Megacorporations

[mike wightman]

A discussion on another thread made me read the SuSAG article in JTAS 16 again.

Some interesting bits:

The Imperium has the power to tax megacorporations and regulate certain of their actions. SuSAG's power, in certain areas, is probably equal to the Imperium's.

Implications:
- some megacorp activities are unregulated (which ones???);
- taken together, all of the megacorporations could overwhelm the Imperium (in certain areas... ).

Unlike most other megacorporations, few worlds are under SuSAG direct control.

Implication:
- many worlds are under the direct control of megacorporations (how many is "many"???).

This makes me wonder, once again, where the balance of political power within the Imperium lies?

 

[robject]

IMTU,

the balance of political and military power lies with the Imperial government;

"many" worlds means "more than ten"

;

megacorps do not cooperate, and often harm themselves through ignorance.

 

[Flynn]

It does explain many of those worlds with a Corporate world government, though...

-Flynn

 

[kaladorn]

Some math geek could tell you how often the Corp gov't type comes up. Note that it usually comes up on low pop worlds, so balance of power still sides with the population and their representatives, the Imperial Gov't. Also, the Imperial Military could whomp any Megacorp's force.

But by opposing the Govt vs. Megacorps, you miss something important: Most megacorps are largely held by various nobles, Imperial and otherwise. The Imperial family owns sizeable parts of most megacorps and is probably married or otherwise tied into others.

They really do enjoy a symbiotic relationship: Trade thrives in a stable Imperium. Chaos and Collapse impede trade.

 

[Ranger]

As I recall, there were two seperate bases of power in the pre-imperium era; the comercial nobility dominated by the old Vilani families and the political/military elite dominated by the Solomani nobility. Cleon was able to somewhat unify these two factions in his clime to power, but the basic distinction would probably persist (even though many Megacorps are Solomani family owned and many important political/military nobels are Vilani by 1100). Each faction probably sees itself as the core power of the empire and the other as a self serving free rider.

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Implication:
- many worlds are under the direct control of megacorporations (how many is "many"???).

I may have to move this to its own thread for discussion.

This is reposted from the "Fleet" group as I didn't see that Sigg had moved the discussion.

I don't consider myself a "math geek," but by a quick analysis of the LBB3 world generation rules, I calculate that around 6.19% of all the worlds in a TRAVELLER universe should have government type "1" (corporate-owned). How many of those are owned by megacorps is hard to judge but I'd guess a majority, since the megacorps have the most money. That should put one megacorp-owned planet per subsector, roughly.

If my calculations were correct, that is....

 

[kaladorn]

Since you didn't 'show your work', it'd be hard to know. I was thinking a trawl with one of the databases might give us 'real' (yah ish) data.

As to the point: Undoubtedly, in minor ways, the Megacorps view the Imperium as a source of interference and competition, and the Imperium's government view Megacorps as contenders for power trying to get away with stuff.

But the reality that any of them know (and you don't run a megacorp or an empire for long being naive) is that disruptions to the larger social fabric (such as the various wars, etc) have trade consequences as well as financial ones for the empire.

Taxation and Imperial wealth are closely tied to trade volume. Corporate success is too. They clearly really have the same aspirations: Increase trade to increase the general revenue stream - this applies both to the Empire and the Corp. The approach to HOW you carry this out will be different and the WHY might well be different too if you are not a Political Realist and actually believe in ethics/morality/etc. in larger scale political thinking. But the essential need to both have a stable environment (or at most minor localized instability) gives them powerful reasons to be mutually supporting.

We're not talking about merchant traders on the frontier grabbing a quick buck. We're talking about Megacorps who probably find it more cost effective to have the Navy covering their assets than they would if they had to defend them themselves. Similarly, the Imperium knows that it needs the Corps to provide some coordination of trade and as larger societal stabilizing forces and economic ones.

Hence, they are two pillars of the same fortress. Sometimes they may lean a little apart, but by en large, if either leans too far, the house collapses and they both know that.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Let's not forget that Cleon Zhunastu founded the Imperium while at the head of the largest corporation in human space, Zhunastu Heavy Industries. That corporation was the foundation of his fabulous wealth, and was, IMO anyway, a major fraction of his power base.

Cleon didn't abandon or give away those interests upon ascending the throne. 1100 years later, the Imperial Family must still hold the descendant interests in that company.

IMTU, Imperial Family is a term that means both the family of the Emperor, and the holding corporation that controls their corporate and financial assets descended from Zhunastu Heavy Industries, skimming a share off the top of total Imperial Taxes for 1100 years, and automatic rights to LIC corporate stock). It's bigger than any one of the normal Megacorporations, but is smaller than all of the others put together. It is a major tool of the Emperor in exercising the Imperial Mandate. Even though it wields far less military might at the IN/IM, it has enormous economic might.

IMTU, the Imperial Mandate (I call it Imperial Authority) stems from a triple crown of the Imperial Family holding corporation, the Imperial Services (IN, IM, IA, IISS, and the covert I3 and ISS), and the Imperial Bureaucracy. These are often viewed as the personal forces of the Emperor. The Imperial Services and Imperial Bureaucracy are all, however, shot through at the command levels with nobles of every stripe, from those who do support the Emperor, to those who do not, and everyone in between (the Emperor and his allies attempt to keep the upper hand at all times, of course). The Imperial Family holding corporation, though, is almost entirely allied with the Emperor, because its corporate structure makes it easier to hire and fire whoever is desirable.

Also IMTU, The Imperial Family holding corporation is the largest military ship and vehicle builder in the Imperium (completely unsurprising, considering that the line of Emperors would have undoubtedly wished to keep the majority of that activity well within "the family").

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by The Oz:
I don't consider myself a "math geek," but by a quick analysis of the LBB3 world generation rules, I calculate that around 6.19% of all the worlds in a TRAVELLER universe should have government type "1" (corporate-owned). How many of those are owned by megacorps is hard to judge but I'd guess a majority, since the megacorps have the most money. That should put one megacorp-owned planet per subsector, roughly.

I would say that none of them are owned by megacorporations, since I think any megacorporate-owned world would have a government type 6.

Well... maybe some of them are run by megacorporate subsidiaries and maybe some megacorporate-owned worlds would still retain an outward government structure different from type 6.


Hans

 

[jatay3]

Icon 1 posted February 11, 2005 07:53 AMFebruary 11, 2005 07:53 AM Profile for Sigg Oddra Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote A discussion on another thread made me read the SuSAG article in JTAS 16 again.

Some interesting bits:
quote:The Imperium has the power to tax megacorporations and regulate certain of their actions. SuSAG's power, in certain areas, is probably equal to the Imperium's.Implications:
- some megacorp activities are unregulated (which ones???);
- taken together, all of the megacorporations could overwhelm the Imperium (in certain areas... [Wink] ).
quote:Unlike most other megacorporations, few worlds are under SuSAG direct control.Implication:
- many worlds are under the direct control of megacorporations (how many is "many"???).

This makes me wonder, once again, where the balance of political power within the Imperium lies?
========================================
Who knows exactly where the balance of power lies.
However the Imperium has almost all the force: that is a fact underestimated by many who claim that megacorps run things. What the megas have is two things. Economic power and influence. They can threaten planets with embargos,etc: though this is tricky as if they become to annoying kaboom. Like the East India Company on Earth. The English government tolerated them because they were a cheap and plausibly deniable source of political power. When their incompetance nearly destroyed the empire they were dethroned by act of parliment.
They can also get an "in" with some important political figure. The effect of this is hard to measure and depends on a lot of variables including the individual personalties of those involved which is the greatest variable of all.
In any case the Megas are primarily looking for money. While the processes of gaining money and gaining power have simmilarities(which is one reason I think that merchant-states like Venice, or England or for that matter the Imperium make remarkably good strategists)the objectives diverge and a "money" grand poobah is not as powerful as a "power" grand poobah given roughly equal resources.
The megas add another balance to the Imperium and therefore their existence is roughly positive(which hardly means that they are positive in any given time and place). That is if there was only the Emperor it would be awful and if there was only the megas it would also be awful, though less so as it is easier to oppress with direct force.
Thus after my long and boring speech
I come to my conclusion:
it depends

 

[jatay3]

That is if there was only the Emperor it would be awful and if there was only the megas it would also be awful,
----------------------------
of course if the Imperium were to suddenly dissappear , all the political power would devolve onto the Megas who would immidiatly form states of their own and fight for supremacy, so a system with only the megas would be impossible as they would no longer have the form we know and tolerate.

 

[alanb]

To a very great degree the people that own the megacorps also own the Imperium.

Conflicts between the two really are conflicts between a single Imperial faction and the organisation that more or less represents the joint interests of all the Imperial factions.

 

[kaladorn]

Here's another point to ponder: Some smaller shareholders own chunks of local corps. Which, indirectly, help to form part of the basis of Megacorp power and wealth. So, truthfully, the Megacorps by virtue of having Noble shareholders and friends, have ties to the Imperium. Similarly, they have ties to the more diffuse 'general population'. This is more a web than pillars. And it is a symbiotic one, though it gets a bit 'out of whack' at times and a correction eventually ensues.

 

[mike wightman]

Oddly this makes the Megacorporations more democratic than the Imperium itself.
Providing that shareholders in the future have similar rights as they do today.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Therefore Imperial issues and mega corp issues are often very similar and they may share and serve similar intrests.

 

[selunatic2397]

I own some stock in the Kroger company. Every so often i get a packet in the mail asking for my votes on assorted company stuff. There is the usual stuff but I always see motions brought up by a group of shareholders seeking to change the term limits on the directors, authorize an independent audit, or something similar. I also have the right to attend the annual shareholders meetings in person if I so choose. I would assume these are the same rights the shareholders in the future would have. Although actually attending an annual meeting held in the next system would be easier than one held in the next sector. I usually just cash the little dividend checks [Wheee a whole ten dollars!] and check off my choices before sending in my proxy vote form. And while I could get a bunch of shareholder together to propose new business or a motion forward...I kinda think I would have the proverbial snowballs chance in hell of actually succeeding.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

That's depends on just how important it is to you.... For most of us (like you), it just isn't earthshattering enough to worry about. And, probably more so in OTU.

 

[kaladorn]

And maybe a lot of the megacorps are registered in the OTU version of West Virginia or whichever state give shareholders the least rights...