Language

[kafka47]

I know at one time there was a listserv for language issues in the Imperium and beyond but I was never a member so I don't know if this ever got discussed.

Very early in Traveller's history I was always impressed by the Vilani heroglphys everywhere along with the Anglic description. For me, this was what the future was all about. As I grew older, I sort of neglected the Vilani in favor of using only the Anglic.

Now (10 yrs later) in a moment of inspiration, I wondered why the Vilani was retained after the ROM surely most worlds would have been subject to Solomanization (akin to Finlandization) by the victorious Terrans. At first, I thought Vilani would still remain the vernacular on many worlds because the large Vilani populations. Then I thought of it as akin to Latin in the Middle Ages - the high language of culture, science, power and religion leaving the vernacular (whatever they may be) for the common folk. Then I thought it might been part of the Historic Compromise in Milieu 0 for Sylean Federation to gain access to Vilani technology and manpower (which never truly collapsed during the ROM just contracted to around the Vland Domain).

Then in a moment, I went back to idea of the Anglic being vernacular, a kind of Cockney or Northern Ireland speech spoke by the masses and (High, Middle, Low) Vilani spoken as the language of power thus retaining a measure of bilingualism throughout the Empire and assuring Vilani bureaucrats are always hired. And, I rather like that Anglic would have very different inflections than American English (as suggested by the MT Library Data).

How have others seen it? I would be interested in hearing how the language issue has played out in your games.

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by kafka47:
I know at one time there was a listserv for language issues in the Imperium and beyond but I was never a member so I don't know if this ever got discussed.

Traveller Culture list

Originally posted by kafka47:

How have others seen it? I would be interested in hearing how the language issue has played out in your games.

I suppose it depends upon how you think the Vilani culture has infected conquered worlds throughout the system. Rather than being one way or the other, I suspect there would be a "wave" effect.

First, as the Terran invaders arrive, the powerful Vilani, seeking to keep their power learn the Terran languages and script. This would trickle down to the the lower and lower classes over a generation or so. Then on some world or another, the Vilani powerful, seeing their culture being corrupted, reasserts their Vilani language, which again trickles down to the larger population. I've not seen anything that the ROM asserted an English/Anglic only policy, and probably wouldn't have been able to enforce it.

If you want a real world example of how this may work, take a look at Quebec, Canada and northern New England. Quebec is french and has strongly asserted this by requiring the use of dual language signs throughout Canada. In response, many signs and businesses are in french through the area in an attempt to attract their business.

Another real world example would be the use of spanish throughout the US, particualrly along the US/Mexican border.

In either case, I would see various worlds, ususally the high population ones, assert one or the other (Vilani or Terran) and the "One true way" which influences all the neighboring worlds.

I tend to gloss over the language issues like this, unless it will be significant in some manner (like a world controlled by Bwats for example) that the players would notice.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

From Marc:

I have been working on a Canadian style language structure for the Imperium: co-equal languages Anglic and Vilani, but within regions one or the other predominates. Traditionally, ship (and military markings) are in Vilani.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
From Marc:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I have been working on a Canadian style language structure for the Imperium: co-equal languages Anglic and Vilani, but within regions one or the other predominates.

</font>[/QUOTE]So the Vilani are basically interstellar Quebecois? I can see the endless political arguments about "Free Vland!" now

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems a bit weird that the languages of the First and Second Imperiums should still be so important, and yet Sylean culture counts for nothing (despite being where the Third Imperium started from).

 

[Andrew Boulton]

The RoM couldn't overcome thousands of years of Vilani culture, so they ended up with a Vilani/Terran mix, and the remains of this was still there when the 3I began recontacting worlds.

ISTR a lot of native Sylean culture had been stamped out by the Vilani & Terrans.

 

[epicenter00]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Then in a moment, I went back to idea of the Anglic being vernacular, a kind of Cockney or Northern Ireland speech spoke by the masses and (High, Middle, Low) Vilani spoken as the language of power thus retaining a measure of bilingualism throughout the Empire and assuring Vilani bureaucrats are always hired. And, I rather like that Anglic would have very different inflections than American English (as suggested by the MT Library Data).

Cultures have remarkable abilities to endure - and some cultures seem to have better staying power than others. For instance, even during European colonialism, the Chinese didn't all start speaking European languages, nor did they abandon Chinese characters in favor of syllabaries.

I've always seen Vilani culture as very much like China or Egypt - extremely conservative cultures that we might think of as static or decadent, but who's very traditionalism also makes it so that people will continue to practice some rituals and traditions, even if others are abandoned. Not everyone runs to adopt the practices of the new and different, and the Vilani would be predisposed to be against such innovation. Often, conquerors find they have to specifically target certain rituals and practices to cease them being practiced.

Indeed, I think you could take the opposite view of the Terrans and see as the Mongols, to the Vilani being China. The Terrans conquer, they put in their satraps to rule the Vilani Empire, shake the things up that interest them, and leave everything else of Vilani culture alone. It's entirely possible that within a few decades, it might have been the Terran satraps dressing like Vilani, speaking Vilani, and practicing Vilani customs, and raising kids who think of themselves as Vilani in deed if not in word.

Obviously the above is a simplistic view, but entirely possible that both extremes occurred in RoM, though like in most cases, on any given world, things would probably tend towards a median. During the Long Night, for instance, Terran languages might have truly become like Latin. Since Terran tech was more advanced than the Vilani, scientific journals might all have been written in English, with Vilani scientists required to learn read and write English. Since there were no more actual English speakers around (the Terran satraps long having been assimilated into the Vilani population), English would be a "dead" language - a specialized and unchanging language used purely for the discourse of scientific terms. It's possible that Scouts from the Third Imperium would find that linguistic drift of Vilani language on many worlds would make it so that it's impossible to understand two speakers who thought they were speaking Vilani. However, get a blackboard, and start typing out in 22nd Century English and the scientists of a world might understand you well enough to at least communicate. (Of course, if Vilani 'hieroglyphs' were ideograms, such things would be unecessary, like modern Cantonese and Mandarin speakers - just write it out and they'll understand.)

 

[robject]

epicenter's thoughts sound reasonable to me.

 

[Ranger]

As to ship markings, given that much of the ROM fleet was probably made up of Vilani ships that surrendered and werw crewed by Vilani that agreed to serve the new government, and that new ships and crews were built and recruited locally, it makes sense that much of the ROM fleet still had Vilani language markings. I would imagine that only in and around Sol and the new capital would there be many ships with English markings. Then, fast forward to the Solomani Rim War, and I would bet the majority of fleets that went over to the Sloliman side were the ones with English markings. Vilani markins would then become a sign of loyalty to the 3I.

Just my musings on the topic.