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by Tom Schoene:
I'm thinking that T20 would actually use a slightly different design for the Serpent. Specifically, it needs the Airframe streamlining option, where the original Type S (and the T20 standard version) do not.

[edit to add design notes]
In fact, here's how the Serpent would differ from the Scout/Courier on page 235.

Add Airframe streamlining

Increase atmospheric speed to:
4700kph (Maximum)
3525kph (Cruising)
1175kph (Nape-of-the-Earth)

Improve Flight Avionics to Model/2.
(Note: Computer core is Model/1bis as in the text, not Model 1 as in the Form 3.1 specs)

Reduce cargo to 13.6 tons
(Note: The original Type S should have 19 tons cargo; the turret takes 1 ton not listed in the Form 3.1 specs)

Increase cost to MCr44.978 (with 20% discount)[/QB]

I'am going to have to look at the T20 rules and the Type S writeup. In the High Guard version it only has 3 tons of cargo, somethings changed.

Peter V.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by PVernon:
I'am going to have to look at the T20 rules and the Type S writeup. In the High Guard version it only has 3 tons of cargo, somethings changed.

Peter V.

No, the Book 2 version had only 3 tons of cargo. There were major diferences between Book 2 and Book 5, particualrly in very small ships.

Here's the Book 2 breakdown for the Scout/Courier:

Bridge: 20 tons
Computer: 1
Jump A 10
Fuel 20
Maneuver A 1
Power A 4
Fuel 20
Staterooms 16
Air/Raft 4
Turret 1
Cargo 3
Total 100

THe same breakdown in High Guard is:

Bridge: 20 tons
Computer: 1
Jump-2 3
Fuel 20
Maneuver-2 5
Power-2 6
Fuel 2
Staterooms 16
Air/Raft 4
Turret 1
Cargo 22
Total 100

See the difference? Book 2 ships were less efficient, but also much cheaper. The disparity was reconcilled in by saying standard designs used less efficient but cheaper components.

T20 gets into "trouble" because it has only one starship design system, not two contradictory ones. This actually makes life much easier in general. (For a T20 Type S, add 2 tons fuel and 1 ton more for the air/raft, but otherwise, see the High Guard breakdown.)

FWIW, the Serpent-class deckplans are a fairly good fit to the T20 stats. They have around 12.5 tons of cargo space, for instance. But they do have far too much engineering space-- about 25or 30 tons compared to the 14-15 called for in the design. I'd probably make them much shorter at the back end; open height of a half meter or less on both levels.

[Edit: Stupid UBB won't let me use spaces for alignment and won't take tabs at all. Grrr. Well, you should be able to make sense of it.]

 

[Hyperkit]

There is a Comparative Sizes silhouette of various ships in the book MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual which is primarily about the Beowolf Free Trader. Shows the following craft with a person sized illo and a scale bar for comparison and scale,
10 ton launch, 30 ton slow boat, 40 ton slow pinnace, 95 ton shuttle, 100 ton scout, 200 ton yacht, 200 ton Free Trader, 300 ton close escort, more 300 and 400 ton ships, then finally an 800 ton Merc Cruiser. I can scan and post it here if you want...

 

[Simon Jester]

Originally posted by Kitt:
There is a Comparative Sizes silhouette of various ships in the book MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual which is primarily about the Beowolf Free Trader. Shows the following craft with a person sized illo and a scale bar for comparison and scale,
10 ton launch, 30 ton slow boat, 40 ton slow pinnace, 95 ton shuttle, 100 ton scout, 200 ton yacht, 200 ton Free Trader, 300 ton close escort, more 300 and 400 ton ships, then finally an 800 ton Merc Cruiser. I can scan and post it here if you want...

While I personally would greatly like this, not having found/purchased a copy of this book yet, it's a DGP product and, as such, cannot be reproduced in whole or in part without violating copyright.

Please refrain from posting anything from DGP until such time as Mr. Sanger falls dead and someone buys the copyrights to all of the DGP stuff from his estate.

Thank you.

Simon Jester

 

[PVernon]

Tom,
I have found the difference between your figures and the ones I have been using

. The difference is in the fuel and the fuel purification plants. In the original specifications for the scout they had an extra jump 1 of fuel, thats 10 tons. The fuel Purification plant ,as calulated by AMV's HGS, is 7 tons. I have included the print from HGS as anotated with the tonnages below.

Detailed Description
HULL
100.000 tons standard, 1,400.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
Pilot, 3 Other Crew
ENGINEERING
Jump-2 , 2G Manuever, Power plant-2, 2.000 EP, Agility 2
3% - 3T, 5% - 5T , 6% - 6T = 14T
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1bis Computer
20T , 1T = 21T
HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint
1T = 1T
ARMAMENT
1 None Empty Turret
DEFENCES
None
CRAFT
1 3.000 ton Air/Raft (Crew of 0, Cost of MCr 0.000)
3T = 3T
FUEL
34.000 Tons Fuel (3 parsecs jump and 56 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
34T Fuel, 7T Purification Plant = 41T
MISCELLANEOUS
4.0 Staterooms, 4.000 Tons Cargo
16T , 4T = 20T
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 52.655 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.521), MCr 41.707 in Quantity
CONSTRUCTION TIME
38 Weeks Singly, 30 Weeks in Quantity total = 100T

 

[PVernon]

[/QB]Originally posted by Tom Schoene:

FWIW, the Serpent-class deckplans are a fairly good fit to the T20 stats. They have around 12.5 tons of cargo space, for instance. But they do have far too much engineering space-- about 25or 30 tons compared to the 14-15 called for in the design. I'd probably make them much shorter at the back end; open height of a half meter or less on both levels.
[/QB]

If you look at the Serpent deckplans I did you will notice good deal less cargo space. I have a xerox copy of "Scouts and Assassins" by Paranoid Press, in it they give the dimentions of the Serpent, and the deck plans as originaly published in JTAS and "S & A" are perfect, if you use 1 meter squares . What I did with my deck plan was to copy the original on a 1 meter grid and then convert to a 1.5 meter grid and tweek as nessary to make it legal

. I think it keeps the original feel of the design wile making it "legal". See the deckplan at http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/peter/

 

[Hyperkit]

Details of MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual Snipped ....

Quote Simon Jester:
While I personally would greatly like this, not having found/purchased a copy of this book yet, it's a DGP product and, as such, cannot be reproduced in whole or in part without violating copyright.

Please refrain from posting anything from DGP until such time as Mr. Sanger falls dead and someone buys the copyrights to all of the DGP stuff from his estate.

Thank you.

Simon Jester
-----------
Apologies, as a published writer myself, I had no intention of breaching his, or anyone else's Intellectual Property. I was only intending to help someone out, nothing more. Given that the silhouettes on this one page are all old Classic Traveller ones, the book has been out of print for many years, and many folk put their own interior designs of these craft up on their web pages, I didn't realize the designs still belonged to anyone in particular, let alone Mr Sanger. I assumed they were in the public domain. It was only one page, after all, I wouldn't have dreamt of suggesting anyting more. Still, no harm done, and thank you for letting me know.

 

[GypsyComet]

for comparative sizes, check this page, as recently located by Fletch:

http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/ships/silhouettes.jpg