According to G:T Star Mercs by MJD (and, I think, NAF), mercenary ships and squadrons are somewhat common, although merc fleets are rare. The 41st Independent Squadron, which I "own and run" for occasional use in Random Static, is in theory a large merc fleet which has several Batrons and more CruRons, as well as support ships. How feasible is this?
Mercenary Ships/Squadrons
- Thread starter Jame
- Start date
Wow. A merc fleet! I'm impressed.
How doable is it? Perfectly... especially since it's YTU!
I've never really thought about it, though. As long as it's got strong ties/favors owed/utility with the local Duke, I'd say it's not a problem at all. In fact, I'd say it's likely that such a fleet would have some informal amount of backing and, yes, even participation by the local nobility. Something short of actually being part of the duke's own personal arm of the Imperial fleet.
The more I think about it, the more I like it. Local nobility send some of their rowdy children to the local merc fleet for awhile, as a more rough-and-ready alternative to the Navy. You might want to think about writing up and posting some career generation rules for such an option. Hmmmmm.....
I'd say such fleets might not be so rare. It all depends on how powerful and independent they are, of course, because they can't be seen as a threat. It's a very interesting angle that I'd not considered before. It sounds pretty neat!!
Now that I think about it, fleets very similar to what you've described exist in canon -- as Megacorporate security fleets. Sure, they tend to be dispersed a bit, but they're there, right?
So, doesn't it stand to reason that there ought to be a few locally-subsidized mercenary fleets? Verrry interesting indeed.
Thanks for bringing the fire. I'm hooked!
How doable is it? Perfectly... especially since it's YTU!
I've never really thought about it, though. As long as it's got strong ties/favors owed/utility with the local Duke, I'd say it's not a problem at all. In fact, I'd say it's likely that such a fleet would have some informal amount of backing and, yes, even participation by the local nobility. Something short of actually being part of the duke's own personal arm of the Imperial fleet.
The more I think about it, the more I like it. Local nobility send some of their rowdy children to the local merc fleet for awhile, as a more rough-and-ready alternative to the Navy. You might want to think about writing up and posting some career generation rules for such an option. Hmmmmm.....
I'd say such fleets might not be so rare. It all depends on how powerful and independent they are, of course, because they can't be seen as a threat. It's a very interesting angle that I'd not considered before. It sounds pretty neat!!
Now that I think about it, fleets very similar to what you've described exist in canon -- as Megacorporate security fleets. Sure, they tend to be dispersed a bit, but they're there, right?
So, doesn't it stand to reason that there ought to be a few locally-subsidized mercenary fleets? Verrry interesting indeed.
Thanks for bringing the fire. I'm hooked!
You know, the more I think about it the more it makes sense. The Imperial Navy really doesn't want to be everywhere; they just settle problems (decisively) when things get out of hand. They have, "officially", 1000 monster battleships/carriers/whatevers and a zillion support craft for those monster ships. They have to uphold Imperial law for 15 trillion people on 11,000 worlds -- they don't have time to waste on piddly matters concerning handfuls of worlds at every corner of the Imperium. They apply overwhelming force, and generally end disputes by destroying both sides of any argument. They're not policemen, and they don't do 'skirmishes'. That's what mercs are for.
So what happens when an important world gets in a snit with a megacorp? The IN isn't going to fight a megacorp. The Imperial Moot doesn't care -- they're a year away. The Duke toes the line, officially. So, the world -- perhaps even with some unseen ducal support -- hires an independent fleet that's large enough and well-organized enough to take on specific local branches of a megacorp's security fleet.
Yeah. I like that a lot.
Conversely, I doubt any branch of the Imperium would want a totally independent mercenary fleet floating around. A wealthy world could hire them to help carve out a pocket empire, which would cause all kinds of unpleasantness involving Tigresses and mass drivers...
And finally, the market for these fleets is limited. IMTU I'd see maybe two of these per domain, plus another for border sectors. Maybe. And that's rare, but it's about as many fleets as there are Megacorps (hey, that's a good metric).
So what happens when an important world gets in a snit with a megacorp? The IN isn't going to fight a megacorp. The Imperial Moot doesn't care -- they're a year away. The Duke toes the line, officially. So, the world -- perhaps even with some unseen ducal support -- hires an independent fleet that's large enough and well-organized enough to take on specific local branches of a megacorp's security fleet.
Yeah. I like that a lot.
Conversely, I doubt any branch of the Imperium would want a totally independent mercenary fleet floating around. A wealthy world could hire them to help carve out a pocket empire, which would cause all kinds of unpleasantness involving Tigresses and mass drivers...
And finally, the market for these fleets is limited. IMTU I'd see maybe two of these per domain, plus another for border sectors. Maybe. And that's rare, but it's about as many fleets as there are Megacorps (hey, that's a good metric).
How feasible is it?
IMTU? My gut says abso-f***ing-lutely impossible.
OTU? I'm having severe doubts that the Imperial rules of war, which ban WMD from private ownership, would allow anybody to possess a spinal mount armed ship, which is quite a WMD in its own right.
In addition, such a fleet would be sufficient to challenge local Imperial Navy units - a situation the Imperium is very unlikely to tolerate. Other governments would probably tolerate it even less.
The only place I could imagine such a squadron is in the Vargr extents, where a charismatic leader might attract enough support, and there is no strong authority to challenge him.
Regards,
Tobias
IIRC in Azhanti High Lightning and the Traveller Adventure there is a huge fuss about the Oberlindes line owning a frontier cruiser WITH functioning spinal mount that ship is not allowed into the Imperium. This suggests that Private individuals are not allowed to own real warcraft i.e. cruisers and larger. The 5th frontier boardgame also features mercanary ground units but no mercanary fleets which would be implied by mercanary cruisers and BB.
There also does not seem to be much of a role for Mercnary Battleships. Only rich worlds needing to fight an interstellar war could afford them and 2 such worlds fighting WOULD (IMTU) Trigger Imperial intervention. Likewise fighting between megacorps on such a scale would disrupt trade so badly imperial intervention would be near certain.
There also does not seem to be much of a role for Mercnary Battleships. Only rich worlds needing to fight an interstellar war could afford them and 2 such worlds fighting WOULD (IMTU) Trigger Imperial intervention. Likewise fighting between megacorps on such a scale would disrupt trade so badly imperial intervention would be near certain.
Are we so sure? The "two strong worlds" might be worlds the Emperor wants to cut to size. The Emperor might be sponsering them himself as a tool he can deny knowledge of. The local Duke might not have much force available:even the Imperium only has so much. It might be a border reigion, like the Rim or the Marches, where one empire could be played against another.They might be working outside the Imperium.
How large would this "fleet" be anyway? A small squadron of about ten ships might be able to go without making waves. If they had done all their training together they could be more valueable than ten individual ships.
One type of service that is not mentioned much in Star Mercs though is infrastracture. There would probably be people who specialize in providing a base, recruitment, training, transport, etc for mercenaries. Such places would be crawling with spies: whenever someone is hired it would be a signal that something is up. Therefore security would be highly advertised.
Several stories could be made on this. For instance two Merc groups who had been on opposite sides in the last encounter, could have an awkward meeting while recuperating.
How large would this "fleet" be anyway? A small squadron of about ten ships might be able to go without making waves. If they had done all their training together they could be more valueable than ten individual ships.
One type of service that is not mentioned much in Star Mercs though is infrastracture. There would probably be people who specialize in providing a base, recruitment, training, transport, etc for mercenaries. Such places would be crawling with spies: whenever someone is hired it would be a signal that something is up. Therefore security would be highly advertised.
Several stories could be made on this. For instance two Merc groups who had been on opposite sides in the last encounter, could have an awkward meeting while recuperating.
Just to be sure: We are talking here about a fleet of several Batrons and Crurons. Such a fleet is not only a formidable instrument of political power, easily enough to challenge a small interstellar state. It is also a tremendous expense. By conventional estimates, a Batron costs about a trillion credits. For this alone you could equip an army of at least several hundred thousand mercenaries.
Don't know about YTU, but IMTU (and OTU, I think) this is unthinkable.
Regards,
Tobias
Don't know about YTU, but IMTU (and OTU, I think) this is unthinkable.
Regards,
Tobias
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
I wont give away any secrets, but, TRADERS RAIDERS FLEET can "run" with the "big Boys" at any time!!! 
Any merc fleet with a ship large enough for a spinal mount or many ships over 5000 Tons will be on the Imp Navy's high interest list.
Questions to be asked---
Who is financing the merc fleet?
Who is running it?
How did they aquire such heavy jump capable units?
What shipyard built the fleet ships?
Who is interested in hiring the fleet?
Why did they hire the fleet, who is it aimed at?
Why did they hire a merc fleet than get the help of the navy.
Who is hiding what from whom?
Questions to be asked---
Who is financing the merc fleet?
Who is running it?
How did they aquire such heavy jump capable units?
What shipyard built the fleet ships?
Who is interested in hiring the fleet?
Why did they hire the fleet, who is it aimed at?
Why did they hire a merc fleet than get the help of the navy.
Who is hiding what from whom?
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
To my knowlege, only one capital ship (defined as over 2000 tons with a spinal mount) is in private (non-governmental) hands as of 1120: The MV Emissary, owned by Oberlindes Lines. She operates in Gvurrdon and Tuglikki Sectors and is prohibited by law from returning to Imperial space because she has a spinal mount. At least that's what my copy of the Traveller Adventure and AHL says... 
I think everyone's concerns are well noted. Since the unit does exist IYTU, I have no question about its legitimacy. My only question is: "is the fleet in the Archduke's pocket, or the Emperor's?" Anything that seems to undermine Imperial authority must, however informally, be a useful instrument of one or more Imperial institutions. Imperial nobility, the Megacorps, Naval Intelligence, a fabulourly wealthy Archduke... it's in the Good Old Sophonts' network there somewhere.
How about a "mercenary" fleet that exists at the sufferance of the Imperium and Consulate, with the right to operate capital ships, so long as it agrees to be deputized and "remove" any threats that the officials can't get involved in? Operating as trouble shooters (and I _do_ mean that, literally and as a pun...)!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
In MT/COACC, they have referred that Merc units of large size have several 10kton bulk freighters--for hauling aircraft/ and vehicles. 
Seems to me a size problem. And even a 10k freighter carries arms in the rebellion era..escorting it hey..its YTU then! -FYI only,
--some Imperial Officer reminding kinda guy..<who me?> 
Seems to me a size problem. And even a 10k freighter carries arms in the rebellion era..escorting it hey..its YTU then! -FYI only,
Hey, an Imperial Officer dropped by! Must be for our yearly IN compliance audit. I think we passed.
Actually, that's a good point, freighters. If a small fleet (3 BatRons, 5 or 6 CruRons, 8 squadrons of smaller (1 - 2.5 kdtons) escorts, with two similar-sized carriers per squadron) is self-supporting, what types of support ships would it have? I would expect hospital ships, tankers and other replenishment vessels, but even assuming that the ships can process their own fuel (using either streamlining or fuel shuttles), what would they need for support?
Actually, that's a good point, freighters. If a small fleet (3 BatRons, 5 or 6 CruRons, 8 squadrons of smaller (1 - 2.5 kdtons) escorts, with two similar-sized carriers per squadron) is self-supporting, what types of support ships would it have? I would expect hospital ships, tankers and other replenishment vessels, but even assuming that the ships can process their own fuel (using either streamlining or fuel shuttles), what would they need for support?
BrennanHawkwood
SOC-12
A thought that came to mind, more on the general subject of mercenary fleets than the specific one you are asking about...
I think I would agree with the general opinion that a mercenary fleet (defined as a large group of ships including at least some crurons/batrons) would be highly unlikey in the OTU at least within the boundries of the Imperium...at least where ownership by a corporation or individual would be concerned. The previous messages seem to imply that government ownership of capital ships was acceptable (if expensive and possibly uncommon).
Would the Imperium object to a world whose government regularly hires out its own navy as a mercenary force? It would seem to me that this could be an annoying (from the point of view of the IN) but legit loophole in the laws denying ownership of MWD to private citizens. As long as the mercenary outfit could claim to be the military arm of a world government and played nice by the Imperial Rules of Warfare, they might get away with it.
I think I would agree with the general opinion that a mercenary fleet (defined as a large group of ships including at least some crurons/batrons) would be highly unlikey in the OTU at least within the boundries of the Imperium...at least where ownership by a corporation or individual would be concerned. The previous messages seem to imply that government ownership of capital ships was acceptable (if expensive and possibly uncommon).
Would the Imperium object to a world whose government regularly hires out its own navy as a mercenary force? It would seem to me that this could be an annoying (from the point of view of the IN) but legit loophole in the laws denying ownership of MWD to private citizens. As long as the mercenary outfit could claim to be the military arm of a world government and played nice by the Imperial Rules of Warfare, they might get away with it.
Disclaimer: All my remarks follow OTU as best as I can, but naturally are ultimately IMTU.
Remember the principle of Imperial rule. The Imperium does not rule worlds, it rules the space between worlds. It is very unlikely to tolerate any threat to this rule, as a fleet of this size would be.
To ensure the above principle of rule, all major space forces in the Imperium must be under Imperial control. That's the gist of it.
A few other points:
- The Zhodani Consulate, as a far more monolithic and restrictive government, will tolerate a "mercenary fleet" within its borders even less.
- There is absolutely no purpose for such a battle fleet except fighting a major interstellar war. Major interstellar wars violate the Imperial rules of war.
- The upkeep of such a fleet would require hundreds of thousands of tons of spaceyard capacities, as well as billons of credits per year. Where do the "mercenaries" get this?
- Building the hardware for such a fleet would require trillions of credits worth of industrial work. Again, how do the "mercenaries" get this?
- The hardware concentrated in such a fleet is worth so much that several million persons could live like kings for the rest of their lives if they sold it. Why would "mercenaries" keep such a fleet?
To summarize: If such a fleet existed, it would require a massive supporting infrastructure. It would not be tolerated inside a major interstellar state. And it would have to have a raison d'etre beyond simple mercenary profit.
This leaves only the conclusion that such a fleet (with the necessary attached planet) would be an interstellar state in its own right and would be seen as such by the major players. The fleet you described is, depending on tech level, in the same ballpark as that of the Sword Worlds or Darrian (following FFW).
Regards,
Tobias
Government ownership of warships is obviously tolerated in the form of system defense squadrons. However, these seem to belong to the framework of the Imperial Navy.
Simple answer: Yes.
Remember the principle of Imperial rule. The Imperium does not rule worlds, it rules the space between worlds. It is very unlikely to tolerate any threat to this rule, as a fleet of this size would be.
To ensure the above principle of rule, all major space forces in the Imperium must be under Imperial control. That's the gist of it.
A few other points:
- The Zhodani Consulate, as a far more monolithic and restrictive government, will tolerate a "mercenary fleet" within its borders even less.
- There is absolutely no purpose for such a battle fleet except fighting a major interstellar war. Major interstellar wars violate the Imperial rules of war.
- The upkeep of such a fleet would require hundreds of thousands of tons of spaceyard capacities, as well as billons of credits per year. Where do the "mercenaries" get this?
- Building the hardware for such a fleet would require trillions of credits worth of industrial work. Again, how do the "mercenaries" get this?
- The hardware concentrated in such a fleet is worth so much that several million persons could live like kings for the rest of their lives if they sold it. Why would "mercenaries" keep such a fleet?
To summarize: If such a fleet existed, it would require a massive supporting infrastructure. It would not be tolerated inside a major interstellar state. And it would have to have a raison d'etre beyond simple mercenary profit.
This leaves only the conclusion that such a fleet (with the necessary attached planet) would be an interstellar state in its own right and would be seen as such by the major players. The fleet you described is, depending on tech level, in the same ballpark as that of the Sword Worlds or Darrian (following FFW).
Regards,
Tobias
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
Hey - just look at hunter signature!!!!....Its my rules, its my game, I am da Boss, so I can do anything I want to as GM...Hunter says I can...SO THERE....NANNER NANNER NANNER!!!!!
TRADER JIMS FLEET HAS MANY MANT SPINAL MOUNTS!!!
CAUSE THEY ARE BIG BOYS!!!! SO THERE!!!
TRADER JIMS FLEET HAS MANY MANT SPINAL MOUNTS!!!
CAUSE THEY ARE BIG BOYS!!!! SO THERE!!!
Been at the medicinal snake oil again I see..Originally posted by trader jim:
Hey - just look at hunter signature!!!!....Its my rules, its my game, I am da Boss, so I can do anything I want to as GM...Hunter says I can...SO THERE....NANNER NANNER NANNER!!!!!
TRADER JIMS FLEET HAS MANY MANT SPINAL MOUNTS!!!
CAUSE THEY ARE BIG BOYS!!!! SO THERE!!!
