Long range stunner

[Todg]

Current stun weapons like the taser are limited to relativel short ranges due to the need to pass current down wires. This patent suggests it may be possible to build a taser like weapon with a much longer effective range (the figure qoated is 150m)

http://tinyurl.com/hozo8

 

[Border Reiver]

I've also seen proposals which include electrolasers which passes current down ionized air, a water cannon using salt water to conduct current, and a shotgun round that carries a self contained stun charge out to around 70m.

But 150m is very impressive.

 

[Icosahedron]

I use 'taser rounds' IMTU down to Snub pistol calibre, but I never specified exactly how they work. I wonder if the piezo system is smaller/better than the capacitor system?

 

[Maladominus]

Wouldn't a long range tranquilizer rifle or carbine be more efficient?

Of course, the rifle isn't the issue. It's the tranquilizer round as an INSTANTLY INCAPACITATING ammo that is the issue. What we need is the technology to have tranq rounds that will penetrate armor and react upon contact with the human tissue in a couple of seconds! Completely dropping the target (or render him unconsciouss) in 1 or 2 seconds or less. Hmm, do we already have tranqs that act that fast? Anyone have the answer?


P.S. --- what I just described I how I pretty much imagine the TL10 Snub Pistol to work IMTU. The tranq rounds are very high tech, and thus it has the ability to drop the target near-instantly. Since one combat round in Traveller is 15 seconds, a snub pistol tranq round that hits a target, that target will go down before he can take another action in the next combat round.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

One of the many problems with tranq is that the KE required to get a decent range and/or penetration makes them potentially lethal at short range.

 

[far-trader]

Tranqs, currently at least and as I understand it, have one major problem when it comes to safe incapacitation. Dosage. You can load it for average and kill a child or only annoy a big threat. Or you go light and need multiple hits. And individuals may respond differently to the tranq even when the dosage is sufficient.

And any round that will defeat personal armor to deliver the tranq will be a lethal round to anyone not wearing personal armor. Another thing not wanted for the situations where non-lethal force is desired.

 

[far-trader]

I'm not sure I see a big need for a long range incapcitating round. Most law enforcement encounters are at very close range and well within the range of the proven tech of wired stun guns. Yet, tragically, the police sometimes don't use it even in these encounters.

Any encounter that presents a need to defeat personal armor is probably one justifying lethal force not non-lethal.

And any need for long range force is also likely to be best handled by a sharpshooter using lethal force if negotiation fails.

I just don't see the big market for this. Sure the military may have some special ops ideas, but they also probably already have what they want or are hard at work developing it rather than waiting for some garage tinkerer.

This patent sounds a bit like one of the many junk patents filed just to allow suing an eventual maker of a product that comes close.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I'm not sure I see a big need for a long range incapcitating round. Most law enforcement encounters are at very close range and well within the range of the proven tech of wired stun guns. Yet, tragically, the police sometimes don't use it even in these encounters.

It seems to me your thinking is geared toward law enforcement. Adventurers might not want or have opportunity to get to close quarters with their quarry. They may want to avoid killing to reduce the flak if they get caught, or it might be a condition imposed by a patron. They will not want to trudge through 120 metres of killing ground before incapacitating a sentry, and they may want to take down a fleeing but valuable quarry without a long chase to close the gap.

Just a few alternatives.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
It's the tranquilizer round as an INSTANTLY INCAPACITATING ammo that is the issue.

The tranq rounds are very high tech, and thus it has the ability to drop the target near-instantly.

Yeah, but if you have these, you don't get the opportunity to play around with high tech taser rounds.

Tranq rounds might have side-effects though, and it might take a long time for the victim to come round. With the taser you don't have to CARRY the guy into custody.

 

[far-trader]

Yep, I was seeing it more as law enforcement or civilian defense as the larger market, and hence a patentable idea for mass production. Like I said, the military probably has it or will develop it themselves. The miliatry version is what I see your PC's wanting.

But even there, to what purpose? You drop the sentry or escapee or whatever at over 100m and then what? Run all that way before they recover so they can be questioned or whatever with your idea of the quick non-lethal take down and revovery? I think the tranq will work just as well in most cases though it does have it's own issues.

I'm wondering what Corejob thinks of this

 

[Uncle Bob]

No trank is going to work faster than 15 sec-1 minute because it depends on the ciculatory system to move the drugs around the body.

 

[far-trader]

Yep, that'd be one of the other issues with tranq, too slow sometimes.

 

[Todg]

I can see a number of uses for such a long range stunner. Providing it is accurate enough, it could serve as a non-lethal alternative for police snipers.

Further, some unusual applications come to mind. Animal capture device (tranquilizers entail a certain level of risk) or even non-lethal hunting. I'm sure you all can think of many potential Traveller uses.

 

[Bob Weaver]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I'm not sure I see a big need for a long range incapcitating round. Most law enforcement encounters are at very close range and well within the range of the proven tech of wired stun guns. Yet, tragically, the police sometimes don't use it even in these encounters.
Any encounter that presents a need to defeat personal armor is probably one justifying lethal force not non-lethal.
And any need for long range force is also likely to be best handled by a sharpshooter using lethal force if negotiation fails.
I just don't see the big market for this. Sure the military may have some special ops ideas, but they also probably already have what they want or are hard at work developing it rather than waiting for some garage tinkerer.
<SNIP>

I see this kind of gear as marketed towards personal defense/home defense kind of use. Someone breaks into your house, you take them donwn without having to worry about killing your family, or the kids killing themselves with it by accident. But inside a house, or in a street mugging, range is necessarily short, so the long-range capability is irrelevant.
I agree with the sentiment others have stated that the military doesn't have much need for this type of thing either. In Traveller, if you want to take down a target at range, silently, you use a laser. They make no sound. The sound of a body crumpling to the floor is another problem.
If your problem is 'not killing' at a distance, fire low & hit your target somewhere that won't be instantly fatal. Leg wounds will stop or slow a fleeing target, and apart from BD, most body armor focuses on the torso/abdomen.
In short, this is a specialty/novelty item that fills no specific need very well. I would not bother equipping my PCs with it.

Best Regards,

Bob W

 

[stofsk]

What about sonics as a stun device?

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by stofsk:
What about sonics as a stun device?

Realistically, there's not much evidence that sonics can actually stun people (just annoy and possibly startle them) and sound is very hard to direct (a man-portable sonic device won't have a useful range of more than a few meters).

 

[Ptah]

Late to the thread...on drugs, at least in the far future, you could psotulate a tranq drug that could have all the requirements you wish.

Skin penetration can be a non-issue if you put it in a skin penetrating carrier (DMSO). Of course sealed armor will still stop it. Rapid action (seconds) can be achieved if it acts directly on nerves to first paralyze the victim (like some nerve gases). Safety is an easy one to postulate. Many drugs can be taken in a big dosage that will be effective for everyone but not kill anyone. Technically all this stuff is incredibly hard to get to work together, but hey by TL10, 11, 12, take your pick, such a drug may have been found. Interesting as well if it is derived from a naturally occuring source and the players are smuggling it.

More interesting if some find this a recreational drug as well. People rioting just to get stunned?

In practice, the drug may be loaded into pellets like paint ball capsules. You hit the target or near by to put a cloud of the stun gas in the area. It could have fun game efects if a player gets hit by one pellet in the arm. It may not stun him but may render the arm useless for a time.

Just my two credits for Monday

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, a high TL snub pistol round that combines gas and tranq...

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
One of the many problems with tranq is that the KE required to get a decent range and/or penetration makes them potentially lethal at short range.

I've seen it happen in MT, a tranq round where the player rolled a natural 12 to hit...

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Ptah:
Safety is an easy one to postulate. Many drugs can be taken in a big dosage that will be effective for everyone but not kill anyone.

Doctors wish that were true; it would make anaesthesiology much safer. Incapacitating people is inherently hard, because it's really not a natural state for humans to be in, and between differing masses and differing tolerances one person may need 10x the dose of another person, which is often more than the ratio of lethal to nonlethal dose.