Medium Ship Universe

[Vladika]

TCS is simply a flawed system if it assigns production purely on the UWP's tech level alone. ( which it does, iirc )
The entire tech level issue has its own problems in that it is used to mean 2 different things simultaneously; common availability on one hand, and local means of production on the other.

TCS Uses an admittedly simplistic methodology. It's for game playability and not RW modeling. As such it takes and averages quite a bit.

In a game I see no problem with simple.

Try finding two economists here on earth who can agree on anything. Additionally, if any of them know what they are talking about, why is the world economy such a shambles?

I think, under the circumstances, its asking a lot to have CT through T5 (Including TCS and Striker) to model perfection, or even close.

If you can do a better, working game scenario, please post it. Better yet, get in touch with your counties leaders and fix it for real.

 

[HG_B]

Try finding two economists here on earth who can agree on anything. Additionally, if any of them know what they are talking about, why is the world economy such a shambles?

So much for "experts"...

 

[sabredog]

I limit the size of ships that can land on a 1G world, regardless of the drive size to 5k or smaller. That has tended to make larger ships less appealing as adventure class ships, and things like Free Traders, Type R's, etc. more important to trade than before since unless the bulk carrier has its own tenders carried on board, it can't be be serviced by a starport unless there are tenders and other craft for loading/off-loading.

For practical reasons, then, the major freight companies keep to well-established routes, and the feeders off of those are used by small companies running carriers of about 2000 tons and below, averaging around 600-800.

Military craft, well, those run the gamut, all the way up to 500k battlecarriers, but for the most part the warships where the players tend to live are of the smaller and more numerous variety.

So overall, while I don't exclude Big Ships, they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[HG_B]

I limit the size of ships that can land on a 1G world, regardless of the drive size to 5k or smaller.

What group of players can afford to buy a ship >5,000 dtons??? I wanna play in your game!

 

[sabredog]

They can't buy one, but they have occasionally had one as a temporary command depending on the campaign we wanted to run, large extended exploration ships and the like. What I mean is, adventure class as in the ships adventures tend to orient around or involve.

Players rarely end up dealing with or being part of ships any larger than that and usually no larger than 600-800 tons because the usual upper end is 5000 tons for 90% of the ships out there.

 

[Vladika]

They can't buy one, but they have occasionally had one as a temporary command depending on the campaign we wanted to run, large extended exploration ships and the like. What I mean is, adventure class as in the ships adventures tend to orient around or involve.

Players rarely end up dealing with or being part of ships any larger than that and usually no larger than 600-800 tons because the usual upper end is 5000 tons for 90% of the ships out there.

I think it would be interesting too see PCs try to manage the month to month expenses on a 5000dT ship.:nonono:

 

[sabredog]

Then it was a good thing that the ship involved was owned and operated by a larger consortium that only contracted the players to form the command crew while exploring some world s looking for new markets to exploit. They provided the required bean counters for the expedition so the players could concentrate more on adventuring rather than playing some Traveller version of Accountants & Pursers.

 

[Ishmael]

TCS Uses an admittedly simplistic methodology. It's for game playability and not RW modeling. As such it takes and averages quite a bit.

In a game I see no problem with simple.

Try finding two economists here on earth who can agree on anything. Additionally, if any of them know what they are talking about, why is the world economy such a shambles?

I think, under the circumstances, its asking a lot to have CT through T5 (Including TCS and Striker) to model perfection, or even close.

If you can do a better, working game scenario, please post it. Better yet, get in touch with your counties leaders and fix it for real.

There is a difference between 'simple' and 'inaccurate'. This difference is why those systems were de-canonized. I merely contend that there is a better alternative within Traveller that is better; PE.

It is hard to find agreement between people who discuss and study chaotic systems as to exactly which inputs and values will give desired results. Try finding 2 weather forecasters who can agree on exact conditions a month from now. Due to weather being a chaotic system, forecasts beyond a certain time frame are probabilistic crapshoots.

As far as why the world's present economy is in a bad way, that cannot be answered in detail without breaking board rules about recent politics and policies. Suffice to say that too many people/entities were trying to 'game the system' while looking to relatively short term gains at the expense of long term stability. If anything, it should be an example of the possibilities of outcomes should economics be used as a weapon against other systems. Psycho-history and market warfare should be good for an adventure hook or two.

If I can do better, the post it?
Pocket Empires There. That was easy.

Contact my country's leaders and fix it for real?
WUT? What does that have to do with playing an RPG?

<--- removes the target from my back for being different, and walks away for now.

 

[rancke]

There is a difference between 'simple' and 'inaccurate'.

Not if the inaccuracy is overshadowed by the unknowables. Striker may be inaccurate, but that doesn't prove that PE is better. I know for a fact (because he told me so) that professional economist Jim McLean believed that PE was wrong (I'm afraid I can't tell you just what Jim thought was wrong with it; he either didn't tell me the details or I've forgotten them).

This difference is why those systems were de-canonized.

Did Marc Miller tell you so? Because that's not at all the reason I had gathered for the decanonization, but as I'm basing my take on secondary sources, I could be wrong. Do you know for a fact that you're right?

I merely contend that there is a better alternative within Traveller that is better; PE.

I have to concede that there is an alternative. (I was going to argue that the canonicity of a system that had not been used in later Traveller versions was questionable, but it appears that it, or something close to it, is in T5). I shall have to look into that.


Hans

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I have a very specific question about military budgets from original Striker rules:

In the past in my simulations, I converted local military budget to be "Standard" military budget (TL15 Starport A) when giving/determining contributions to the Imperium as a whole. I designed and determined local forces based on what you could make/buy locally with local credits. Imports were based on the "Standard" Credit conversion

Was this a sound practice? I ask as one of my knowledge gaps is economics.

 

[aramis]

I have a very specific question about military budgets from original Striker rules:

In the past in my simulations, I converted local military budget to be "Standard" military budget (TL15 Starport A) when giving/determining contributions to the Imperium as a whole. I designed and determined local forces based on what you could make/buy locally with local credits. Imports were based on the "Standard" Credit conversion

Was this a sound practice? I ask as one of my knowledge gaps is economics.

It's the express mechanics in striker; those credit conversion rules appear elsewhere, as well. It is a bit of a double whammy, tho'.

 

[Carlobrand]

There is a difference between 'simple' and 'inaccurate'. This difference is why those systems were de-canonized. I merely contend that there is a better alternative within Traveller that is better; PE. ...

Unfortunately, that doesn't much help those of us who don't have it. What about it makes you think it's a better system? How easily does it translate to the CT setting? How simple/complicated is it? Having spent money on the GURPS merchant bookie and been slightly less than thrilled with my acquisition (it's okay, but for something this complicated to generate results that need tweaking does not leave me impressed), I am inclined to be cautious about purchases outside of the CT family.

And, frankly I'm still struggling with the idea that there can be such a thing as accuracy when trying to model a (mostly) fusion-based FTL economy stretching across - 11,000 systems? - separated by week-plus travel lags and tech levels varying from stone-age to AI robotics. Or, for that matter, whether there's a need for extremes of accuracy when creating an economic model for a world generation system that gives us places like Pixie. If something simple and easy can put it within a quarter mile of the right ballpark, it should satisfy most game needs; if something's going to make me work, it should not also leave me needing to tweak.