Let's Speak Zhodani!

[robject]

I'm looking for possible meanings for the Zhodani words in the "Light"-class cruisers and frigates. Any suggestions?

Each of these ends with -va, a particle meaning "light". I *would* think that a couple of these words are therefore starlight and sunlight. But, star, apparently, is "vlezh", which puts a neat little twist on the names of "Light" cruisers, since there's no cruiser named Vlezhva. Sounds horrible anyway.

SO: Perhaps "moonlight" isn't a gentle and pretty concept to the Zhodani. Since the obvious "starlight" isn't in the list, I take these terms to not be a simple "<noun> + light", but rather to be mostly independent light-related terms.

Here are my word-assignments. I have no idea if this is what I want them to be.

Alekrva: Nova (alekr: new)
Brnava: Blaze of Glory (brna: glorious blazing)
Doruva: Brilliant Dawn (doru: brilliant morning)
Jadsva: Divine Radiance (jads: divine radiance)
Jirtodva: Plasma Fire (jirtod: burning plasma)
Loyhva: Pulsar (loyh: pulsar)
Mielrva: Solar Flare (mielr: solar flare)
Uturva: Piercing Ray (utur: focused and stabbing)

Similar to these are the Tiaflfiet ships. These seem to be a bit more idiomatic.

Anfiet: "Sight of will" (maybe we'd call it strength of will or willpower)
Kiatlfiet: "Target sight", i.e. focused
Proprfiet: "Battle perspective"
Qazdifiet: "Sight from above", i.e. attacking from high ground
Shanfiet: something-view/sight
Shtane'fiet: something-view/sight
Tiaflfiet: Farsight
Tlenchifiet: something-view/sight
Zdieshfiet: something-view/sight

 

[robject]

A Tiny Bit of Zhodani Grammar

I am using the Zhodani corpus to create some short, simple phrases for a client. As a result I am extending said corpus slightly, to expose a grammatical element, so I can express these phrases. Your comments are welcome.

The phrase structure is sort-of a genitive... maybe you can call it a descriptive, where a noun is modified by another noun. Not an adjective really. Somewhat like a possessive, and somewhat like a preposition. One example phrase is "lord of moons".

I'm approaching this by:

(1) putting the "object" first: the moon. /shiv/.
(2) pluralizing it: moons. /shivdoj/.
(3) adding a possessive: "their" moons (as opposed to ours, or yours). /shivdojqr/.

That's the first word. Next:

(4) the verb "to rule". I'll use /deste'/, even though it may not be correct.
(5) adding a nominalizing suffix pronoun /(a)bl/ "he/she/it does it". /destabl/.

Final phrase: /shivdojqr destabl/, their-moons ruler.

This gives me a structure that supports descriptive phrases, possessive phrases, and prepositional phrases -- a decent chunk of grammatical space in one rule -- like Mesoamerican languages, but using suffixes instead of prefixes, like Georgian.

 

[Gadrin]

Nothing that well thought out for me, since I only scratched the
surface of it...

*****************************************************************
Note: strangely lacking in GT: AR1 p38 the Zhodani Calendar would
be the Zhodani equivalent of a week, mainly due to Traveller's
preoccupation with a week in jumpspace. We'll take the opportunity
to coin the phrase: CHEKLZAZHD, "Jump Time" or "Jump Period" for the
period of ~168 hours, or 6.22 Zhdanstial (days). 
*****************************************************************

Finding the Fidfrek Tlesh -- "White World"

So "CHEKLZAZHD" would be a compound word or could be.


and I need things like:

Fidfrek Tlesh = White World, Abresh Sector, Zone of Barren Worlds,
approximately 4400 parsecs  Rimward of Vlanchiets Qlom

mainly "Zone of Barren Worlds". I'd have to re-read the Core FAQ with Marc
Miller and see who actually coined that phrase, since it would have to
be Zhodani in origin.


and

Twenty weeks back is Zhdediekl, the 42nd Expeditionary Base, Ienza
Sector, Fourth Rift, approximately 4480 parsecs Rimward of
Vlanchiets Qlom.

Zhdediekl isn't word for word equal to "42nd Expeditionary Base" but an approximation for something
like an outpost or area that's been upgraded or technologized (so to speak) for military purposes.

>

 

[robject]

"CHEKLZAZHD" would be a compound word or could be.


and I need things like: "Zone of Barren Worlds".

Marc and Cliff both used that term, I think.

Zhdediekl: an approximation for something like an outpost or area that's been upgraded or technologized (so to speak) for military purposes.

/Chekl/, some term relating to jump, + /zazhd/, some noun relating to time. I bet /chekl/ is an adjective... but what's the root? /Che/? I doubt it. /Echak/? /Chekel/? Probably something like one of those. Once we know that, we'll be able to posit roots for "barren", and be able to lay out some derivational rules.

"Zone of Barren Worlds" will use the possessive construct: "barren" (noun or adjective or stative?) + the term for "world" + plural + possessed ("his/her/its"), then the word for "zone".

/Zhdediekl/... again that -kl ending, suggesting a mechanically similar root construction to /chekl/. So the entire compound word there could be an adjective itself, i.e. "upgraded advance", i.e. a "zhdediekl base" as in an upgraded advance or forward base.

Let's assume that's one word with a couple of suffixes.

/zhde/: advance, in front, plow ahead
/-di/: improvement, markedness, something...
/-(e)kl/: there's that adjective marker again

 

[Gadrin]

:rofl:


My logic for choosing those words was:

Run my language script and generate X words.

Choose the ones that were the easiest to spell and pronounce.

I can't stand those Aslan words. Looking at some of them in the
books is ridiculous. Waay too long and unpronouncable for a game.

>

 

[robject]

My logic for choosing those words was:

Run my language script and generate X words.

Choose the ones that were the easiest to spell and pronounce.

I can't stand those Aslan words. Looking at some of them in the
books is ridiculous. Waay too long and unpronouncable for a game.

>

Agreed. The words should look "appropriate". And Aslan words look like someone's gargling fish.

I found the lone reference to a root production in Expedition to Zhodane, p42.

-nad ("-er", as in Tliaqrnad, or miller, from Tliaqre', "to grind grain").

So the root would be /tliaqr/, maybe the base noun "mill".
The verb would be the root + /e'/.
The actor noun (perhaps animate) would be the root + /nad/.
The adjective could (in some cases) be /tliaqar/, "mill-ish" or "grinding" or whatever.

So /chekl/ is probably "jumpspace".

 

[BeRKA]

I just wanted to say that I have noticed this interesting thread.

 

[Gadrin]

So /chekl/ is probably "jumpspace".

I tend to think in broader terms so it might refer to

"region beyond our world"

which is a concept rather than an exact word for word translation.

That way I don't have to develop a dictionary with cognomials
and so on.

Did I say cognomials ?

>

 

[Gadrin]

I always laugh like hell in Star Trek Enterprise: Broken Bow ptI when
they're at the "language school" and they've got a group of actors
going: "Hooky-booky-pooky-manooky". Just makes me crack up.

Oooh, that's something special. Faking language. Wow, I'm sold.

"All together now...Hooky-booky-pooky-manooky".:rofl:

 

[robject]

I just wanted to say that I have noticed this interesting thread.

Ah yes, that would make sense. Thanks. Your suggestions are welcome, by the way.

 

[robject]

I tend to think in broader terms so it might refer to

"region beyond our world"

Mmmm, so the phrase would be a rather bulky "time to the region beyond our world". Rather too abstract to be useful. I suggest, if it means "yonder" in the sense of planetary distances, then the sense of interstellar distance has also been attached to it (and therefore jump distances).

 

[Gadrin]

That's why I don't bother too much with it

"Hooky, booky, pooky, manooky!" :rofl:

>

 

[robject]

That's why I don't bother too much with it

"Hooky, booky, pooky, manooky!" :rofl:

>

Likewise... I'm only doing as much as necessary to get what I want. I'm not in the mood to do a whole grammar.

 

[FreeTrav]

Consider that -va and -fiet may actually mean something like "ship named...", similar to the Japanese "... maru", i.e., Kobayashi Maru == "ship named Kobayashi". And Fuso, truck - Mitsubishi Fuso, the truck division of the Mitsubishi automotive company.

So if the Alekrva et cetera are light cruisers, and the Anfiet et cetera are battleships, then -va and -fiet might mean "cruiser" and "battleship" respectively.

 

[robject]

Consider that -va and -fiet may actually mean something like "ship named...", similar to the Japanese "... maru", i.e., Kobayashi Maru == "ship named Kobayashi". And Fuso, truck - Mitsubishi Fuso, the truck division of the Mitsubishi automotive company.

So if the Alekrva et cetera are light cruisers, and the Anfiet et cetera are battleships, then -va and -fiet might mean "cruiser" and "battleship" respectively.

Good deductive reasoning.

From my vague readings of the adventures where the Shivva is mentioned, I believe that /shiv/ means 'moon' and /va/ means 'light', although I'm not positive.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Maru?

Consider that -va and -fiet may actually mean something like "ship named...", similar to the Japanese "... maru", i.e., Kobayashi Maru == "ship named Kobayashi". /ka-snip/

I thought Maru meant City of?