Melee Weapons Questions

[Luddite]

1) When rolling for double damage from critical hits, should a player roll twice as many dice or roll one set and double the "pips" on each one?

Even though a crit is supposed to by pass armour (and most likely kill someone), are there any cases when even though there is a critical hit, you may still be adding or removing dice. For example, if a personel weapon crits against a vehicle, do you still reduce the "dice" by 5.

2) Blade, Foil, Cutlas, Sword...

The Blade seems in line with the Short Sword from the d20 SRD. The Sword, I would assume to be the "Long Sword" and should be 1d8(19). The Cutlas is the "Rapier" and should be 1d6(18). Otherwise there is no reason for a player to have a sword, since the cutlas is cheaper and does more damage for a medium melee weapon.

Even though the TL of the Sword is 1 vs. the TL 3 of the Cutlass, but that only means backwards worlds would not be using cutlasses.

The Foil is also useless since it is also a medium priecing weapon that does 1d4(18) vs the Cutlass's 1d8(18). Shouldn't the Fiol be a Small weapon and thus in line with the Blade?

-The Luddite

 

[BluWolf]

I can answer the first part. From the D20 SRD;

Multiplying Damage
Sometimes a character multiplies damage by some factor, such as when a character scores a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.

I have not seen the info on melee weapons in T20. can't comment on that.

 

[lord irial]

I just plan on using the low-tech weapons from D&D3e, myself. Makes it easier on me and my players, frankly, since we're familiar with the system.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

I would think the Vehicle vs. Person modifier would remain the same even against a critical.

After all -That- conversion is one of scale. not armour or evasive capability.

 

[Simon Jester]

Originally posted by Luddite:
1) When rolling for double damage from critical hits, should a player roll twice as many dice or roll one set and double the "pips" on each one?

You roll the dice damage dice twice, then add any damage modifiers to the resulting total. Or at least that's the way my group has been playing it.

Even though a crit is supposed to by pass armour (and most likely kill someone), are there any cases when even though there is a critical hit, you may still be adding or removing dice. For example, if a personel weapon crits against a vehicle, do you still reduce the "dice" by 5.

Yes, if the GM allows personal melee weapons a chance of scoring a crit against vehicles at all.

2) Blade, Foil, Cutlas, Sword...

The Blade seems in line with the Short Sword from the d20 SRD. The Sword, I would assume to be the "Long Sword" and should be 1d8(19). The Cutlass is the "Rapier" and should be 1d6(18). Otherwise there is no reason for a player to have a sword, since the cutlass is cheaper and does more damage for a medium melee weapon.

The cutlass is most like the falchion or the saber, not the rapier. It is a slashing weapon whereas the rapier is a piercing weapon.

Even though the TL of the Sword is 1 vs. the TL 3 of the Cutlass, but that only means backwards worlds would not be using cutlasses.

The Foil is also useless since it is also a medium piercing weapon that does 1d4(18) vs the Cutlass's 1d8(18). Shouldn't the Foil be a Small weapon and thus in line with the Blade?

-The Luddite

No. The Foil is most like the rapier, usually a meter or more in length and designed almost entirely for piercing attacks. It could be said to be the larger, higher-tech version of the blade.

Simon Jester

 

[DrSkull]

Critical hits, you roll the damage dice twice and add the bonuses twice too.

So a sword hit by a guy with Str 14 will do 2d8+4 on a critical.

Critical hits ignore armor, and scaling personal weapons against vehicles works like armor, but it isn't armor.

So Battleaxe Bob swings at an air/raft and scores a critical hit. His 2d8+4 is reduced by 5 levels. THe first level drops one of the d8s, the other 4 levels drop the +4, so he will still do 1d8 points of damage (Mr Axe, meet Mr Control panel).

 

[scurry]

I hope I am not belaboring the obvious, but I think I missed the part about crits bypassing AR on Lifeforce damage.

Could someone please point those out to me? What page in the THB is that talked about? This is sounding REALLY dangerous. A single crit for a standard fire arm could do 22 points. That's death for all of my players.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Luddite]

Originally posted by scurry:
I hope I am not belaboring the obvious, but I think I missed the part about crits bypassing AR on Lifeforce damage.

Could someone please point those out to me? What page in the THB is that talked about? This is sounding REALLY dangerous. A single crit for a standard fire arm could do 22 points. That's death for all of my players.

Thanks for the help!

It is hidden in a different places. (I have realized that some rules end up in odd places. Healing damage is with medical Equipement. where as in DnD it is under combat.)

p 151 : Under Attack Actions

Critical Hits: In addition to the normal effects of a critical hit, the armor of a target is also ignored and the target takes the full damage roll against its Lifeblood or Structural Integrity rating.

So the one question that is being debated : Is the 5 dice "shift" between Personnel/Vehicle/Ships considered Armor Rating to be ignored by a Critical?

-The Luddite

 

[Luddite]

2) Blade, Foil, Cutlas, Sword...

The Blade seems in line with the Short Sword from the d20 SRD. The Sword, I would assume to be the "Long Sword" and should be 1d8(19). The Cutlass is the "Rapier" and should be 1d6(18). Otherwise there is no reason for a player to have a sword, since the cutlass is cheaper and does more damage for a medium melee weapon.

The cutlass is most like the falchion or the saber, not the rapier. It is a slashing weapon whereas the rapier is a piercing weapon.

Even though the TL of the Sword is 1 vs. the TL 3 of the Cutlass, but that only means backwards worlds would not be using cutlasses.

The Foil is also useless since it is also a medium piercing weapon that does 1d4(18) vs the Cutlass's 1d8(18). Shouldn't the Foil be a Small weapon and thus in line with the Blade?

-The Luddite

No. The Foil is most like the rapier, usually a meter or more in length and designed almost entirely for piercing attacks. It could be said to be the larger, higher-tech version of the blade.

Simon Jester

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Okay...I dont want to get in to the subtle argument of "What is a 'Rapier'?" A sword is a sowrd.

But....

From a purely mechanical view, There is very little reason for a player to use a Foil or Sword when a Cutlass is availiable. There may be a few times when Piercing damage may be better then slashing, but for the most part, it does not matter.

So to rephrase my question....Is it intentional to make the Cutlass vastly supperior to the Sword and Foil?

-The Luddite

 

[DrSkull]

I think it is intentional. Cutlasses were better than Swords in Classic Traveller. In "The Traveller Book" the cutlass even did an extra die of damage. Foils have always stunk on ice in Traveller, it's bettter to use a lead pipe.

 

[Liam Devlin]

"And then a certain Scots-Irish barbarian Imperial Lord of my acquaintance, hollered-"ERIN Go Bragh!", with his basket-hilted claymore(cutlass) as they stormed thru the Corsair's airlock...

from the excerpts of "My Life at the Scout Bar", Shaney Llawe, Hefry/Regina/SM, circa 1112.

 

[eclipse]

The batons listed in TA1, I'd use brawling feat for those.

Anybody got a different take?

How about a plain old staff. Your basic 2 meter lenght of hard wood.

Interesting enough, left out of TA1 (and I never noticed it until yesterday).

Having to use the Pole Arm weapons pro feat seems ugly to me.

I would go with a Weapons Pro (martial arts) feat. Include bo staff, nunchuka, escrima sticks , knives and short swords (blade).

 

[Ellros]

Weapons ProfArmsman) seems to cover any weapon other than a firearm or sword/blade type.
One of my players is really keen on the boarding axe. Since the description in TA1 says it has a spike at the other end, I'm allowing him to use it as a double weapon (his D&D character is really mean with an urgosh).

 

[themink]

Originally posted by Ellros:
the boarding axe. Since the description in TA1 says it has a spike at the other end, I'm allowing him to use it as a double weapon (his D&D character is really mean with an urgosh).

I imagine the spike is meant to be on the back of the head rather than on the handle. But I haven;t read the description so I could be wrong.

Remember that Double weapons are virtually unused in the realworld/ traveller - Unless you like them, in which case have them proliferate across your traveler universe -

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by eclipse:
The batons listed in TA1, I'd use brawling feat for those.

Anybody got a different take?

How about a plain old staff. Your basic 2 meter lenght of hard wood.

Interesting enough, left out of TA1 (and I never noticed it until yesterday).

Having to use the Pole Arm weapons pro feat seems ugly to me.

I would go with a Weapons Pro (martial arts) feat. Include bo staff, nunchuka, escrima sticks , knives and short swords (blade).

Answering my own question here, it's clear in TA#1 the baton and staff count as cudgels (see page 7).

Also the size of the typical baton matches the approximate size of the improvised weapons covered by the brawling feat, so I would allow baton use from the brawling feat.

I just can't see any military character from a TL 5+ world taking the weapons pro (armsman) feat unless he was a historical reenactment buff.

 

[themink]

Originally posted by eclipse:

I just can't see any military character from a TL 5+ world taking the weapons pro (armsman) feat unless he was a historical reenactment buff.

Or expected to be fighting with a high law level without breaking the law, or wanted to carry a truely undetectable weapon (ie wooden club), or wanted to play on worlds with low tech levels and a non-intervention treaty or did a martial art for the mental rigor it provided or wanted to be a combat wombat in every circumstance or lived a society which allow duelling with swords or lots and lots of other reasons.

Stun batons and nightsticks are useful police weapons at high law levels.