I came across these deckplans for Mongoose's version of a Type-S. There seemed to be some subtle differences here. Am I mistaking that the Mongoose version differs from the classic Type-S from CT?
Mongoose Type-S?
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
Which CT version? Book2 or HG?
ISTR that the Type S had 40T of fuel and only 3T of cargo space. This one seems to have 30T of fuel and 9T of cargo space.
EDIT: The bridge (even if you include various incidentals) does not seem to come anywhere close to 20T, but that's a discrepancy this version shares with its precursors.
Hans
Last edited:
steventirey1985
SOC-12
The Mongoose Type S does have 34 tons of fuel, and 8 tons of cargo. The design sequences are not the same, so the resulting ships will be different.
Mongoose computers take up no space, as opposed to 1-9 tons. [Savings: 1 ton]
Classic Travller Book 2 powerplants required 10x their power rating for fuel (The type S therefore required 10x2=20 tons of maneuver and powerplant fuel for weeks.) The same Mongoose power plant only requires 4 tons for that same 4 weeks (though the Mongoose Type-S carries 14 weeks of fuel, at 14 tons.) [Savings: 6 tons]
Mongoose Type-S contains 2 tons of sensor probes [Cost: 2 tons]
Totaled up, thats 7 tons saved compared to CT Bk2 type S, and 2 of those tons are used to carry the sensor probes. The rest (5 tons) are added to the cargo hold, bringing it up to 8 tons of cargo.
Edit: Also, Mongoose ships don't require a minimum of 20 tons for a bridge. The Mongoose Type-S only has a 10 ton bridge, as compared to CT Type S 20 tons. That extra 10 tons saved goes to: 5 tons of armor, 2 tons of fuel processors, 2 tons for military sensors, and the maneuver drive requires 2 tons compared to CTs 1 ton.
Mongoose computers take up no space, as opposed to 1-9 tons. [Savings: 1 ton]
Classic Travller Book 2 powerplants required 10x their power rating for fuel (The type S therefore required 10x2=20 tons of maneuver and powerplant fuel for weeks.) The same Mongoose power plant only requires 4 tons for that same 4 weeks (though the Mongoose Type-S carries 14 weeks of fuel, at 14 tons.) [Savings: 6 tons]
Mongoose Type-S contains 2 tons of sensor probes [Cost: 2 tons]
Totaled up, thats 7 tons saved compared to CT Bk2 type S, and 2 of those tons are used to carry the sensor probes. The rest (5 tons) are added to the cargo hold, bringing it up to 8 tons of cargo.
Edit: Also, Mongoose ships don't require a minimum of 20 tons for a bridge. The Mongoose Type-S only has a 10 ton bridge, as compared to CT Type S 20 tons. That extra 10 tons saved goes to: 5 tons of armor, 2 tons of fuel processors, 2 tons for military sensors, and the maneuver drive requires 2 tons compared to CTs 1 ton.
Last edited:
Yeah, it was the bridge that got me. I don't recall the Type-S having a sensor suite behind the main bridge.
And I guess I'm referencing the Snapshot type-S.
It seemed radically different from what I recall.
Shouldn't we call this something else... like a, heck, I don't know, a Type-Q or Type-G or something?
And I guess I'm referencing the Snapshot type-S.
It seemed radically different from what I recall.
Shouldn't we call this something else... like a, heck, I don't know, a Type-Q or Type-G or something?
But it looks like a new design, not a reconditioning. That's just my opinion though.
No, it's my opinion too. But I said retcon, not reconditioning. The way retcons work, the new version is retroactively the version that has been there all along. In the post-Mongoose OTU the Type S Scout always looked like that.
Hans
Well, I think that's nonsense if true. That's essentially rewriting history, and I don't see the purpose for it.
Actually, it's rewriting the setting without rewriting history. The purpose is to reconcile the old setting with the new rules. Otherwise you would have to believe that drives and power plants worked one way in 1105 (CT) but that there was a sudden shift in the Cosmic Axis in 1116 causing them to work differently from then on (MT) until another shift made them work a third way (TNE). That is, IMO, a lot worse nonsense.
And, of course, that 'Cosmic Axis shift' won't work for Mongoose's OTU, since they went back to 1105. Here, if you insisted on retaining the CT version of the Type S, you would have to believe that the Imperium built 30,000 broken scout ships[*] before they realized that there was a much more efficient way to build 100T jump-2 ships.
[*] This assumes for purposes of argument that the CT version is actually capable of working under the MgT rules, something I haven't bothered to check.
Hans
Well, admittedly we used basic starship combat and economic's rules, and not High Guard, nor MT, so I'm kind of in the dark about the schism in the rules, though I've often heard them referred to here on the forums.
I have to admit, I've thought there were some issues in the CT starship ruleset, but I think just saying that there was a shift in technology, for me, the lay-Traveller, works a whole lot better than shifting the design. Using some external force would seem to work better. If there's an issue with the classes sensor suite, then maybe saying the Imperium had injected helper probes throughout Imperial space might make up for a perceived increase in power and efficiency. Stuff like that.
I dunno, I'm an old school kind of guy, I totally understand in the shift in rules trying to sort out discrepancies in tech, but, well, I like the old type-S
Well, Mongoose has ruled, so there it is. Oh well.
But wait a minute, what about all of the other variations? Like the prospector and so forth?
I have to admit, I've thought there were some issues in the CT starship ruleset, but I think just saying that there was a shift in technology, for me, the lay-Traveller, works a whole lot better than shifting the design. Using some external force would seem to work better. If there's an issue with the classes sensor suite, then maybe saying the Imperium had injected helper probes throughout Imperial space might make up for a perceived increase in power and efficiency. Stuff like that.
I dunno, I'm an old school kind of guy, I totally understand in the shift in rules trying to sort out discrepancies in tech, but, well, I like the old type-S
Well, Mongoose has ruled, so there it is. Oh well.
But wait a minute, what about all of the other variations? Like the prospector and so forth?
steventirey1985
SOC-12
They would be different in Mongoose Traveller just as the Type S is different. The Mongoose core rulebook has a Seeker mining ship, based on the Mongoose Type S.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
It's still a Type S, just not a Suleiman.
(It's also not very streamlined according to those plans...)
That's a very good suggestion, but it depends on the interpretation of 'type' as something other than 'class'. Which I for one supports, but I'm not sure it has ever been definitely established.
And if it has, do the people of Mongoose know about it?
(For those who don't know about this, it has been suggested that 'type' defines a certain (quite limited) set of starship specifications. Size, streamlining, jump capacity, etc. Any starship class that conform to those specifications belong to the type. It is a class of classes, as it were.)
IIRC a type S ship is streamlined regardless of its class.
Hans
steventirey1985
SOC-12
Ship Type codes
Type S ships are scout ships.
Or at least that is what it is supposed to mean in Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller. Mongoose Traveller seems to have it mean one specific ship (the 100 ton scout).
Type S ships are scout ships.
Or at least that is what it is supposed to mean in Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller. Mongoose Traveller seems to have it mean one specific ship (the 100 ton scout).
Last edited:
My understanding of ship "types" was that they were about performance characteristics. All ships of the same type have the same USP, possibly excluding weaponry.
So you can have the excelled "Baseball" class Type-A trader on "Peter's Traveller Page" in addition to the classic "Beowulf", both of which are Type-A from the Imperium's perspective.
So you can have the excelled "Baseball" class Type-A trader on "Peter's Traveller Page" in addition to the classic "Beowulf", both of which are Type-A from the Imperium's perspective.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
It's heavily implied by HG, and pretty much confirmed by MT.
I wouldn't like to comment on Mongoose's knowledge...
The ship's supposed to be streamlined, but I'm not sure how much you can do with the slab implied by the plans.
Implied how and confirmed how? I seem to recall trying to find an example of two different ships (and thus two different classes) belonging to the same type, but failing. AFAIK there has not been an instance of 'type' being used in a way different from 'class'. But perhaps I'm misremembering; it was a long time ago.
Hans
steventirey1985
SOC-12
MegaTraveller Referee's Manual:
Below that is a chart, which can be found here.
Rebellion Sourcebook has the Vargr Foghoks class heavy cruiser (Type CA), while later on in the same book is the Imperial Planet-class heavy cruiser (Type CA). Two different ships, from two different empires, but the same type code. The Aslan Weakhto-class cruiser in the same book is also Type CA. There are 4 more Imperial ships with Type CA in Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium, as well as multiple ships with similar codes. (Though the ships in Fighting Ships are also technologically advanced version of the ships. BB-11 is a TL 11 battleship, while BB-12 is an advanced version of the BB-11, though with somewhat different specifications.)
Classic Traveller, in in Book 5 High Guard, has a similar chart as MegaTraveller. It stands to reason that it has a similar use as the Megatraveller codes as well.
Below that is a chart, which can be found here.
Rebellion Sourcebook has the Vargr Foghoks class heavy cruiser (Type CA), while later on in the same book is the Imperial Planet-class heavy cruiser (Type CA). Two different ships, from two different empires, but the same type code. The Aslan Weakhto-class cruiser in the same book is also Type CA. There are 4 more Imperial ships with Type CA in Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium, as well as multiple ships with similar codes. (Though the ships in Fighting Ships are also technologically advanced version of the ships. BB-11 is a TL 11 battleship, while BB-12 is an advanced version of the BB-11, though with somewhat different specifications.)
Classic Traveller, in in Book 5 High Guard, has a similar chart as MegaTraveller. It stands to reason that it has a similar use as the Megatraveller codes as well.
Last edited:
Almost all CT Bk2 designs will work; some won't work well.
CT Power plants use 10Pn fuel per PP for one month of operations.
MGT uses 4Td per drive letter per month. This means that for Pn=1, Drives A & B gain some tonnage, C/D/E drop to two weeks, and F+ lose cargo tonnage to minimum PP fuel.
For P2, A-D gain duration, E remains the same, F-K drop to two weeks, and L+ fail.
For P3, B-G gain duration, H-P drop towards two weeks.Q+ don't meet the two week minimum.
For P4, B-H gain, K retains, J-W drop towards two weeks.
Sensors (above basic) take space, but computers don't, so most military designs will be off by a ton or two.
100 and 200Td ships gain 10 tons free space from the smaller allowed bridge.
Ships over 2000Td don't convert directly; the MGT process for them is essentially incompatible with CT Bk2.
MGT has no required elements not also required in CT, tho' some 1st Ed CT designs were broken by 2nd ed standards (Pn<Jn), and remain broken for MGT.
