Milieux for T5

[TCHarrison]

I know that T5's initial milieu is going to be M:200, but here's some Milieux I'd like to see out soon after T5 starts doing well (no particular order here):

Milieu: 0
Psionic Suppressions
Long Night
Rule of Man
Interstellar Wars

What milieux would the rest of you like to see after M200?

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-J. Jensen

 

[lucasdigital]

Firstly,

In order to get enough focused support I would very strongly encourage that only one Milleu be officially supported.

Those who disagree should consider how enthusiastic they would be with the prospect of only ever seeing one or two volumes which would support their Milleu. The unavoidable consequence of a multi milleu approach is dilution of era specific support.

Personally I don't really care what Milleu is chosen so long as it is;

a) Richly described and ripe for adventure.

b) Maintains the Traveller feel

c) Gives seasoned Traveller players something new and fresh.


I think it makes the most sense to set T5 in a post New Era setting. Say in the Imperial year 2000 which is some 800 years after virus. This era could be the peak time of a 4th Imperium. Imperial High Tech may have broken through to TL17 or 18 (assumes the introduction of machine intelligence, the only noticable inheritance from the 'New Era'

On the ground there really wouldn't be very much difference between Classic 3rd Imperium and this new future time. One of the things distinctive to Traveller is that the background was always twisted in a way to allow players to experience adventure in any technological era, from adventures on stone age world to pocket universes and teleportation technology.

The only thing the era of play really effected was the tone of the game.

Classic was free-wheeling and stable. The Milleu was mostly invisible as there were no current intersteller wars or large scale conflicts. Players could just get on with travelling.Add to this that the official GDW material was centred on the frontier of the Imperium which was supposed to be a more dangerous and exciting place to live.

Mega Traveller introduced the idea of a civil war which allowed for large scale conflict.The astrographic setting was much looser as the source material plotted activities all around the Imperium.

Initially the background didn't have to effect a typical Traveller game but by the time Hard Times supplement was set the Imperial economy was in ruin and the old style travelling games would have been hard to justify unless playing in the Marches ala Classic Traveller.

New Era was a brave and fresh approach. No wonder that so many Traveller fans seemed to hate it.
The idea of players wandering around a stable and well established gaming universe was jettisoned in favour of a new frontier.
Although there were a three suggested settings, including play in the Marches/Domain of Deneb (back to CT again!)most of the focus was placing the PC's in a single organisation which had an established set of missions and objectives.

It was great IMHO but probably not Traveller.

T4 set the clock back to the origins of the third Imperium and made for an interesting mix of the previous three era's, though I had precious little exposure to actual T4 play.

Mk

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Mark Lucas
Lucas-digital.com


[This message has been edited by lucasdigital (edited 05 July 2001).]

 

[DrSkull]

I liked the idea of M0, because you had a "stable zone" in the Core where "normal stuff" could happen. But it was surounded by a HUGE unknown, derelict planeets, pirate planets, pocket empires by the gazillions. Planty of work for archeologists (and most didn't involve "the ancients", plenty of work for mercenaries and for small armed spaceships.

No matter what the system I end up using, I may set my next Trav camapaign in M0

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[lucasdigital]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
<SNIP>
No matter what the system I end up using, I may set my next Trav camapaign in M0

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Indeed, the M0 era is an excellent place to be, with elements of previously detailed eras.

I just find it hard to forget the foreknowledge of the 'future'. I guess its no different from playing in a real world historical setting.

I must admit I'd rather see M0 than the classic traveller era.

Mk




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Mark Lucas
Lucas-digital.com

 

[Gallowglass]

I think FFE should take a dual approach with T5: the primary Milieu (I like the idea of M200) supplements (but where possible with stats etc that allow CT, GT and T20 gamers to use the material aswell) and, provided the first year or so of T5 goes well, Settings: specifically licensed campaign supplements conatining adventures, ideas and patrons plus setting specific details from non Canon settings. I can think of several settings, not yet snapped up by SJG that would suit T5 (assuming T5 will inherit some of CT and MT's generic Hard SF feel) and probably thereby boost the profile of the game as well...

[This message has been edited by Gallowglass (edited 06 July 2001).]

 

[Secrect Cow Level]

Personally I liked TNE's setting a lot. It allowed for exploration, trade, and military adventures by turning explored space into a frontier. The problem with CT's setting is that all of Imperial space is settled and all the boarders are surronded by alien governments. This works great if you're running a merchants campaign, but if trade and speculation aren't your cup of tea your options are limited. T5 should either focus on post Virus era or else the very far future.

 

[T. Foster]

IMO it's absolutely essential that one of the eras/milieux presented in T^5 be the post-New Era Future, circa 1350 or so -- enough time that Virus and the Empress Wave and whatnot will have been able to run their course as plot elements, but still close enough that we'll be able to recognize the antecedents.

Exploring 'future history' is a nice option/gimmick, and fine for a licensee like T^20, but "real" Traveller should be about open possibilities and looking forward, not back.

Furthermore, although I'm not especially crazy about most (any?) of the changes TNE made to the shape of the OTU (Virus, Empress Wave, RCES/Hiver puppets, psi-friendly 'democratic' Regency, etc.) that's what we've been given and we must deal with it as best we can; serving up some 'return to status quo' 4th Imperium won't wash -- that's what GT's 'dreamworld' is for -- T^5 needs to explore the frontiers of the Great Unknown.

In addition to that, other milieux/settings I'd like to see:

Interstellar Wars
Psionic Supressions
Zhodani Core Expeditions
Solomani Rimward Explorations

Maybe it's just the bad taste left by the T4 fiasco, but I think Milieu 0 was a turkey, and I'm not in the least enthusiastic about M:200 either; especially not as the default/primary setting. Save the past for supplements; give me the Future!

 

[Mår Ekkertsen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>by T. Foster:...but "real" Traveller should be about open possibilities and looking forward, not back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the best expression of why it need be where Traveller has never gone before.

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mark ayers n2s@qwest.net , philosopher serf, editor of n2s; the journal for an empty mind

 

[lucasdigital]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
<SNIP> Save the past for supplements; give me the Future!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely agree!

When I think back about the what really made me excited about the Traveller universe (not playing per say) it was the mystery and the way the place developed.

High points for me were the build-up and early period of the civil war.

Survival Margin was a great bridge between era's

While some people didn't like virus, or the prospects of the Empress Wave these elements entranced the players and kept us talking and thinking about the future.

Players in some earlier era for me would be like Sarah Connor in T2, unable to concentrate on the here and now because they would be aware of everything that will befall the society they live in, and the next one.

Just as we have all moved forward in time over the last two decades, so should the Traveller universe.!

Mk





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Mark Lucas
Lucas-digital.com

 

[TimAllan]

Thr Virus and the big error were the worst thing that ever happened to Traveller. It was a worse piece of "I'm bored with this situation, I'll make a totaly different one" than Robert Heinline's Number of the Beast.
It is my opinion that Milieux 0 is an extriemly interesting time to be playing in the Imperium, and milieux 200 should be equaly interesting given the things going on in the Imperium at that time.
Perhaps, rather than a TNE or post TNE environment, a later hard times and post hard times situation could be presented. This would have many of the new beginning situations of the TNE setting, without resorting to the arbitrary and rather pointless virus.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I never liked the way Traveller was going. I didn't like the civil wars and I really didn't like the virus.

The Imperium gave us a stable location for our adventures. The Civil Wars were big, important changes that could steamroller players. Worse yet, there were major changes in the universe that could shatter a referee's story arc. (What's the point of plotting to have the subsector govenor doublcross the players when invading fleets will make him irrellevant by game 3?) The virus was worse, but by that time we weren't playing 3rd Imperium anymore and we could care less what GDW said.

As for player's forknowledge, this should not be a problem. What we know of the succeeding years is pretty vague, and players should not be engaged with people of the level we do remember. Even so, what players do may not endure.

I recall H. Beam Pipers future history, where individual stories are about the triumph of the individual, but over his body of work these successes disappear in history. Junkyard Planet (aka The Cosmic Computer ends where Poitesme should be set to preserve civilzation through the long night. The planet isn't even mentioned in Space Viking or later stories. Likewise, the vibrant, ambitious worlds in Space Viking are barely mentined in his Imperium stories, while a world nearly destroyed in Space Viking becomes the capital. It is not that he is not keeping track, he clearly is, but Something Happens when the storyteller looks away.

 

[jalberti]

The Rebellion and Hard Times Eras are what made Traveller the most interesting roleplaying environment for me as a referee and the players in my group. It set the game apart from the other games we were playing at the time. In fact, we abandoned the other RPG's we were playing and played MT until just after TNE came out. We never took to TNE and its game mechanics.

The conflicting ideologies gave the players a compelling reason to adventure, beyond just earning a living and travelling around. The epic conflict between the factions provided a challenging environment for the players. It also provided enjoyable challenges for me as a referee.

I would like to see the Rebellion Era offered as a era offered in the T5 rules someday.

 

[Mår Ekkertsen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>by jalberti:The Rebellion and...are what made Traveller the most interesting roleplaying environment for me as a referee...It set the game apart from the other games we were playing at the time...We never took to TNE and its game mechanics...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said. With the small expungment of the 'hard times'. We loved the Rebellion. It made all kinds of places frontier. The room for adventure was magnificant and over came the staleness that the Imperium had become.

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mark ayers n2s@qwest.net , philosopher serf, editor of n2s; the journal for an empty mind

 

[lucasdigital]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by n2s:
Well said. With the small expungment of the 'hard times'. We loved the Rebellion. It made all kinds of places frontier.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, though for the record TNE really made the whole region of the imperium a frontier.

The only part I didn't like and changed a bit was the lack of high tech worlds.

The lack of frontier was for me one of the weakest elements of Classic Traveller, Even in the Marches you couldn't really get the feeling of being off the beaten tracks.

Mk





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Mark Lucas
Lucas-digital.com

 

[Mår Ekkertsen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>by lucasdigital:...TNE really made the whole region of the imperium a frontier.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True enough. Had some fun there but it really was a bit TOO wild for my taste long term.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...Even in the Marches you couldn't really get the feeling of being off the beaten tracks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also true but I must saying that, having built a universe or two for Traveller, it is hard to build a place where one can both civilized worlds with history and unvisited systems.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I liked the Rebellion period. And although I wasn't the biggest fan of Mega Traveller (primarily because of the lack of support; i.e. published adventures), I did really love the combat resolution and task systems. A task system was desperately needed, as pre the D&D "save throw".

The other reason I like the Rebellion period was because of the rich environment it created. Lots of nations squabbleing for power creates lots of possibilities.

 

[GypsyComet]

The replies I've seen so far ALL justify the timeline as it stands. The Third Imperium Universe provides what everyone wants at some point in its timeline.

You want a stable Imperium at its peak? The 1010 to 1110 period is for you.

Want an ultimate war with no clear winners? Rebellion Era.

Picking up the pieces after above war? Hard Times and New Era

No longer top of the food chain? New Era Pocket Empires.

Reclaiming what was ours for the glory of the Emperor? Julian War or New Era Regency.

Want the dominant one-front war? Any of the Alien Campaigns eras, up to and including the Solomani Rim War.

Birth of Empire? Milieu Zero.

Exploring the frontiers knowing the border will soon follow? Anything from year zero up to about year 900.

Chaos on the Throne, but business as usual elsewhere? The Barracks Emperors period.

Pogroms against the "different?" Psionic Suppressions of 800.

Where Humaniti has not gone before: Either Core or Rim Expeditions.

...

As a Future History, it works wonderfully start to finish. It echoes it's literary sources (Anderson and Piper) and keeps the genre.
You don't like the ending? Don't play there. But be assured that some of us will...

 

[Gallowglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
The replies I've seen so far ALL justify the timeline as it stands. The Third Imperium Universe provides what everyone wants at some point in its timeline.

You want a stable Imperium at its peak? The 1010 to 1110 period is for you.

Want an ultimate war with no clear winners? Rebellion Era.

Picking up the pieces after above war? Hard Times and New Era

No longer top of the food chain? New Era Pocket Empires.

Reclaiming what was ours for the glory of the Emperor? Julian War or New Era Regency.

Want the dominant one-front war? Any of the Alien Campaigns eras, up to and including the Solomani Rim War.

Birth of Empire? Milieu Zero.

Exploring the frontiers knowing the border will soon follow? Anything from year zero up to about year 900.

Chaos on the Throne, but business as usual elsewhere? The Barracks Emperors period.

Pogroms against the "different?" Psionic Suppressions of 800.

Where Humaniti has not gone before: Either Core or Rim Expeditions.

...

As a Future History, it works wonderfully start to finish. It echoes it's literary sources (Anderson and Piper) and keeps the genre.
You don't like the ending? Don't play there. But be assured that some of us will...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know, people are building nicely towards a big argument and someone has to come a long and be sensible and reasonable at them

Seriously, given that part of the Traveller feel has been described as the PC's not altering the course of history (You can be caught up in the Fifth Frontier War or the Rebellion, but PC's don't stop the war, or start them), should T5 try to be to some extent Milieu agnostic? Obviously, more background orientated supplements would be set in specific eras but scenarioes could contain notes on adapting them to other era's...

I strongly feel that T5 should, initially at least, have a single miliue selected as it's "primary" focus to which all material is first designed. And for all fans, extending the OTU timeline out beyond the 1200 point would be fascinating...

 

[jalberti]

Originally posted by GypsyComet:
The replies I've seen so far ALL justify the timeline as it stands. The Third Imperium Universe provides what everyone wants at some point in its timeline.

Very well said! There is something for everbody somewhere in the timeline as it stands.

 

[DrSkull]

Has anyone looked at the "Freelance Traveller" website lately. Jeff has devoted some space to the "ancient times" when people would make their own campaign backgrounds (more or less out of necessity). I wouldn't think it was a bad thing if T5 offered, nay rather encouraged, people to do that. It would only take a page or two, but I think would be good for Traveller.

I know I'm completely torn. In the Fall I'm going to start a Traveller game (probably T20) and it could be in the Gateway Domain, year 1000, which is standard for T20, or maybe M0, or maybe Spinward Marches, heck I might even do an alternate Third Imperium which is largely the same except for "geography", having some more wide-open frontier space. THen again I might make my own universe. It will largely be the same campaign any way I choose, bunch of guys in a used Happy Fun Ball, making the subsector safe for profit margins, all for a nice price.

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson