Local currencies
- Thread starter parmasson
- Start date
Greetings and salutations,
Had a planet were precious metals (platinum, gold, silver, and copper) were used. I cannot recall what I called them, but it really screwwed up the players trying to trade Imperial Credits for more and explain to the locals the idea of paper money.
They only had to serve two years for conning people out of their had earned precious metals and not paying when they brought the paper money to collect what they were owed.
Had a planet were precious metals (platinum, gold, silver, and copper) were used. I cannot recall what I called them, but it really screwwed up the players trying to trade Imperial Credits for more and explain to the locals the idea of paper money.
They only had to serve two years for conning people out of their had earned precious metals and not paying when they brought the paper money to collect what they were owed.
The thing to remember is there are 2 exchange rates: one reflects how much 'currency x' buys 1 unit of 'currency y', the other describes the relative buying power of currency y in its locale.
In the real world the latter (called Purchase Parity Power) is calculated as how much local currency is needed to buy a basket of goods that in the US costs USD 1000.
In game terms you can use the Traveller merchant rules to calculate the value of a local credit in relation to the Imperial credit, then multiply the local credit by a random number to convert to the local currency unit. For further detail you can vary the random number up and down from its starting point to simulate exchange rate fluctuations. (How much fluctuation depends on the volitility of the local economy.)
Regards PLST
In the real world the latter (called Purchase Parity Power) is calculated as how much local currency is needed to buy a basket of goods that in the US costs USD 1000.
In game terms you can use the Traveller merchant rules to calculate the value of a local credit in relation to the Imperial credit, then multiply the local credit by a random number to convert to the local currency unit. For further detail you can vary the random number up and down from its starting point to simulate exchange rate fluctuations. (How much fluctuation depends on the volitility of the local economy.)
Regards PLST
You´d also have to distinguish the exchange rates "Local to Credits" and "Credits to Local"; there´s going to be a difference between these to guarantee the exchanging institute´s profits, and to provide a safety margin for losses associated with that currency.
For example, right now you might be able to buy 1.25 US-$ for 1 Euro, but have to pay 1.28 US-$ to get 1 Euro. For a weeker currency, 1 US-$ may buy you about 5 Krivna (spelling? - Ukrainian currency) but you´d have to pay, say, 8 or 10 Krivna to get 1 US-$.
Finally, there´ll be countries that don´t allow you to import foreign currency (that is, they force you to convert you money at a government institution, placing the hard foreign cash in their coffers), or currencies that are so weak no institution is going to buy them at any reasonable rate.
For example, right now you might be able to buy 1.25 US-$ for 1 Euro, but have to pay 1.28 US-$ to get 1 Euro. For a weeker currency, 1 US-$ may buy you about 5 Krivna (spelling? - Ukrainian currency) but you´d have to pay, say, 8 or 10 Krivna to get 1 US-$.
Finally, there´ll be countries that don´t allow you to import foreign currency (that is, they force you to convert you money at a government institution, placing the hard foreign cash in their coffers), or currencies that are so weak no institution is going to buy them at any reasonable rate.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Possibly MTU but...
Imperial Credits are accepted at all operating Imperial Starports (basically A through D) for Starport services.
Most worlds will provide an exchange at the Starport to change local currency and Imp Creds, for a commission of course, both ways. However outside the Starport you will may have to deal in local currency. You might find a black market currency exchange where you can get a lot more local currency for your Imp Creds, but turning the local currency back into Imp Creds will be impossible on the black market and could raise flags at the official exchanges.
Further, it would be very rare that one planet would accept another planet's local currency. It would usually be worthless anywhere but the originating world.
Imperial Credits are accepted at all operating Imperial Starports (basically A through D) for Starport services.
Most worlds will provide an exchange at the Starport to change local currency and Imp Creds, for a commission of course, both ways. However outside the Starport you will may have to deal in local currency. You might find a black market currency exchange where you can get a lot more local currency for your Imp Creds, but turning the local currency back into Imp Creds will be impossible on the black market and could raise flags at the official exchanges.
Further, it would be very rare that one planet would accept another planet's local currency. It would usually be worthless anywhere but the originating world.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
That all depends on the form of the currency. Paper would generally be useless, yes. Lanthanum, OTOH....
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
True. Currency is generally presumed to be "paper" money, often backed by specie. Specie would be your hard currency, usually rare metals or gemstones, I don't think lanthanum* will do
* While it is a rare earth element, it does not mean rare as in "not abundant" though. It varies, some are harder to find, some are more plentiful than lead. I don't think we want a specie more common than lead just because ancient man thought it was "rare"
Likewise many of the currently rare, this time meaning not abundant, real world metals are not so rare once we have cheap space travel.
So what would make a good interstellar specie? Well other than Imp Creds of course, which are backed not by rare specie but by interstellar military might.
* While it is a rare earth element, it does not mean rare as in "not abundant" though. It varies, some are harder to find, some are more plentiful than lead. I don't think we want a specie more common than lead just because ancient man thought it was "rare"
Likewise many of the currently rare, this time meaning not abundant, real world metals are not so rare once we have cheap space travel.
So what would make a good interstellar specie? Well other than Imp Creds of course, which are backed not by rare specie but by interstellar military might.
I disagree about “paper” banknotes being worthless off world. Planets that had a close trading relationship would exchange their currencies. The further away you got the less valuable it would become. Look at earth today, your Zimbabwe dollar is not worth much but it can be exchanged for something on the open market.
Most importantly Hortalez et Cie will have branches on nearly every world worth a damn and you can be sure that they will have values and rates of exchange for payment for local notes vs. ImCr.
Most importantly Hortalez et Cie will have branches on nearly every world worth a damn and you can be sure that they will have values and rates of exchange for payment for local notes vs. ImCr.
An idea . . .
#1 A local merchant 1 on planet A needs to pay bill to merchant 2 on planet B.
He can take Ob10,000 of his local Obtars to Hortalez et Cie who will exchange them into ImCr and transfer the amount to Planet B.
#2 Or he could pay directly out of his ImCr account at his bank.
#3 Or if a person were to happen to “acquire” a suitcase with Ob10,000 but had to get off world due to a misunderstanding he could exchange them for the going rate at the starport’s Hortalez et Cie branch one system over. HeC charges a fee and then either electronically or physically transfers the value back to Planet A. Again the value of the Planet A notes would decrease as the distance increased.
Backwater planets are a different story.
I see #1 as the most comm. Local currency interaction for business.
I see #3 happening with characters.
#1 A local merchant 1 on planet A needs to pay bill to merchant 2 on planet B.
He can take Ob10,000 of his local Obtars to Hortalez et Cie who will exchange them into ImCr and transfer the amount to Planet B.
#2 Or he could pay directly out of his ImCr account at his bank.
#3 Or if a person were to happen to “acquire” a suitcase with Ob10,000 but had to get off world due to a misunderstanding he could exchange them for the going rate at the starport’s Hortalez et Cie branch one system over. HeC charges a fee and then either electronically or physically transfers the value back to Planet A. Again the value of the Planet A notes would decrease as the distance increased.
Backwater planets are a different story.
I see #1 as the most comm. Local currency interaction for business.
I see #3 happening with characters.
archhealer
SOC-12
Don't forget to account for distance and travel time, here. An agency might exist that specializes in exchanging various currencies, but the farther from the home system you get, the more out of date their info is. If you're six or more parsex away, the information you have on that currency may be months old, and if you trade for it then, who knows what'll happen in the intervening months before you can convert it back into something more useful.
A lot can happen to a currency in a few months. Hell, the world government that issued it could collapse, rendering it utterly worthless.
A lot can happen to a currency in a few months. Hell, the world government that issued it could collapse, rendering it utterly worthless.
Surely the Imperial credit system would exist purely as an electronic balance that could be drawn on, perhaps using a biometric card (TL8/9+). In which case, local exchanges at a starport would draw against this balance.
Alternatively, a balance of money could be deposited with the Travellers Aid Society, which could be drawn on at any local office. The Knights Templar provided this service at their temples for travellers to the holy lands in the middle ages.
Alternatively, a balance of money could be deposited with the Travellers Aid Society, which could be drawn on at any local office. The Knights Templar provided this service at their temples for travellers to the holy lands in the middle ages.
"Surely the Imperial credit system would exist purely as an electronic balance . . ."
I think that Imperial Credits as banknotes still exist as late as MegaTraveller. Yes electronic exists but nothing sparks the imagination of a couple of PCs like a suitcase full of cold hard cash.
Cash makes bribery easier. ON world opening a bank account might make sense but considering the communications lag and my personal prejudice toward the stuff IMTU it is a common sight at any starport.
I think that Imperial Credits as banknotes still exist as late as MegaTraveller. Yes electronic exists but nothing sparks the imagination of a couple of PCs like a suitcase full of cold hard cash.
Cash makes bribery easier. ON world opening a bank account might make sense but considering the communications lag and my personal prejudice toward the stuff IMTU it is a common sight at any starport.Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
1) Cash will ALWAYS exist, as long as there are bribes to be made.
2) How in the world are debit cards (seems to be what Valarian is contemplating) going to work? How long will it take for a debit to appear in your account? If you maintain the balance on the card, that will involve massive, easy fraud. Unless you use a Cymbeline chip...
3) I don't think anybody would exchange money beyond a certain J-distance. Your info would just be too far out of date to be useful for exchange rates. Ancient peoples carried their trade monies in cold, hard cash for that reason.
4) Lanthanum would be valuable because it is the prime component of jump grids. And, it's just rare enough to make it valuable.
5) What would make a good specie? Almost anything we use now: gold, silver, various gems. All these things have value in a high-tech society (computer connections, chips, lasers, small displays, etc.) and have their standard "shinyness" factor on barbarian worlds.
Also, certain spices might be valuable. They are foodstuffs, and probably have very special characteristics, can be transported in a dried/cake form (so they don't spoil), and can be measured in small quantities to make change.
6) TAS would be the closest thing to an Imperium-wide bank, I think (at least, OTU). A TAS membership would mean you are good for a certain amount of credit (which would be on your TAS membership card).
This is the way banks worked (for those who had enough money to need a bank!) 200 years ago. You would deposit your money with one bank. Then, you would carry a letter of credit with you, good for a certain amount of cash. Once you deposited that credit note at a local bank, you could draw upon that credit until exhausted, or until you left. If you didn't exhaust it, you could have the local bank write a new letter of credit for the amount remaining to take to the next destination. The local bank could then settle with the original bank for the amount used (the whole thing if they wrote a new letter of credit for you).
This provides the mechanism for Edmond Dantes' revenge on one person in The Count of Monte Cristo. Well, that, and the fact that he could interfere in the news system to spook speculators.
2) How in the world are debit cards (seems to be what Valarian is contemplating) going to work? How long will it take for a debit to appear in your account? If you maintain the balance on the card, that will involve massive, easy fraud. Unless you use a Cymbeline chip...
3) I don't think anybody would exchange money beyond a certain J-distance. Your info would just be too far out of date to be useful for exchange rates. Ancient peoples carried their trade monies in cold, hard cash for that reason.
4) Lanthanum would be valuable because it is the prime component of jump grids. And, it's just rare enough to make it valuable.
5) What would make a good specie? Almost anything we use now: gold, silver, various gems. All these things have value in a high-tech society (computer connections, chips, lasers, small displays, etc.) and have their standard "shinyness" factor on barbarian worlds.
Also, certain spices might be valuable. They are foodstuffs, and probably have very special characteristics, can be transported in a dried/cake form (so they don't spoil), and can be measured in small quantities to make change.
6) TAS would be the closest thing to an Imperium-wide bank, I think (at least, OTU). A TAS membership would mean you are good for a certain amount of credit (which would be on your TAS membership card).
This is the way banks worked (for those who had enough money to need a bank!) 200 years ago. You would deposit your money with one bank. Then, you would carry a letter of credit with you, good for a certain amount of cash. Once you deposited that credit note at a local bank, you could draw upon that credit until exhausted, or until you left. If you didn't exhaust it, you could have the local bank write a new letter of credit for the amount remaining to take to the next destination. The local bank could then settle with the original bank for the amount used (the whole thing if they wrote a new letter of credit for you).
This provides the mechanism for Edmond Dantes' revenge on one person in The Count of Monte Cristo. Well, that, and the fact that he could interfere in the news system to spook speculators.
archhealer
SOC-12
As for what to use as currency, at a certain point you begin using goods that will vary depending on where you are, then you get right back into the credit/value trade goods model.
I mean, a cargoload of cabbages may not seem very valuable, but to that asteroid colony on the rim...
I mean, a cargoload of cabbages may not seem very valuable, but to that asteroid colony on the rim...
"How in the world are debit cards (seems to be what Valarian is contemplating) going to work? How long will it take for a debit to appear in your account?"
I'm working from the T20 book - I think somewhere in there it says that the account balance is held on your personal comm and is (supposedly) safe from forgery or fraud.
"You would deposit your money with one bank. Then, you would carry a letter of credit with you, good for a certain amount of cash. Once you deposited that credit note at a local bank, you could draw upon that credit until exhausted, or until you left. If you didn't exhaust it, you could have the local bank write a new letter of credit for the amount remaining to take to the next destination"
This is the system I was trying to allude to (using TAS offices instead of banks) - similar to the Knights Templar. You make your deposit at a temple (TAS office), they then give you documentation to say you're entitled to draw that amount at your destination.
I'm working from the T20 book - I think somewhere in there it says that the account balance is held on your personal comm and is (supposedly) safe from forgery or fraud.
"You would deposit your money with one bank. Then, you would carry a letter of credit with you, good for a certain amount of cash. Once you deposited that credit note at a local bank, you could draw upon that credit until exhausted, or until you left. If you didn't exhaust it, you could have the local bank write a new letter of credit for the amount remaining to take to the next destination"
This is the system I was trying to allude to (using TAS offices instead of banks) - similar to the Knights Templar. You make your deposit at a temple (TAS office), they then give you documentation to say you're entitled to draw that amount at your destination.
In some regions in the Himalaya, people used (or still use?) bricks pressed from tea leaves as currency.
And in the time following WW2, when the German economy had pretty much broken down, people in some places used cigarettes as a currency, or at least as a standard against which prices were measured.
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