Louzy and the Population:Gravity dilemma

[Ulsyus]

Thanks Hans, that takes it to the rub-point: why did the Louzans want kids at that rate? That's a cultural consideration that probably needs some thought.

The first thing that springs to mind is that there were a lot of settlers early on from a cultural group that was in danger of disappearing. When they arrived they saw large families, on a world that could take as many as they wanted to have, as a way to achieve this. Do it for a few generations and it starts to become tradition. Do it until after the boom times have occurred, and there's a population problem even if families only replace themselves by that stage. Even a population decline could take some time to significantly decrease the number of people on the world.

 

[Selandia]

Shade of an old discussion on Rethe (my holding as Count of the Spinward Marches, I am Lord Rethe). At least Louzy is not a desert world.

My working is that a mining world (as Rethe and Louzy) have aplenty of nearly free tunnel spaces.

A world with water (Lucky you, Rethe is desert) has no bone with hydroponic food. Native vegetation is even quite possible and it is up to you to make it edible. Native vegie may mean native edible flesh.

Even if only 1% of the pop is "filty rich" and 10 % is "rich" a world with billions of population has a huge market for luxury import, including food, and even expensives space habitats (when compared with tunnels) will find takers for "heaven in the sky " type of closed gate communities. Occasionnal consumption by the middle class also contribute to luxury trade. I love luxury trade as plots for it could involve not otherwise rationnal trade paterns and justify trade route and adventures.

I justify the low end starports for world with billions or consumer/Producer by the following rational: Public spaceport/starport are E or D because trading and industrial conglomerates use their private starport for business and have the government of Rethe enforce a "we will not spend public money on starport when private business offer the service, just pay the price they ask to dock at their port" Policy

As the man that is bribed by the conglomerates to enforce their monopoly, I (well my RPC -RefPC-) enjoy that policy.

Of course, the point is to have fun, so whatever work your game is fine with me.

Selandia

 

[Ulsyus]

Public spaceport/starport are E or D because trading and industrial conglomerates use their private starport for business and have the government of Rethe enforce a "we will not spend public money on starport when private business offer the service, just pay the price they ask to dock at their port" Policy

What's the canon on private starports? When does the Imperial SPA not run a starport on a systems main world? Why would they abrogate that element of 3I presence and interest on a world - if it's only a small corporate presence (think Nakege/Jewell/Spinward Marches) or similar?

 

[Aramais]

This is a question I've been wondering about myself - I attached a spreadsheet to this post that analyses the Spinward Marches for all planets that meet a Native Life status under the T5 criteria. Total came to 128 sophont species in the Spinward Marches alone.

That makes the T5 Traveller universe look very different to the OTU if, as the rules seem to imply we need to generate a Sophont species if the criteria are met (in a similar way to applying a trade classification).

I'm not sure if that was an intended effect of the rules; Referee fiat applies to all universes and campaigns, of course and MM can decide freely the OTU doesn't apply the rules that way (although this leads to the curious situation where the person ultimately responsible for the rules that shape the game doesn't end up using them).

The intent of my post here is to help out a fellow Referee apply their fiat.

My view is that NIL is POSSIBLE if not probable. However, there is something else to be made clear: the table only says that NIL "developed." It does NOT require an assumption that the current billions of people are the NIL. In line with current realizations, the NIL could have evolved -- and died off -- 300,000 years ago.

I go with something simpler for Louzy: The human TL is sufficient (if just barely) to produce the necessary life support -- which, due to its low-tech design, requires constant maintenance and service. Life support TL alone may reach as high as 9, despite the general TL of 8. There are old ruins somewhere of a prior NIL which had a brief twenty thousand years of sentience with a glorious burst of technology. That burst of technology was the doom of the NIL; they played with atomic fission and made the mistakes the Terrans barely avoided in the the twentieth and twenty-first centuries (old reckoning). They poisoned their air and water. Within a generation, they were gone.

Five hundred thousand year has made the atmosphere somewhat more livable, but not entirely reduced the radiation. Fortunately, humans are less fragile than the long extinct NIL.

 

[OjnoTheRed]

Aramais, I like you're thinking; a flexible way of interpreting the situation. But I really think the T5 rules read in a more dogmatic way.

Native Status
Most worlds capable of supporting native intelligent life NIL have a (or had a now-extinct) population of sophonts. The chart identifies the status of such sophonts.

The chart on page 436 then specifies that "Intelligent life evolved on this world" if Pop 7+, Atm 2-9, TL 1+; and that "Intelligent life evolved on this world, but is now extinct" (my emphasis) if Pop 0, Atm 2+, TL 1+. (There are other combinations, I just wanted to highlight these two). The two statuses of "Natives" and "Extinct" (respectively) seem to be drawn directly from UWPs.

But having said this, I think your way of doing is better than the rules!

I'm also of the view that even if we accept the (more dogmatic) approach of the rules, we are not bound as to how the populations of non-native and native sophonts are balanced; the native sophonts may be in a clear minority (e.g. tens of thousands out of billions) and only significant as a curiosity. They may also be an oppressed minority; or a majority, and so on. It depends on the needs of your campaign.

 

[Selandia]

What's the canon on private starports? When does the Imperial SPA not run a starport on a systems main world? Why would they abrogate that element of 3I presence and interest on a world - if it's only a small corporate presence (think Nakege/Jewell/Spinward Marches) or similar?

canon, t5 master text p.308

"The Port Authority. Regardless of the local government in power on the world, the governing authority for the
starport is the Port Authority. Financed by a variety of charges
and levies on passengers, cargo, and ships, the Authority
uses its money to build and maintain its facilities, and to
provide variety of services. Like starports, Port Authorities
vary widely in structure and approach to their responsibilities.
Some are strong corporate organizations devoted to
the pursuit of profit; others are non-profit organizations which
view their responsibilities more as services to the citizenry;
yet others consider themselves a quasi-official arm of local
government."

We unsually play (or talk) as if the 3I will force any significant system to allows for star trade and will run a starport as a 3I key political purpose . In fact, in T5 (p.304 and following) a starport is such a valuable asset that the 3I do not need to enforce its existence and there are no indication that it runs it. So we play that any populated 3I world will have one "public" starport (a class E landing pad at least), were Imperial law will apply and any peacefull trader will be welcome . Now, outside the extra territoriality fence, the local autorities might or might not run an extensive communication system and enforce or not abrasive, even discouraging regulation (aka non-tariff bariers) for free trader, chocking business as much as they can get away with.

Again on p.308


The Mission of the Starport
The starport, as an organization, is committed to a mission
(that mission may or may not be clearly or publicly stated).
Typical missions are:
To efficiently provide facilities and services necessary
to accommodate interplanetary and interstellar traffic
for this world.
To produce a maximum of income for the organization
which operates this starport.
To insulate this world, to the maximum extent possible,
from outside influences.
To meet the minimum requirements for maintaining
interstellar trade.

That a TL8 system with approx 33 billions inhabitants like Rethe provide only a class E starport for your free trader need an explaination. Politico-corporate tampering with free trade is mine for Rethe.

have fun

Selandia

 

[Supplement Four]

T5 p447 indicates a Siz 3 world has 0.375g. Given that gravitic technology isn't mainstream until TL10...

Here's a thought, if nobody brought it up already.

In CT, then also in MT, DGP published the Grand Census/Survey and World Builder books. I love their take on technology.

There, it was said that the TL of a world is not consistent for every type of item or area. It is the general TL that most of the population enjoys (or suffers).

On some worlds, as you get out away from the starport, the TL drops. Or, the reverse is true. The TL of the world increases around the starport (if the TL is below TL A).

The DGP books would allow Refs to create a more detailed TL for a world. Yes, the TL in the UWP would be the predominate TL. But, the world may exceed that or fall below it in certain areas. For example, a water world, even though TL 7, would not probably have TL 7 ground craft. But its watercraft could easily exceed TL 7 by a point or two.

All of this is a long way to say (in response to your OP): Even though Louzy is TL 8, the world could very well have TL A gravitics technology. The high population probably (demands) exists on standard grav plating in the buildings.

Since it is so important to them, gravitics is probably one of their highest TL engineering areas.





Side Thought: How do you pronounce "Louzy". I say, "lousy", like the original settlers through the place was just gawd-aful.

 

[Ulsyus]

Good idea S4. I'd pulled out my old World Builder's Handbook a while back and had a look at the sheet with the different area's TL listings. I'd thought I would see if I could stay away from that idea only because it was a couple of TLs above their listed level, but there's no reason they couldn't have it in parts of the planet such as in wealthier vs poorer areas.

As it stands, I had some vignette material ready for the players when they got to Louzy (which I've been pronouncing Lew-zee though one of the players got fixated on Lau-zee) but they didn't stay for long, blowing past on their way to Nakege. I may have to draw them back there at a later point just to use more of the ideas developed here.